The murder of Keane Mulready Woods.

STB.

kippy wrote: »

Ok,
So stricter sentencing than what we currently have doesn't work. (Lets assume that for a while)

Where do you start?

But we don't have strict sentencing and especially in the case of juveniles. Judges are allowed leniency and in a lot of cases they are very lenient. Repeat offenders with 100+ previous convictions getting suspended sentences.

Then there are serious criminals out on bail and among the general population several years after being charged with serious crimes, awaiting trial. During that time they carry out even further serious crimes that could have been avoided had they been outright refused bail.

Ardillaun

splinter65 wrote: »

Here’s a non scientific fact for you. 99.9% of 17 year old boys know that firebombing houses and threatening and intimidating old ladies is wrong. Do you know why? Because their parents extended families and the decent society they live in told them it was wrong. Nothing to do with their frontal cortex at all.

Yes, good parenting with two parents etc. does reduce the likelihood of antisocial behaviour but does not eliminate its possibility entirely. Some psychopaths and sociopaths come from ‘good’ homes where they were told about right and wrong many times.

And I’m not sure how emphatically I have to explain that I’m not making excuses for this person’s past behaviour. Usually, I wouldn’t bother commenting so soon after such an event but the circumstances here seem to represent something even worse than what we have seen so far. This shouldn’t happen to anybody.

starbaby2003

Drogheda feud: Gardaí target 'every little detail' in search for perpetrators
https://jrnl.ie/4972820

kildare lad

STB. wrote: »

But we don't have strict sentencing and especially in the case of juveniles. Judges are allowed leniency and in a lot of cases they are very lenient. Repeat offenders with 100+ previous convictions getting suspended sentences.

Then there are serious criminals out on bail and among the general population several years after being charged with serious crimes, awaiting trial. During that time they carry out even further serious crimes that could have been avoided had they been outright refused bail.

I was reading about this case in the star last week, in the side column of the paper there was a separate article about a 16 y.o getting a suspended sentence for putting a knife up to someone's throat and robbing them . Here's another case of a suspended sentence from today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/schoolboy-gets-four-year-suspended-sentence-for-attack-on-delivery-man-1.4145796

The system need a serious shake up.

wellwhynot

kildare lad wrote: »

I was reading about this case in the star last week, in the side column of the paper there was a separate article about a 16 y.o getting a suspended sentence for putting a knife up to someone's throat and robbing them . Here's another case of a suspended sentence from today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/schoolboy-gets-four-year-suspended-sentence-for-attack-on-delivery-man-1.4145796

The system need a serious shake up.

The violence is shocking. Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard the man had suffered a broken nose, concussion and chipped teeth. The 66 year old man has not returned to work since. They mention the boys mother in the article, no mention of the father. I wonder does the mother work. He also didn’t engage with probation services the first time

wellwhynot

According to this article there are a group of African teens running amok in West Dublin. Wonder if the lad in the above article is part of it.

The fearless yobs are “arrested every week” for violent incidents such as assault causing harm, possession of offensive weapons, violent disorder and criminal damage, according to sources.

And politicians in the areas say gardai risk setting off “a mini riot” every time they decide to put their foot down and arrest one of the youths.

The guards admit they can’t do anything. There is zero chance they will grow up to be law abiding citizens so lock them up young or in this case deport.

iamwhoiam

kildare lad wrote: »

I was reading about this case in the star last week, in the side column of the paper there was a separate article about a 16 y.o getting a suspended sentence for putting a knife up to someone's throat and robbing them . Here's another case of a suspended sentence from today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/schoolboy-gets-four-year-suspended-sentence-for-attack-on-delivery-man-1.4145796

The system need a serious shake up.

The victims dont matter any more .

thegetawaycar

Is there any party willing to deal with this? FG have claimed to be the party of law and order (and also for those who get up early to work).

What a f*cking joke! Criminals walk around with Three digit convictions by the age of 30 and with complete lack of respect for the guards. I feel sorry for the Gardai with these things, it's clear they are arresting these offenders (otherwise they would have 0 convictions) but our judicial system just allows them back on the streets. We have a lack of resources and most of them are tied up dealing with the same people over and over again.

Lots of counties crying out for jobs so open a large prison in the middle of nowhere/on an island and put anyone with over 100 minor convictions/50 minor conviction or 20 high level convictions etc... in for life. Get them out of society, not passing on their genes, not committing crimes, no social welfare to be paid to them, no supports for would be victims, no free medical support (palliative care if they get ill in this prison) and no housing support (HAP or council house). If under 18 have the parents also paying to the victims on a monthly basis, if they are on government supports then have part of it redirected to the victims.

I always hear the costs of keeping people in prison is huge but the societal and monetary benefits in my opinion make up for it.
I'm sick of a small bunch of assholes ruining areas for everyone else and of the judicial system encouraging them to continue to do so.

whisky_galore

Gardai in Drogheda advised to "be careful".
No mention of any resources being allocated.

Absolutely pathetic.

The_Brood

Even the Gardai now begging for resources and back up.

Yet on these forums so many people deny how unsafe Dublin and the surrounding areas, and im sure elsewhere in Ireland, have become. Time and time again they deny evidence and just claim it is a couple of individual experiences. Mods join in and agree with them too. People are literally being chopped to pieces yet it seems to be some weird sourse of pride for people to deny reality and claim there is no crisis? But let me guess, there are stabbings in Paris too so lets not do anything, its just normal?

The attitude of the masses denying these dangers is directly responsible for the conditions that allow such crime to occur. Many many people on these forums need to have a look in the mirror.

The fact that this is not a big campaign issue means that more people will die. Politicians have blood on their hands as do voters who support a lack of action.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the way policing is done.

KiKi III

The_Brood wrote: »

Even the Gardai now begging for resources and back up.

Yet on these forums so many people deny how unsafe Dublin and the surrounding areas, and im sure elsewhere in Ireland, have become. Time and time again they deny evidence and just claim it is a couple of individual experiences. Mods join in and agree with them too. People are literally being chopped to pieces yet it seems to be some weird sourse of pride for people to deny reality and claim there is no crisis? But let me guess, there are stabbings in Paris too so lets not do anything, its just normal?

The attitude of the masses denying these dangers is directly responsible for the conditions that allow such crime to occur. Many many people on these forums need to have a look in the mirror.

The fact that this is not a big campaign issue means that more people will die. Politicians have blood on their hands as do voters who support a lack of action.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the way policing is done.

Two things can be true at the same time. Gardaí desperately need more resources, and the gangland criminals in Dublin operate in certain very specific areas.

I live, work and study in Dublin and I feel very safe. I don’t think any of my friends feel unsafe either.

kippy

I said it earlier on the thread but this should be the last straw - these guys think they are above the law.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/drogheda-garda-has-car-followed-home-by-suspected-gang-members-976707.html
Time to call in the army - amend a couple of laws and take these people off the streets.

nullzero

The_Brood wrote: »

Even the Gardai now begging for resources and back up.

Yet on these forums so many people deny how unsafe Dublin and the surrounding areas, and im sure elsewhere in Ireland, have become. Time and time again they deny evidence and just claim it is a couple of individual experiences. Mods join in and agree with them too. People are literally being chopped to pieces yet it seems to be some weird sourse of pride for people to deny reality and claim there is no crisis? But let me guess, there are stabbings in Paris too so lets not do anything, its just normal?

The attitude of the masses denying these dangers is directly responsible for the conditions that allow such crime to occur. Many many people on these forums need to have a look in the mirror.

The fact that this is not a big campaign issue means that more people will die. Politicians have blood on their hands as do voters who support a lack of action.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the way policing is done.

Tackling organised crime takes a different approach to what we've attempted in this country so far. CAB worked well when it was introduced but the type of offences being committed has changed since then most notably the level and intensity of violence as ramped up and this is the area that now needs to tackled.

This all needs to be done via changes to legislation, new harsh punishments for acts of violence need to be introduced, this is needed not only in relation to this feud but violent offences in general and the suspended sentence culture we have in this country.

Unfortunately extra provision of prison facilities is required and will have to be built, the lawlessness we're dealing with now needs to be eradicated as soon as humanly possible.

My own opinion is that the defence forces should be on the ground in Drogheda full time until this issue is dealt with, Gardai being followed home by lowlifes isn't good enough, although it shows the level of stupidity these people have to begin with, although that same stupidity could lead to them doing something awful.

jam_mac_jam

kippy wrote: »

I said it earlier on the thread but this should be the last straw - these guys think they are above the law.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/drogheda-garda-has-car-followed-home-by-suspected-gang-members-976707.html
Time to call in the army - amend a couple of laws and take these people off the streets.

The army are not trained in investigating crime, what exactly do you hope to achieve by bringing them in. Proper sentences for the laws that we already have would be a start.

whisky_galore

kippy wrote: »

I said it earlier on the thread but this should be the last straw - these guys think they are above the law.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/drogheda-garda-has-car-followed-home-by-suspected-gang-members-976707.html
Time to call in the army - amend a couple of laws and take these people off the streets.

The last time army did police work in this country that didn't end well.

Might as well tell a cat to be a dog.

kippy

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The army are not trained in investigating crime, what exactly do you hope to achieve by bringing them in. Proper sentences for the laws that we already have would be a start.

In the short term a presence to protect the Gardai.

Green Peter

When the gardai were given resources in the past like in Limerick they can get well on top of it. The problem is that these people have been allowed develop to this stage due to lack of resources, this is repeated in small towns and large towns across the country and only when it gets way out of hand are resounces thrown at it. If it's not drawing attention on the Leo's and Flanagan's then the gardai and locals can suck it up. This senario is on the verge of happening across the country and the media don't always want to report it either.

Boggles

kippy wrote: »

In the short term a presence to protect the Gardai.

So we have Army patrols following Gardaí?

No that would be silly.

I imagine since one of the force has been intimated they will get the funding and necessary resources to get the job done now.

They are more than capable.

kippy

Boggles wrote: »

So we have Army patrols following Gardaí?

No that would be silly.

I imagine since one of the force has been intimated they will get the funding and necessary resources to get the job done now.

They are more than capable.

Fair enough.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

fritzelly wrote: »

He was an adult, no point trying to elicit unfounded feelings by using terms for actual children

According to the law, he is NOT an adult.

The_Brood wrote: »

Even the Gardai now begging for resources and back up.

Yet on these forums so many people deny how unsafe Dublin and the surrounding areas, and im sure elsewhere in Ireland, have become. Time and time again they deny evidence and just claim it is a couple of individual experiences. Mods join in and agree with them too. People are literally being chopped to pieces yet it seems to be some weird sourse of pride for people to deny reality and claim there is no crisis? But let me guess, there are stabbings in Paris too so lets not do anything, its just normal?

The attitude of the masses denying these dangers is directly responsible for the conditions that allow such crime to occur. Many many people on these forums need to have a look in the mirror.

The fact that this is not a big campaign issue means that more people will die. Politicians have blood on their hands as do voters who support a lack of action.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the way policing is done.

Wow, much sensationalism.

A complete overhaul? Could you describe what this "complete overhaul" should involve?

Can you highlight anywhere on this website where "the masses are denying the dangers". Lots of hurr durr in your comments dude.

Lots of people living closely together = crime (shock horror).

Scumbags killing scumbags, who really cares?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

As for calling in the army. To do what exactly? What an idiotic idea really.

easypazz

whisky_galore wrote: »

The last time army did police work in this country that didn't end well.

Might as well tell a cat to be a dog.

What are you referring to?

I remember them supporting cash in transit vans and it didnt cause a problem.

I also remember them supporting the gardai against the provos.

4 soldiers with guns standing at a checkpoint would enable a single guard do his work safely.

Duke of Url

Green Peter wrote: »

When the gardai were given resources in the past like in Limerick they can get well on top of it. The problem is that these people have been allowed develop to this stage due to lack of resources, this is repeated in small towns and large towns across the country and only when it gets way out of hand are resounces thrown at it. If it's not drawing attention on the Leo's and Flanagan's then the gardai and locals can suck it up. This senario is on the verge of happening across the country and the media don't always want to report it either.

You could multiply resources 10 fold. As long as the Judicial System is a revolving door with bail and suspended sentences then resources wont make a difference.

jimgoose

kippy wrote: »

I said it earlier on the thread but this should be the last straw - these guys think they are above the law.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/drogheda-garda-has-car-followed-home-by-suspected-gang-members-976707.html
Time to call in the army - amend a couple of laws and take these people off the streets.

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. -- Cmdr. William Adama

pc7

jimgoose wrote: »

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. -- Cmdr. William Adama

Quoting a fictional TV character doesn't make it a valid argument. If the police can't manage then have the army there as even a visual deterrent.

Graces7

To put some fear into these violent and uncontrolled kids . They are out of control.
Gets done in other countries when a situation needs it.

As some others have said, when soldiers accompanied cash deliveries at banks that worked fine. Guns at the ready...

Elaina Greasy Pug wrote: »

As for calling in the army. To do what exactly? What an idiotic idea really.

Saint Sonner

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2020/0120/1108596-drogheda-arrest/

I wonder what bail conditions this guy broke????

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I’ve heard worse ideas than having the army accompany gardai. They were on hand to protect the Gardai whilst dropping money at banks. Anyone chopping someone to death is an enemy of the state

kippy

There's a very short term issue here and a short term requirement for more force to be at least visible on the streets.
These guys think they are above the law and they seem to be in a lot of cases.
In the short term the army are needed to protect the interests of the state and if that means assisting the Gardai then what's the problem?
These criminals are terrorist organisations in all but name.

Granted in the medium to longer term other resources can be thrown at the problem and the state can step in an provide yet more "help and support" to those that need to be guided from the criminal life but right now something further has to be done - what's the easiest, most straightforward thing to do - call in the army - ramp up the stopping of cars, searching of houses etc etc make thing difficult for the criminals.

People are saying we don't have enough Gardai, the Gardai are saying it, assist them in the very short term.
I dunno, there are things that can be done NOW to make life more difficult for these criminals that don't involve changing laws or some major change in how the state provides support to people, but there's a lack of will to make some basic changes.

Boggles

kippy wrote: »

These guys think they are above the law and they seem to be in a lot of cases.
In the short term the army are needed to protect the interests of the state and if that means assisting the Gardai then what's the problem?

WTF?

Complete Helen Lovejoy'esque hyperbolic nonsense

You don't call in the army because a few scumbags have gone nuts off their own product in Louth FFS.

Utter Lunacy.