Election: Fianna Fáil - pretending we don't remember

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's a headline from that time every day between now and the election :P

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-fury-as-noonan-says-young-emigrate-for-lifestyle-26813027.html

Shefwedfan

One of the major players in the bust was the Central Bank. They did not cover the Banks at all......

The Central Bank was under control with former CEO Philip Lane. He was a steady hand. FG went to replace Lane and came up with Gabriel Makhlouf....someone who everyone has recommended not to hire but FG ploughed ahead.

I will leave you to google this guy but lets just say he is not someone I would be comfortable with running our Banking Regulator.

Kermit.de.frog

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Micheal Noonan said young people like to go aboard for experience, i'll have a look for the article.

Got it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-fury-as-noonan-says-young-emigrate-for-lifestyle-26813027.html

Mindless whataboutery.

Fianna Fáil destroyed this country through incompetence and worse than incompetence.

You and anyone else should be ashamed defending it.

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's a headline from that time every day between now and the election :P

If 10 year old headlines need to be used to fight an election, i can only assume FG is worried. I suppose it's hard to target FF of the present when FG have been in bed with them for the last years.

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Mindless whataboutery.

Fianna Fáil destroyed this country through incompetence and worse than incompetence.

You and anyone else should be ashamed defending it.

It's not whataboutery though, the article didn't misrepresent Noonan, he said it. Do you really think either party gives a fcuk about Irish people having to leave?
FF so incompetent yet FG relied on them for confidence and supply for the last four years. No escaping that lad no matter what headlines you throw up . Although see can you find one that agrees with your claim that FF collapsed the banks. ;-)

Kermit.de.frog

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not whataboutery though, the article didn't misrepresent Noonan, he said it. Do you really think either party gives a fcuk about Irish people having to leave?
FF so incompetent yet FG relied on them for confidence and supply for the last four years. No escaping that lad no matter what headlines you throw up . Although see can you find one that agrees with your claim that FF collapsed the banks. ;-)

This is the stereotypical Irish voter folks.

Pack your bags now.

It's hopeless :rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is the stereotypical Irish voter folks.

Pack your bags now.

It's hopeless :rolleyes:

What because I don't think there's any difference between FF and FG? There really isn't though and pretending there is...well its delusional.
Anyhoo keep up with 10 year old headlines, the ones I reply with will be far more recent. ;-)

Kermit.de.frog

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What because I don't think there's any difference between FF and FG? There really isn't though and pretending there is...well its delusional.
Anyhoo keep up with 10 year old headlines, the ones I reply with will be far more recent. ;-)

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/dail-bar-drinking-tds-drunk-abortion-vote-989988-Jul2013/?amp=1


At least Cowen wasn't p*ssed during the Dail vote, lap dance anyone?

I told you no difference, well a slight one.

Kermit.de.frog

It's stunning the depth to which Fianna Fáilers will go defending the indefensible.

I'm not even pro Fine Gael...i'm pro the most competent party least likely to lead us in to disaster.

That is NOT Fianna Fáil.

Wanderer78

Ff will do just fine, they'll more than likely be in government or be in government (confidence and supply)

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's stunning the depth to which Fianna Fáilers will go defending the indefensible.

I'm not even pro Fine Gael...i'm pro the most competent party least likely to lead us in to disaster.

That is NOT Fianna Fáil.

Told you lad I don't support either but this narrative of FF bad and FG good is bs. They are both equally crap, one just had more of an opportunity to prove how crap they are.

Kermit.de.frog

Pat Rabbitte nailing Fianna Fáil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sioK9Fcek

Bullocks

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ff will do just fine, they'll more than likely be in government or be in government (confidence and supply)

Would ff/FG use the confidence and supply again? I suppose its better than one of them not being in power

_Kaiser_

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Pat Rabitte nailing Fianna Fáil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sioK9Fcek

Pat Rabbite on election promises...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAS0c5AkiNg

Plumbthedepths

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Pat Rabitte nailing Fianna Fáil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sioK9Fcek

Will I post the one of Pat Rabitte admitting to telling lies during election campaigns? Fun fact the two Pat's were very good friends.

Wanderer78

Bullocks wrote:

Would ff/FG use the confidence and supply again? I suppose its better than one of them not being in power

Wouldn't surprise me in the least, David mcwilliams is spot on, they're like two drunken buddies, proping each other up

Loafing Oaf

Bullocks wrote: »

Would ff/FG use the confidence and supply again? I suppose its better than one of them not being in power

Varadkar has already said he would be prepared to support a minority FF government. Not sure about the other way round.

Winning_Stroke

I'm not excusing FF *BUT* remember how massively popular they were, any party advocating caution or aiming to stop the ways were heading would have obliterated in the elections of the 2000s. Again not excusing FF *BUT* the public were very quick to divest themselves of any blame. I wish Facebook and Twitter had been around from 2001/2 so that we'd have a track record of the people cheering them on versus painting them as the Devil a decade later.

Wanderer78

Loafing Oaf wrote:

Varadkar has already said he would be prepared to support a minority FF government. Not sure about the other way round.

No fear there, being in government or being in government is irresistible to both parties

StupidLikeAFox

Some historical stories relevant to Michael Martin specifically:

So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin? -
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

Ministers on €140,000 in triple pension deal - this is from 2009 so it may have gone up in the meantime
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ministers-on-140000-in-triple-pension-deal-26531706.html

Martin plan backfires as he clings to €90,000 deal - a nice 90k severance package he picked up when the country was going south
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/latest-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-90000-deal-26673362.html

Loafing Oaf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

No fear there, being in government or being in government is irresistible to both parties

Would FF be happy to prop up another minority FG government if the latter were again the largest party (I'm aware this is an increasingly unlikely scenario)? Wouldn't be popular with the membership anyway...

Wanderer78

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Would FF be happy to prop up another minority FG government if the latter were again the largest party (I'm aware this is an increasingly unlikely scenario)? Wouldn't be popular with the membership anyway...

that is highly questionable alright, but i expect fg to get a little kicking this time around, opening the door for ff, and since theyre good drinking buddies, i suspect both will be grand after this one

nkl12xtw5goz70

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Fianna Fáil destroyed this country...

Okay, let's face the reality that they didn't actually "destroy the country." That kind of rhetoric is pure hyperbole. Ireland went through some difficult years, as did other countries during the financial crisis, but by 2014 it was back to being the fastest growing economy in the European Union.

Of course there are problems — extortionate personal taxation, extremely high national debt, a housing crisis — but there have always been problems.

For their many shortcomings, the populist parties of FF and FG are the only realistic options for semi-competent governance in Ireland. Putting the far left in power would make the 2009–14 crisis look like a teddy bears' picnic.

I'm entirely alive to the many failings of Fianna Fail in the 2000s. At this point, though, FG have been in power since February 2011 and are now running for a third term — which mirrors the position of FF by 2007. History teaches us that when one party has been in power for too long, they tend to become complacent, self-satisfied, and convinced of their invincibility.

Because FF is the only realistic option to replace FG, we either have to resign ourselves to perpetual FG rule, or go back to alternating FF/FG-led governments, as has been the case throughout the history of the state. The latter state of affairs is much healthier than FG in perpetual power and FF in perpetual exile.

Plumbthedepths

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Some historical stories relevant to Michael Martin specifically:

So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin? -
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

Ministers on €140,000 in triple pension deal - this is from 2009 so it may have gone up in the meantime
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ministers-on-140000-in-triple-pension-deal-26531706.html

Martin plan backfires as he clings to €90,000 deal - a nice 90k severance package he picked up when the country was going south
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/latest-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-90000-deal-26673362.html

Enda give up his teachers position after he crossed the 20 year threshold for a teacher's pension.
I remember Phil Hogan refusing to take a voluntary cut in wage during the height of the recession, something along the lines of his 'circumstances not allowing it' workers didn't have the same option as Phil.
Enda still claiming full attendance expenses in the Dail yet away on speaking engagements on the same day as signed in the Dail.
You're really not showing a difference between them tbh. No more so than the other lad.

Wanderer78

Caroline Curved Cardboard wrote: »

Okay, let's face the reality that they didn't actually "destroy the country." That kind of rhetoric is pure hyperbole. Ireland went through some difficult years, as did other countries during the financial crisis, but by 2014 it was back to being the fastest growing economy in the European Union.

Of course there are problems — extortionate personal taxation, extremely high national debt, a housing crisis — but there have always been problems.

For their many shortcomings, the populist parties of FF and FG are the only realistic options for semi-competent governance in Ireland. Putting the far left in power would make the 2009–14 crisis look like a teddy bears' picnic.

I'm entirely alive to the many failings of Fianna Fail in the 2000s. At this point, though, FG have been in power since February 2011 and are now running for a third term — which mirrors the position of FF by 2007. History teaches us that when one party has been in power for too long, they tend to become complacent, self-satisfied, and convinced of their invincibility.

Because FF is the only realistic option to replace FG, we either have to resign ourselves to perpetual FG rule, or go back to alternating FF/FG-led governments, as has been the case throughout the history of the state. The latter state of affairs is much healthier than FG in perpetual power and FF in perpetual exile.

while we re fact checking, the global financial sector played a major role in destroying the country, by flooding the planet with cheap credit etc etc etc, helped of course by political parties such as ff

relax, the far left will probably never be in power in ireland, as theres really only a handful of them anyway, and theyre useless, our political system is effectively blocked by both ff and fg, so its either ff and/or fg, so really, relax, nothing is really gonna change here

jmreire

ectoraige wrote: »

Yes, they are, an institutional political party like FF takes generations to change no matter what internal restructuring is done.

It was Fianna Fáil who in 2002 removed the need to include social and affordable housing within new developments to allow developers to be able to push up the prices of their exclusives projects and lead to further ghettoisation of socially deprived areas. This was long before any financial crisis and is still a factor in today's housing crisis.

Qoute:- Being hit by the housing crisis is one thing, but their reaction was to assume ALL debts of the financial institutions who had gambled with our economy. Unquote.

Even Brussels were surprised by the extent of Fianna Fail's acceptance of this level of responsibility...they hadn't asked for it. But in Cuirt an Mean Oiche, all was decided,and not one, but a whole convoy of "Coach and Four's" were driven through the Constitution that night. And next morning it was presented as a "Done Deal". And it begs the question.. under the present freedom of information act, would it be possible to find out just who were the unsecured bondholder's that FF were so anxious to protect ???
This €200 + billion will it ever be paid off?? Ever?

Shefwedfan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's stunning the depth to which Fianna Fáilers will go defending the indefensible.

I'm not even pro Fine Gael...i'm pro the most competent party least likely to lead us in to disaster.

That is NOT Fianna Fáil.

Your not pro FG? your having a laugh


Ths is just a FF bashing thread with a load of rubbish in it. It is pure FG propaganda sh*t.



You keep saying FF will lead us into disaster. But FG so far have wasted billions, have more people than ever homeless which is increasing daily with no sign of how to stop it. A national BB plan that is a complete mess. A childrens hospital that is a disaster. Criminal running around chopping up 17 year old and no Garda to stop it. Fines coming for Ireland which will cost us billions and no long term plan to reduce CO2

That to me is a complete disaster, all sitting with FG.

But sure don't mind any of that....they have done ???? what since they got into power

purifol0

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Public sector pay is largely transparent with rates available online...
Civil Service Pay Scales
Teacher Salary Scale
Nursing/Midwifery Salary Scales
Pay Grades for HSE Staff

Google can be helpful here

"A nurse earned more than €84,000 in overtime last year, new figures have revealed.
And three other nurses received overtime in excess of €60,000."


https://extra.ie/2019/12/26/news/irish-news/nurse-overtime-spend-doubles




"CSO figures as showing that, including overtime and allowance, the average annual earnings for gardaí was €65,000 to €70,000
Garda overtime bill reached €132m in 2017,€98.5m in 2018 and €95m (so far) in 2019"


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-to-address-garda-overspend-averaging-50m-per-year-958750.html





The final amount paid out is all thats relevant to the tax payer.
But if they are paid only what the payscale says then why not make the payslips public? Maybe its because the basic salary has zero relation to the amounts they are actually taking home.

jimgoose

My benign mood is shattered by the news on FB that Me-hole Martin is talking about a new per-household charge to shore up RTE, enforced by Revenue. I will never vote for Fianna Fuckers again, at least the Blueshirts are respectable robbers. :mad: