Election: Fianna Fáil - pretending we don't remember

derfderf

I don't blame FF for the crash. They gave the people what they wanted. Low tax, high spending. Enda promised to take that even further in 2006.

Why? Because Noonan ran on a more conservative platform in 2002 (which in handsight was what was needed) and FG had one of their worst results ever. It was so bad Noonan stepped down.

The thing i will never forget about FF is that after the bailout one of their first actions was to lower the minimum wage. Nobody has it harder than people on minimum wage.

Shefwedfan

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Some historical stories relevant to Michael Martin specifically:

So, Why Did That Money End Up In Your Wife’s Bank Account, Mr Martin? -
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/02/11/so-why-did-that-money-end-up-in-your-wifes-account-mr-martin/

Ministers on €140,000 in triple pension deal - this is from 2009 so it may have gone up in the meantime
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ministers-on-140000-in-triple-pension-deal-26531706.html

Martin plan backfires as he clings to €90,000 deal - a nice 90k severance package he picked up when the country was going south
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/latest-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-90000-deal-26673362.html

Same stories are relevant to all the parties. Are you telling me FG Councillors are not claiming as much as possible?


The whole system is a joke, it was reported yesterday by moving outside a 25km limit to the Dail it means they get a 5k top up.



FG had power for last few years and they havent fixed any of these issues, if anything they have increased the money flowing to TDs


You have two boyos in Kerry who claim travels expenses to the Dail but are never in the Dail to vote. So magical they can be at a funeral in Kerry and the Dail at the same time. All of this is going on week in week out and FG done nothing


Insurance scandal, what exactly has FG done about both their TD's in that? or done to stop the outrageous insurance prices?



FG really would want to stop throwin mud and come up with some ideas, because they have come up with f**k all in year

McMurphy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's stunning the depth to which Fianna Fáilers will go defending the indefensible.

I'm not even pro Fine Gael...i'm pro the most competent party least likely to lead us in to disaster.

That is NOT Fianna Fáil.

Also a brexiteer if memory serves me correctly.

Pepp1989

Plumbthedepths wrote:

You're really not showing a difference between them tbh. No more so than the other lad.

One difference being that one of them is seeking re election and has a good chance to be Taoiseach.

If we excuse Martin on the basis that they were all at it then things will never change. Martin holds himself out as holier than thou and should be called on it. He had his chance and was a disaster. The fact that he leads FF says it all about that party.

charlietheminxx

It bothers me that because FG have messed up, people automatically look back to FF like they will do any better. When it comes to healthcare and housing, neither of them is in any position to be throwing stones.

One thing I will say is that FG were at least somewhat more socially progressive. How long did FF sit on the 8th Amendment, knowing a referendum was due and doing nothing about it? Even though they are trying to re-brand, FF are an old-fashioned party for people (mostly men) of a certain age. I thought Martin did a good job during the pre-referendum debates on the 8th but his views were not representative of his party membership: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/more-than-half-of-fianna-fail-parliamentary-party-backing-no-vote-in-referendum-36870462.html
Considering the results of the referendum, it's evident that FF were not representative of the Irish population with their stance on this.

Similarly, I seem to remember FF being inconclusive on the marriage equality referendum:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mixed-views-on-same-sex-marriage-referendum-at-ff-ardfheis-1.2189419

I agree FG have held the reigns for too long but Fianna Fail are NOT the answer to that.

We are lucky to live in a country that doesn't have First Past the Post style voting. We can vote for smaller parties or independents and they actually have a shot at a seat. A rainbow coalition would be better than this binary flip flop until the end of days.

Plumbthedepths

jmreire wrote: »

Qoute:- Being hit by the housing crisis is one thing, but their reaction was to assume ALL debts of the financial institutions who had gambled with our economy. Unquote.

Even Brussels were surprised by the extent of Fianna Fail's acceptance of this level of responsibility...they hadn't asked for it. But in Cuirt an Mean Oiche, all was decided,and not one, but a whole convoy of "Coach and Four's" were driven through the Constitution that night. And next morning it was presented as a "Done Deal". And it begs the question.. under the present freedom of information act, would it be possible to find out just who were the unsecured bondholder's that FF were so anxious to protect ???
This €200 + billion will it ever be paid off?? Ever?

You know that only passed into legislation by vote of the house.FF/FG/ SF voted for the guarantee Lab voted against. SF voted against a later guarantee. The guarantee was keep in place by the FG/ Lab government. The promissory note was turned into sovereign debt a day before David Hall was to take a challenge against its legality.
Btw no state pays off debt it gets rolled over and inflation errodes it.

Plumbthedepths

purifol0 wrote: »

"A nurse earned more than €84,000 in overtime last year, new figures have revealed.
And three other nurses received overtime in excess of €60,000."


https://extra.ie/2019/12/26/news/irish-news/nurse-overtime-spend-doubles




"CSO figures as showing that, including overtime and allowance, the average annual earnings for gardaí was €65,000 to €70,000
Garda overtime bill reached €132m in 2017,€98.5m in 2018 and €95m (so far) in 2019"


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-to-address-garda-overspend-averaging-50m-per-year-958750.html





The final amount paid out is all thats relevant to the tax payer.
But if they are paid only what the payscale says then why not make the payslips public? Maybe its because the basic salary has zero relation to the amounts they are actually taking home.

I work in the private sector I would cite GDPR if my employer tried to make my pay public knowledge or even known to my colleagues. Why should a public worker not enjoy the same privacy. As pointed out to you the basic rates are available online as are the allowances. You have no right to an individual's payslip.

KWAG2019

@ up of the crash too. In addition to all the other issues it’s very clear that FG see themselves as economic managers, not a government of a nation. They had a glorious open goal in 2011 but they wasted the opportunity. The smugness and the arrogance needs deflating.

Green Peter

Seeing how poor FG have preformed in goods times actually makes me glad FF were in power when the global recession hit. God knows how FG would have reacted with no resources or plan. When they did come in the followed the FF plan in the early years of gov.

Idbatterim

Green Peter wrote: »

Seeing how poor FG have preformed in goods times actually makes me glad FF were in power when the global recession hit. Of knows how FG would have reacted with no resources or plan. When they did come in the followed the FF plan in the early year of gov.

FG would have performed better if at the helm in my opinion, marginally. they are prepared to do more unpopular stuff than FF...

Idbatterim

KWAG2019 wrote: »

@ up of the crash too. In addition to all the other issues it’s very clear that FG see themselves as economic managers, not a government of a nation. They had a glorious open goal in 2011 but they wasted the opportunity. The smugness and the arrogance needs deflating.

ok, but what ? to replace it with FF as senior party? cause that is what we will get, so we get the smugness, arrogance, incompetent, reward them and if they bring it all crashing down again, are you happy to say you will have allowed FF to do it twice (even though FG would have also done it first time round) I am not...

is_that_so

jimgoose wrote: »

My benign mood is shattered by the news on FB that Me-hole Martin is talking about a new per-household charge to shore up RTE, enforced by Revenue. I will never vote for Fianna Fuckers again, at least the Blueshirts are respectable robbers. :mad:

FB and news , there's an oxymoron!

moritz1234

My money is on FF

Next Irish General Election Most Seats
Fianna Fail 8/11
Fine Gael 6/4
Sinn Fein 66/1
Green 125/1

Shefwedfan

purifol0 wrote: »

"A nurse earned more than €84,000 in overtime last year, new figures have revealed.
And three other nurses received overtime in excess of €60,000."


https://extra.ie/2019/12/26/news/irish-news/nurse-overtime-spend-doubles




"CSO figures as showing that, including overtime and allowance, the average annual earnings for gardaí was €65,000 to €70,000
Garda overtime bill reached €132m in 2017,€98.5m in 2018 and €95m (so far) in 2019"


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-to-address-garda-overspend-averaging-50m-per-year-958750.html





The final amount paid out is all thats relevant to the tax payer.
But if they are paid only what the payscale says then why not make the payslips public? Maybe its because the basic salary has zero relation to the amounts they are actually taking home.

Ahh yes the blame the nurse and Garda,.....next the teacher



The reason these people are doing so much overtime is because they have no staff. What do you want the nurse to do? her 9-5 shift and then let people care for themselves?


I would be more concerned with the money spent on agency staff. This is the method used by the HSE to keep staff levels down, problem is the agency staff cost a lot more than a nurse hired by the HSE. Just it keeps them off the book as head count.



So instead of picking on a nurse half killing herself with overtime why not look at the root cause? under staffed hospital because of a s**ty run HSE.



I really dislike this attack the nurse/Garda s**t people go on with....

How much was a base TD wage? then how much once expenses etc are they paid? while most of the time they dont even bother going to the Dail.



How would you feel in hospital if a nurse didn't show up but sure it was ok because her mate clocked her in. Cop on with your nurse/Garda bashing

Shefwedfan

jimgoose wrote: »

My benign mood is shattered by the news on FB that Me-hole Martin is talking about a new per-household charge to shore up RTE, enforced by Revenue. I will never vote for Fianna Fuckers again, at least the Blueshirts are respectable robbers. :mad:

I would love to see your source for this nugget

_Kaiser_

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would love to see your source for this nugget

Can't see FF going with that one seeing even FG deferred the notion of a universal broadcast tax when the mood was felt.

Sounds more like disinformation to me

purifol0

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I work in the private sector I would cite GDPR if my employer tried to make my pay public knowledge or even known to my colleagues. Why should a public worker not enjoy the same privacy. As pointed out to you the basic rates are available online as are the allowances. You have no right to an individual's payslip.

Au contraire the public has every right to know where their tax money is spent and into whose pockets those taxes go to.



If you want to remain an ignorant serf and abuse the spirit of the GDPR thats your perogative. But the rest of us deserve better than this:


www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/state-cites-gdpr-for-refusal-to-reveal-td-pensions-883404.html


"Government has been accused of “hiding” behind GDPR rules to prevent transparency and accountability after it emerged it will no longer release details of pension payments to former senior office holders.The Irish Examiner has confirmed that the Department of Finance is refusing to publish new details of pension payments to former taoisigh such as Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen this year, despite doing so for decades."


Now Plumbthedepths defend that!

Shefwedfan

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Can't see FF going with that one seeing even FG deferred the notion of a universal broadcast tax when the mood was felt.

Sounds more like disinformation to me

Course it is, people are promising another Irish Water if this happens....now try and put it onto FF


RTE are pushing for this and havent FG announced they will implement it in a few years???? so that one is all FG

Plumbthedepths

purifol0 wrote: »

Au contraire the public has every right to know where their tax money is spent and into whose pockets those taxes go to.



If you want to remain an ignorant serf and abuse the spirit of the GDPR thats your perogative. But the rest of us deserve better than this:


www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/state-cites-gdpr-for-refusal-to-reveal-td-pensions-883404.html


"Government has been accused of “hiding” behind GDPR rules to prevent transparency and accountability after it emerged it will no longer release details of pension payments to former senior office holders.The Irish Examiner has confirmed that the Department of Finance is refusing to publish new details of pension payments to former taoisigh such as Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen this year, despite doing so for decades."


Now Plumbthedepths defend that!

The post I responded to was referencing the pay of public servants I believe a nurse was your example? I will repeat myself just incase you had comprehension problems the first time. Pays scales are available online including allowances. Now it's obvious a nurse in the public sector is paid out of the public purse. So yes you know the money is going to the nurse. Now outside of basic and allowances what else she/he gets in overtime is none of your business. Also wanting payslips published belonging to individuals never going to happen. What someone earns legally and what they have deducted from their pay would be on this payslip and that's private information covered by GDPR and even if GDPR didn't exist it's still none of your business or anyone elses.
Now I responded in a polite manner without resorting to name calling ( see your serf accusation) you should try it .

Phoebas

Green Peter wrote: »

Seeing how poor FG have preformed in goods times actually makes me glad FF were in power when the global recession hit. God knows how FG would have reacted with no resources or plan. When they did come in the followed the FF plan in the early years of gov.

FG took over in perhaps the worst times in the history of the state.

The 'good times' that we currently enjoy are what has resulted.

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote: »

FG took over in perhaps the worst times in the history of the state.

The 'good times' that we currently enjoy are what has resulted.

good times! fcuking hell!

is_that_so

Wanderer78 wrote: »

good times! fcuking hell!

Not so bad times?!

Phoebas

Wanderer78 wrote: »

good times! fcuking hell!

That was the phrase used by the other poster.
But against 2011, these are comparatively good times. People have very short memories about how bad things got under FF.

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote: »

That was the phrase used by the other poster.
But against 2011, these are comparatively good times. People have very short memories about how bad things got under FF.

i think theyre just a different type of ****e now, nothings gonna really change, we re stuck

jimgoose

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would love to see your source for this nugget

https://www.businesspost.ie/news-focus/martin-promises-a-household-media-charge-to-boost-rte-36c810bb

is_that_so

jimgoose wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/news-focus/martin-promises-a-household-media-charge-to-boost-rte-36c810bb

Ah September, not February. On mature reflection he may want to shelve that or it could knock him off-message.

StupidLikeAFox

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Enda give up his teachers position after he crossed the 20 year threshold for a teacher's pension.
I remember Phil Hogan refusing to take a voluntary cut in wage during the height of the recession, something along the lines of his 'circumstances not allowing it' workers didn't have the same option as Phil.
Enda still claiming full attendance expenses in the Dail yet away on speaking engagements on the same day as signed in the Dail.
You're really not showing a difference between them tbh. No more so than the other lad.

Enda Kenny and Phil Hogan are not up for the election, not sure how they are relevant to the discussion
The topic is about Fianna Fail, which is why I brought up about Michael Martin
Im not trying to show differences between anybody, not sure who the "other lad" is that you're talking about

Plumbthedepths

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Enda Kenny and Phil Hogan are not up for the election, not sure how they are relevant to the discussion
The topic is about Fianna Fail, which is why I brought up about Michael Martin
Im not trying to show differences between anybody, not sure who the "other lad" is that you're talking about

Everything is relevant in an election when there's mud to be slung. ;-)

James Brown

Phoebas wrote: »

FG took over in perhaps the worst times in the history of the state.

The 'good times' that we currently enjoy are what has resulted.

But the biggest opportunity. They ran on hard changes and wimped out.

The 'good times' are only for those living in a bubble, a bubble that doesn't do empathy.

James Brown

Phoebas wrote: »

That was the phrase used by the other poster.
But against 2011, these are comparatively good times. People have very short memories about how bad things got under FF.

They really don't. It's just FG are that bad. They see how they may have over indulged and paid heavily for it while many did not and they see several years later being told about how great things are while many suffer through record breaking national crises.
So 'short memories' can be explained by FF not beating the public with a stick like FG do for problems mainly caused by people who are having 'the good times' right now.