The murder of Keane Mulready Woods.

KiKi III

fritzelly wrote: »

Get over pretending this is some little kid they killed, the other thread you are demonizing a man for playing on his phone, you have some weird moral levels

I haven’t demonised anyone on that thread, you’re being a bit of a drama queen there now (feel free to quote where I’ve “demonised” anyone on that thread though, I’ll wait)

He was a teenager. 17. The age I did my Leaving Cert. The age I lost my virginity. I don’t look back at the person I was then and think “yeah, she was 100% an adult”

anewme

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I totally get where your coming from.
I was just trying to say that tat isn't worth the price!

It's a different set of morals. It's a different life. A relative lived in an area where shootings were common and it was accepted part of daily life.

Feisar

KiKi III wrote: »

Probably not. The wider point was that if he was killed to send a message, it wasn’t even retribution for anything he had done - it seems like they just thought about what would hurt his godfather the most.

He was obviously no angel, but he had no more choice about the family he was born into than Prince Harry (or any of us), and he’d have a harder time walking away from them than Harry did.

Look I hear what you are saying. However we are talking about rabid dogs. It actually doesn't matter how they started out/got no chance/etc, they are now a scourge and should be treated as such.

whisky_galore

trashcan wrote: »

Innocent people will almost inevitably end up getting hurt I fear.

This.

People saying they don't give a shyte if it's each other they're killing.

Wait until kids, they could be your kids, find someones' hacked up body.
Nice thought, isnt it?

Or wait until there's another Veronica Guerin or Shane Geoghegan.

If its what you do for ****s and giggles, have a think about what you're sticking up your nostrils on nights out, and your little contribution to all this.

If you're saying you don't care, then you're ok with this. Yeah, like this is a normal part of Irish life.

Assetbacked

Boxcar_Willie wrote: »

Team A Drogheda
Maguires (one in wheelchair after hit)
Cornelius Price
Keane Mulready (dead - Maguire godson)
Team A Coolock
Clayo Lynch
Flashy baby crew
Mr Big / Keith Finn (dead)

Team B Drogheda
Paul Crosby
Boylan brothers
Team B Coolock
Robbie Lawlor (gun for hire)
Richie Carberry (his brother in law - dead)

Getting close to bingo.

KiKi III

Feisar wrote: »

Look I hear what you are saying. However we are talking about rabid dogs. It actually doesn't matter how they started out/got no chance/etc, they are now a scourge and should be treated as such.

So what’s the solution? I don’t think simply dehumanising them is going to help.

Feisar

One thing is for sure though, this is an escalation.

We'll see people being tortured to death who may just be someones relative. It's going to get nasty.

Feisar

KiKi III wrote: »

So what’s the solution? I don’t think simply dehumanising them is going to help.

I'm not dehumanizing, I'm stating facts, they dehumanize themselves.

Solution?

Break the cycle. Start by taking kids away from families like these people. Sterilization. Internment. Throw in a bit of hearts and minds. There was a list of lads mentioned earlier, they need to be gotten rid of.

Nothing tasteful about any of it.

ChikiChiki

fritzelly wrote: »

The whole attitude to drugs in Ireland is dreadful and only fosters these gangs on
Look at the quays, Smithfield and so on in Dublin - rampant drug dealing going on and nothing done about it. Sure the garda say there's no point going after the small guys but by god it's not like they are cracking down on the gangs - for every seizure they publicize there's 10 times as much they missed.
It just needs a massive crack down on this - raid them all, to the courts and get a judge who doesn't believe every sob story out of their mouths
There is no culpability in Ireland and judges included - concurrent sentences, the most stupid thing ever thought of

But but but one of the safest countries in the world or some other nonsense.....

I don't care what people say, the country is bonkers when you have people with 150 convictions plus walking around not giving a fook as they know the next time they are in court they will be straight back out.

Lawyers and judges are fueling a lot of this.

KiKi III

Feisar wrote: »

I'm not dehumanizing, I'm stating facts, they dehumanize themselves.

Solution?

Break the cycle. Start by taking kids away from families like these people. Sterilization. Internment. Throw in a bit of hearts and minds. There was a list of lads mentioned earlier, they need to be gotten rid of.

Nothing tasteful about any of it.

When you characterise human beings as rabid dogs you are dehumanising them in a very literal way.

Can you point to any society worldwide where forced steralization or internment have worked out well?

Feisar

KiKi III wrote: »

When you characterise human beings as rabid dogs you are dehumanising them in a very literal way.

Can you point to any society worldwide where forced steralization or internment have worked out well?

Fair points, have you any ideas?

smelly sock

whisky_galore wrote: »

This.

People saying they don't give a shyte if it's each other they're killing.

Wait until kids, they could be your kids, find someones' hacked up body.
Nice thought, isnt it?

Or wait until there's another Veronica Guerin or Shane Geoghegan.

If its what you do for ****s and giggles, have a think about what you're sticking up your nostrils on nights out, and your little contribution to all this.

If you're saying you don't care, then you're ok with this. Yeah, like this is a normal part of Irish life.

Whats your solution?

whisky_galore

smelly sock wrote: »

Whats your solution?

What's yours?

freshpopcorn

Has his school or former school made any statement or is that long over?

KiKi III

Feisar wrote: »

Fair points, have you any ideas?

The decriminalisation of all drugs per the highly successful Portuguese model would deprive the gangs of a huge chunk of their income so that’s where I’d start.

After that, a mixture of the carrot and the stick I suppose:

- longer sentences for violent crime
- more, better trained, armed police in the worst effected areas
- early intervention programs starting in primary school
- incentives for kids from those areas to go on to third level

I’m no expert though, just spitballing.

smelly sock

whisky_galore wrote: »

What's yours?

I've offered mine previously.

smelly sock

Decriminalise drugs. The Govt will over tax them thus neutralising any if the benefits such a move would have toward organised crime etc.

The criminals like this man would under cut them and still make a packet.

ILoveYourVibes

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Has his school or former school made any statement or is that long over?

I don't think they would want to get involved or be associated with him.

Feisar

KiKi III wrote: »

The decriminalisation of all drugs per the highly successful Portuguese model would deprive the gangs of a huge chunk of their income so that’s where I’d start.

After that, a mixture of the carrot and the stick I suppose:

- longer sentences for violent crime
- more, better trained, armed police in the worst effected areas
- early intervention programs starting in primary school
- incentives for kids from those areas to go on to third level

I’m no expert though, just spitballing.

All good stuff, not sure the Portuguese model is as good as some advocates make out. Although that opinion is only from a vaguely remembered radio interview. For example Amsterdam doesn’t have a squeaky clean sex industry. Definitely worth a look at though.

rob316

fritzelly wrote: »

The whole attitude to drugs in Ireland is dreadful and only fosters these gangs on
Look at the quays, Smithfield and so on in Dublin - rampant drug dealing going on and nothing done about it. Sure the garda say there's no point going after the small guys but by god it's not like they are cracking down on the gangs - for every seizure they publicize there's 10 times as much they missed.
It just needs a massive crack down on this - raid them all, to the courts and get a judge who doesn't believe every sob story out of their mouths
There is no culpability in Ireland and judges included - concurrent sentences, the most stupid thing ever thought of

There is literally nothing you can do about drug gangs. There is bigger nation's than ours that can't fight it. There is cartels more powerful than governments across the world. The problem is the demand is there and while that's there you can lock up all the gangs you want, another will be there waiting to step in.

marieholmfan

rob316 wrote: »

There is literally nothing you can do about drug gangs. There is bigger nation's than ours that can't fight it. There is cartels more powerful than governments across the world. The problem is the demand is there and while that's there you can lock up all the gangs you want, another will be there waiting to step in.

The Chinese solved this problem 70 years ago.

smelly sock

I think the key might lie in the unpalatable suggestion that most of these scumbags are lost causes. Society and do gooder liberal types need to accept this. Mulready was sentenced to 4 months for petrol bombing a house? 4 months?
It should have been 20 years at least with no remission. Toughen up the prisons also. These scrotes arent afraid of a stint in the clink. Make it as uncomfortable as possible for them. Put the ****ers to work. Make them earn any rewards they might get.
Throw away the ley for the real dangerous nutcases.

rob316

marieholmfan wrote: »

The Chinese solved this problem 70 years ago.

Do elaborate.

sonic85

First thing that needs to be done is we need a new prison and start handing out long sentences. Take these lads off the streets until they're old and grey and no longer a threat. I googled one of the lads on that list posted earlier and one article said he has something like 124 previous convictions. I mean come on to fcuk that's not right - what are we doing allowing lads like that to walk around free as a bird? Its mind boggling

rob316

smelly sock wrote: »

I think the key might lie in the unpalatable suggestion that most of these scumbags are lost causes. Society and do gooder liberal types need to accept this. Mulready was sentenced to 4 months for petrol bombing a house? 4 months?
It should have been 20 years at least with no remission. Toughen up the prisons also. These scrotes arent afraid of a stint in the clink. Make it as uncomfortable as possible for them. Put the ****ers to work. Make them earn any rewards they might get.
Throw away the ley for the real dangerous nutcases.

And someone else will just step in. The financial gain is huge and will always be attractive regardless of the risk.

They can also run there drug empires from behind bars.

anewme

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Has his school or former school made any statement or is that long over?

I'd feel for any students in the same year as him.

uck51js9zml2yt

Feisar wrote: »

Fair points, have you any ideas?

Put them all on Craggy Island with Dougal and FR Jack.

They'll be sorted in no time!

This is it

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Has his school or former school made any statement or is that long over?

What would you expect them to say?

smelly sock

sonic85 wrote: »

First thing that needs to be done is we need a new prison and start handing out long sentences. Take these lads off the streets until they're old and grey and no longer a threat. I googled one of the lads on that list posted earlier and one article said he has something like 124 previous convictions. I mean come on to fcuk that's not right - what are we doing allowing lads like that to walk around free as a bird? Its mind boggling

3 strikes and you're out would go a long way. I'd love to know if there are any stats to show how much in legal aid has been spent on this ****er. That night explain why the legal system wont reform. Literally an ATM.

smelly sock

rob316 wrote: »

And someone else will just step in. The financial gain is huge and will always be attractive regardless of the risk.

They can also run there drug empires from behind bars.

Not if the prisons are actually run like, well prisons.

ILoveYourVibes

marieholmfan wrote: »

The Chinese solved this problem 70 years ago.

They really haven't.

KiKi III

smelly sock wrote: »

Decriminalise drugs. The Govt will over tax them thus neutralising any if the benefits such a move would have toward organised crime etc.

The criminals like this man would under cut them and still make a packet.

The government puts a huge amount of tax on cigs and alcohol, and while there is a black market, almost everyone buys theirs through legitimate establishments.

Also, “it won’t solve the problem 100% so there’s no point trying it” is a defeatist attitude in the absence of any better ideas.

sonic85

smelly sock wrote: »

3 strikes and you're out would go a long way. I'd love to know if there are any stats to show how much in legal aid has been spent on this ****er. That night explain why the legal system wont reform. Literally an ATM.

3 strikes might be a little bit on the low side but I definitely think if someone racks up a string of convictions for serious crimes then they're not going to change and that should be it for them for a long time. Theres two problems though as I see it - the judiciary are a bunch of clowns and we dont have the prison space to put these lads away for a good stretch. Both those issues need sorting.

fawlty682

Ridiculous change in the law when child’s age was amended to its 18th Birthday. Previously, you were an adult in law until 17th birthday. 17 year olds are not children. They are way more streetwise than the 17 year old in the 80s.

rob316

It doesn't work guys it's been proven all over the world. You can't win the war on drugs through policing and the courts. It's a global problem.
You can put away a Gilligan but someone else will just take over.

rob316

smelly sock wrote: »

Not if the prisons are actually run like, well prisons.

It's not a deterrent, the worst jails around the world are full of drug gang members locked up indefinitely.

KiKi III

rob316 wrote: »

It doesn't work guys it's been proven all over the world. You can't win the war on drugs through policing and the courts. It's a global problem.
You can put away a Gilligan but someone else will just take over.

That’s basically why decriminalisation is the answer. You then pump a lot of money into mental health support and tackling addiction as well to break the cycle.

smelly sock

rob316 wrote: »

It's not a deterrent, the worst jails around the world are full of drug gang members locked up indefinitely.

But its somewhere to put the animals and punish the.

There is no deterrent for most of these animals. We need to forget about that.

mdwexford

smelly sock wrote: »

3 strikes and you're out would go a long way. I'd love to know if there are any stats to show how much in legal aid has been spent on this ****er. That night explain why the legal system wont reform. Literally an ATM.

The whole legal aid merry go round is a complete joke. Nobody ever seems to mention it.

€65 million in 2018.

smelly sock

rob316 wrote: »

It doesn't work guys it's been proven all over the world. You can't win the war on drugs through policing and the courts. It's a global problem.
You can put away a Gilligan but someone else will just take over.

Does that mean Gilligan should have been let off?

sonic85

rob316 wrote: »

It doesn't work guys it's been proven all over the world. You can't win the war on drugs through policing and the courts. It's a global problem.
You can put away a Gilligan but someone else will just take over.

All these lads are dangerous bastrds and need to be taken off the streets. If it wasnt drugs they'd be into some other shyte making people's lives a misery. People with 20, 50, 100 previous convictions shouldn't be walking around simple as that.

rob316

smelly sock wrote: »

Does that mean Gilligan should have been let off?

Of course not you need to be held accountable for your crimes. But I was just pointing out it didn't dent the trade he ran it from behind bars or someone else stepped in and that will always be the case while the demand is there.

Antares35

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not saying him. I mean the people that were unlucky enough to live around him.


I guess what i am saying is we have a profound affect on our environment. All of us. Drug dealers do teachers do politicians do. We have to make sure the positive affect outweighs the evil affects.

You can't beat evil with evil. It just grows angrier and more bitter.

What's this we business? WE dont have to do anything. I go to work, pay my tax and contributions. Educate and further myself to pay more tax and contributions. I live a compliant life and contribute to society, as do many others. WE do not have any duty to somehow counter the negativity that these pond scum create.

Uriel.

KiKi III wrote: »

The decriminalisation of all drugs per the highly successful Portuguese model would deprive the gangs of a huge chunk of their income so that’s where I’d start.

After that, a mixture of the carrot and the stick I suppose:

- longer sentences for violent crime
- more, better trained, armed police in the worst effected areas
- early intervention programs starting in primary school
- incentives for kids from those areas to go on to third level

I’m no expert though, just spitballing.

- increased powers and/or resources for CAB and targeted proactive interventions against crime families and gangs - make it impossible for them to live and spend their money in Ireland
- converting child benefit from a monthly payment into a tax credit

ILoveYourVibes

Antares35 wrote: »

What's this we business? WE dont have to do anything. I go to work, pay my tax and contributions. Educate and further myself to pay more tax and contributions. I live a compliant life and contribute to society, as do many others. WE do not have any duty to somehow counter the negativity that these pond scum create.

There is no you without we. You will drown too.

Suckit

It's like we're living in a modern day prohibition, early enough to prune it. But with the endless supply of cocaine (the main fuel in this) coming in, mostly via the Kinahans it's only going to get worse as they each fight for a larger piece of the 'business'.
Eventually the most ruthless scumbags will be sitting at the top and giving orders to at least a hundred more ruthless scumbags under each of them. Owning Gardaí, running protection rackets on councils and businesses, all the while legit businesses close down on the high streets while rents increase and footfall decreases.
It's bleak it's looking.
It's probably bleaker than that.

Signore Fancy Pants

If you are conducting intimidation tactics on behalf of criminals and drug gangs....you are not a child.

dd973

The state has a lot to answer for regarding this squalid 'gangland' pile of s**te which is glamourised by the Paul Williams, the Indo and the Sunday World, it's been allowed to fester ever since the days of Martin Cahill.

I always get the sense that a lot of people get a weird voyeuristic buzz out of it feeding off the lawless 'wild Irish' self caricature.

There wouldn't be such an underclass if we followed a more Benelux or Nordic model of society even though it was always the case that the existing state apparatus and legal system would by and large deliver an 'Anglo' society as much as we self-pleasure ourselves about being 'Not British/English'.

Another legacy of colonial rule is that people love being outraged, appalled or looking down their noses at the Deco's, the John-Paul's and the Tracey's but aren't the slightest bit interested in improving social mobility as they viscerally enjoy having these people 'in their inferior place'.

NIMAN

What is all the outraged public stopped taking cocaine?

What if there was no demand any more?

No point in saying " that murder was shocking " then heading out on Saturday night and snorting a few lines down your local club.

ILoveYourVibes

I am not sure why we are focusing on whether or not he was a child.

It doesn't matter its still awful.