Bring back the death penalty

notobtuse

I don't know what prison is like in Ireland but in the states even some prisoners given life for murder, especially gang members, continue to operate and keep their control of crime networks on the outside from behind bars.

In New York starting this year some deadly crimes including second degree murder... after being arrested in the morning, be arraigned in court, post no bail, and be back home in time for supper.

AllForIt

There are plenty cases where there is no doubt whatsoever as to guilt - like for example the killers of Lee Rigby.

I don't see how a bullet to the head could cost more than keeping someone in prison for 30+ years.

Deterrent has absolutely noting whatsoever to do with it. We are talking about the people who have been convicted. There is no way to tell it doesn't work as a deterrent. And even if it doesn't that's not the sole concern.

No one is saying absolutely everyone who commits murder should face the death penalty. For example the killer of Sarah Payne is someone who would qualify imo. Ian Brady another. Mass murdering terrorists etc.

I don't agree with the way the US conduct this. Electrocution and lethal injection is all wrong. Bullet to the head.

The only good argument I've heard against it is that the state don't execute it properly (pardon the pun), as I've just allured to. I think this could be fixed easily. For example, noone would be executed on circumstantial evidence. So Graham Dwyer would live. Lee Rigby killers...indisputable...bullet.

Also, I really think it's funny that when this issue is discussed that the lefties come out to to admonish anyone who might think it's a good idea as if there're the worst people in the world to think such a thing. As if they are even worse than the ppl who deserve the death penalty. But then again I shouldn't be surprised

The_Mac

AllForIt wrote: »

There are plenty cases where there is no doubt whatsoever as to guilt - like for example the killers of Lee Rigby.

I don't see how a bullet to the head could cost more than keeping someone in prison for 30+ years.

Deterrent has absolutely noting whatsoever to do with it. We are talking about the people who have been convicted. There is no way to tell it doesn't work as a deterrent. And even if it doesn't that's not the sole concern.

No one is saying absolutely everyone who commits murder should face the death penalty. For example the killer of Sarah Payne is someone who would qualify imo. Ian Brady another. Mass murdering terrorists etc.

I don't agree with the way the US conduct this. Electrocution and lethal injection is all wrong. Bullet to the head.

The only good argument I've heard against it is that the state don't execute it properly (pardon the pun), as I've just allured to. I think this could be fixed easily. For example, noone would be executed on circumstantial evidence. So Graham Dwyer would live. Lee Rigby killers...indisputable...bullet.

Also, I really think it's funny that when this issue is discussed that the lefties come out to to admonish anyone who might think it's a good idea as if there're the worst people in the world to think such a thing. As if they are even worse than the ppl who deserve the death penalty. But then again I shouldn't be surprised

A bullet to the head is cheaper. However you forget the other expenses attached to that bullet that ramp up the price more than imprisonment. Special holding cells, appeal cases ect. Make it much more costly. Besides, I'd rather see someone rot for thirty years knowing they'll never see the outside world again, never be free, than to give them a quick death.

dvdman1

Reality and lived experiences always trump written words in law and the idealism of how we may like to conduct a society.
The crime wave were experienceing needs a Rodrigo Duterte response. To think the UNHRC criticised the Philippines, organised drug crime is now falling.

Ireland is so small and the Garad know exactly who to target, the issue could be wrapped up in a few months.

Dakota Dan

cjmc wrote: »

Arm the gardai to the teeth and kill the bastards before they commit these crimes

Before they commit the crime, hmm

Graces7

THis happened in the UK . I was engaged on the letters page of the local paper with a discusssion on these lines with my next door neighbour; the language here is much the same.

Then news broke that a man who had been executed had been proved innocent.

Shocked us all, and if killing is wrong then it is wrong,

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone will get executed and then new evidence will prove their innocence.
If this happens even once, then the system is a failure in my view.

screamer

If those commuting the crimes don’t particularly value their lives, death penalty is no deterrent. I think it’d make them even more brutal knowing that death was inevitable much like our stupid concurrent sentencing. Take all they have, all the I’ll gotten gains, and fire them over to a he’ll hole prison for the rest of their lives. No human rights for animals.

Feisar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

THE DEATH PENALTY DOES NOT ACT AS A DETERRENCE.


Most murders are;

A) Carried out in a moment of rage.

or

Committed by someone that believes they won't be caught.

SO!!!

It’s not about punishment/deterrent, I just don’t want these people around anymore!

topmanamillion

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neither of these are the case in the type of murders I'm referring to. Also would save the state a ton of money.

Wouldn't save the state a penny.
A quick Google search shows most death row inmates are going 20+ years in prison before all appeals and due process are exhausted. In real terms it means someone in their 20s convicted today and put on death row will likely see their 50s before they are put to death.
That's at a massive expense, much more than would be incurred through incarceration.

The death penalty does nothing apart from give society a sense of ultimate retribution.
There's no justice in it for families of victims as they are left with blood on their hands.

It definitely doesn't act as a deterrent for people consumed by greed for money from drugs and criminality. They simply believe the risks are worth it or are so deeply involved/indebted to a gang they have no option.

Sardonicat

marieholmfan wrote: »

If you can't be sure that you won't hang any one who is innocent then you can't hang anyone who is guilty.

Which is one of the main reasons for not having it! The fact that you can't see that is baffling.

Yurt2

dvdman1 wrote: »

The crime wave were experienceing needs a Rodrigo Duterte response. To think the UNHRC criticised the Philippines, organised drug crime is now falling.

Is it? Duterte himself is reporting double the amount of drug dependant Philipinos than at the outset of his presidency. And thousands (possibly tens of thousands) dead in extra-judicial killings and related violence.

He's also reporting that the Medallin Cartel are now active in the country. Sweet drug war bro.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rappler.com/thought-leaders/224583-analysis-how-duterte-exaggerations-worsened-drug-problem-philippines

tinofapples

screamer wrote: »

If those commuting the crimes don’t particularly value their lives, death penalty is no deterrent. I think it’d make them even more brutal knowing that death was inevitable much like our stupid concurrent sentencing. Take all they have, all the I’ll gotten gains, and fire them over to a he’ll hole prison for the rest of their lives. No human rights for animals.

Now you're talking, a prison resembling that of a 12th century prison not a modern day facility with all mod cons. Repeat offenders on lesser charges should be afforded the same comfort, all they are doing is costing working taxpayers money that could and should be spent far better on people that deserve the states aid. Time to toughen up of wasters well past.

dvdman1

Yurt! wrote: »

Is it? Duterte himself is reporting double the amount of drug dependant Philipinos than at the outset of his presidency. And thousands (possibly tens of thousands) dead in extra-judicial killings and related violence.

He's also reporting that the Medallin Cartel are now active in the country. Sweet drug war bro.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rappler.com/thought-leaders/224583-analysis-how-duterte-exaggerations-worsened-drug-problem-philippines

There were 14,633 crime incidents in 2018, down 21 percent from 18,524 in 2017 in Manila...directly related to the clamp down.
The Pnp have continued to document the fall in crime nationwide.

ohnonotgmail

dvdman1 wrote: »

There were 14,633 crime incidents in 2018, down 21 percent from 18,524 in 2017 in Manila...directly related to the clamp down.
The Pnp have continued to document the fall in crime nationwide.

are they including the people killed in extra-judicial killings in those figures?

JJayoo

Death by mulcher would be a good deterant

dvdman1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are they including the people killed in extra-judicial killings in those figures?

The point is the reduction in crime without your moral judgments. If you step back and look at the long term, lives will be saved overall.
Duterte is pre-empting his country turning into another Mexico

ohnonotgmail

dvdman1 wrote: »

The point is the reduction in crime without your moral judgments. If you step back and look at the long term, lives will be saved overall.
Duterte is pre-empting his country turning into another Mexico

Yeah, me and my moral judgements about killing people who have never been tried. Of course everybody killed was actually involved in drugs and not mistakenly killed. and the police force are definitely not only killing those that wont pay them off. the police force there is completely beyond being bribed.

dvdman1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Yeah, me and my moral judgements about killing people who have never been tried. Of course everybody killed was actually involved in drugs and not mistakenly killed. and the police force are definitely not only killing those that wont pay them off. the police force there is completely beyond being bribed.

Nobody said things are perfect or without injustice
Extreme situations call on extreme measures. AND what you wont hear is, it sometimes pays off.