Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

Henry Ford III

Deleted User wrote: »

My suspicion is that within their accounts lies a series of other, more serious issues and consequences for those running the club.

Who knows?

thomond2006

The authorities would be confused by the BIZARRE IRREGULARITIES IN THE ACCOUNTS.

Zzippy

Dylan Hartley makes a good point here about the practical advantage the cheating gave Saracens...

https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE/status/1224460560848293888?s=19

prawnsambo

Zzippy wrote: »

Dylan Hartley makes a good point here about the practical advantage the cheating gave Saracens...

https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE/status/1224460560848293888?s=19

Who knew that the guy we all love to hate would turn out to be a very good pundit. Love the way he talks about his own bans and "criminal versatility".

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigel Wray has two arses.

Where is Father Ted's right boot when you need him?

Dave_The_Sheep

He does seem to have no problem taking the piss out of himself alright, quite like that. I did like his line about Northampton getting their money's worth out of him "when i wasn't suspended".

prawnsambo

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

He does seem to have no problem taking the piss out of himself alright, quite like that. I did like his line about Northampton getting their money's worth out of him "when i wasn't suspended".

Yeah. It was always said by those who knew him that he was a really nice guy. Just hard to reconcile that with his behaviour on the pitch at times. Hopefully he gets more of the pundit work because he's interesting to listen to.

irishbucsfan

There’s a reason he captained everyone he played for, hardly a shock he’s not some evil dope surely

Squidgy Black

Taken from another thread but this is probably going to be one of the bigger blows if true. They'll be desperate for the Wray family to keep injecting cash into the club but something tells me with the way things have transpired he might not continue to on the same scale at all.

https://twitter.com/MattHughesDM/status/1224958029147398144?s=19

Buer

Was expected. I think it was suggested about a dozen times on this thread already.

They're in freefall as a club. Just when things appear to go quiet they take another body shot.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Was expected. I think it was suggested about a dozen times on this thread already.

They're in freefall as a club. Just when things appear to go quiet they take another body shot.

There is a real risk the club doesn't recover from this.

They've always been an expensive indulgence of Wray's but their P&L sheet is going to look horrific at the start of next season and only his money is going to keep them from administration.

It's a sad and precarious situation.

Shefwedfan

I would bet most of the larger companies will jump ship. Good on them as well. Who would want their brand assocaiated with a group of cheats!!!

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Nigel Wray has two arses.

Perfect for turning the other cheek.....:D

jacothelad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would bet most of the larger companies will jump ship. Good on them as well. Who would want their brand assocaiated with a group of cheats!!!

The icing on this particular cake is what it will do to the mental health of megascrote Stephen Jones. He must be nearing the gasket exploding stage by now.

Squidgy Black

jacothelad wrote: »

The icing on this particular cake is what it will do to the mental health of megascrote Stephen Jones. He must be nearing the gasket exploding stage by now.

I'm sure he'll be tweeting telling everyone to change their insurance provider soon.

BonnieSituation

I do love on my daily forays into boards to see this thread updated.

Shefwedfan

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I do love on my daily forays into boards to see this thread updated.

It’s better crack on the Sarries forums as they scramble around for excuses, accuse everyone else and then just write little post asking other supporters not to take the piss out of them

If shoe was on other foot

mike_cork

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s better crack on the Sarries forums as they scramble around for excuses, accuse everyone else and then just write little post asking other supporters not to take the piss out of them

If shoe was on other foot

It's a global conspiracy according to (some) of the posters on the sarries forum.

mike_cork

mike_cork wrote: »

It's a global conspiracy according to (some) of the posters on the sarries forum.

mike_cork

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That made me laugh.

The main issue with sarries is the lack of remorse from their fans, former/current players & staff and from the club as a whole. They're sorry they got caught not that they engaged in systematic cheating for a decade +.

Guy:Incognito

Listening to last week's house of rugby pod, fairly disappointed to listen to Haskell, who I'd have had as a fairly straight talker before. Him and tindall at pains to say it wouldn't make a difference that they were all paid over the odds and playing down the whole thing and that they are just the best team. Saying the players are completely innocent parties in all this.

Former Former

mike_cork wrote: »

that they engaged in systematic cheating for a decade +.

What's this now?

Shefwedfan

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Listening to last week's house of rugby pod, fairly disappointed to listen to Haskell, who I'd have had as a fairly straight talker before. Him and tindall at pains to say it wouldn't make a difference that they were all paid over the odds and playing down the whole thing and that they are just the best team. Saying the players are completely innocent parties in all this.

To be fair the players are......

They just tried to get the best deal, its not like they would join Sarreis and go "no I don't want 200k, just give me 100k because I am concerned you are over the salary cap"


I am sure they all knew what was going on, they probably all knew it was as dodgy as hell but then again it is not their job to make sure what Wray was at was legal.



I don't blame the players.....to a point you can say McCaul is not part of it either if he just asked to sign XYZ and wasn't involved in them coming. Its the people above.

Guy:Incognito

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be fair the players are......

They just tried to get the best deal, its not like they would join Sarreis and go "no I don't want 200k, just give me 100k because I am concerned you are over the salary cap"


I am sure they all knew what was going on, they probably all knew it was as dodgy as hell but then again it is not their job to make sure what Wray was at was legal.



I don't blame the players.....to a point you can say McCaul is not part of it either if he just asked to sign XYZ and wasn't involved in them coming. Its the people above.

Of course the players will take the highest amount they can get, that's fair enough, but they knew full well what was going on. Otherwise they would just have a flat higher salary to do with as they please. It's just the claim that the poor little lambs didn't know any better.

That was kind of the secondary point anyway, my main issue was the passing off of the breaking of the salary cap like it made no difference to the club being successful .

You have Ugo Monye calling it financial doping and then some others scoffing at that and saying it made no difference. If it made no difference , Saracens would have paid out less money and won anyway, no one just gives away money for no reason, especially rich people .

Winters

Next month Saracens play Quins in Tottenham's stadium. Its the first annual match of a 5 year agreement between Spurs and Saracens signed back in April 2019.

I bet the Championship clubs cant wait to play there next season.

https://www.saracens.com/theshowdown/

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/april/tottenham-hotspur-and-saracens-announce-five-year-partnership/

connemara man

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1225753140772966401?s=19

Bogwoppit

connemara man wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1225753140772966401?s=19

It just gets better and better.

cantwbr1

connemara man wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1225753140772966401?s=19

Would the likely punishment for that be forfeiture of the match.
Could have a big impact on the q/final line ups

DelBoy Trotter

connemara man wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1225753140772966401?s=19

That club is actually being run by clowns

errlloyd

EPCR changed a London Welsh v Grenoble match from a Grenoble win to a London Welsh 28-0 a few years ago.

If they did that Racing would go from 5th seed to 2nd. And Glasgow would replace Sarries in 8th.

Every single fixture would change.

Guy:Incognito

Best of luck to anyone with any sort of administration role at Sarries on their CV in interviews in the future

daddy pig

They won't change the quarter final fixtures - no chance.

Too many tickets sold, flights booked etc it would be a disaster. It will be a fine only.

DelBoy Trotter

daddy pig wrote: »

They won't change the quarter final fixtures - no chance.

Too many tickets sold, flights booked etc it would be a disaster. It will be a fine only.

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

sydthebeat

why isnt there a "statue of limitations" type limit on these things?
the game was 19 days ago.
surely all paperwork needs to be submitted PRIOR to the game.

Lamositeles work permit expired the day before the game. He played 20 minutes of the game, in which sarries won by 3 points.

dub_skav

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

Could they do a straight swap I wonder?

Due to the unprecedented nature of it and as mentioned above flights, hotels etc booked.
Just leave all the quarters as is and send Glasgow to Dublin?

Not like Sarries will have taken up much of the allocation
Plus, Lansdowne should still have plenty seats left for Glasgow fans.

daddy pig

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

They may do as errlloyd pointed out, but I could see them dump Sarries out of the competition and letting Glasgow in in their place

Then you open it up to Racing complaining they should get the points from that game (and rightly so if Glasgow benefit) which changes the entire quarter final line up and changes a number of home venues as well.
It's never gonna happen.

As there is money involved, if the sanction is result reversal then they have to do that.

Glasgow would otherwise likely have a case against the EPCR for loss of revenue.

The rules have to be enforced. I don't know if this oversight falls under that level of Sanction however.

connemara man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As there is money involved, if the sanction is result reversal then they have to do that.

Glasgow would otherwise likely have a case against the EPCR for loss of revenue.

The rules have to be enforced. I don't know if this oversight falls under that level of Sanction however.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

EPCR changed a London Welsh v Grenoble match from a Grenoble win to a London Welsh 28-0 a few years ago.

If they did that Racing would go from 5th seed to 2nd. And Glasgow would replace Sarries in 8th.

Every single fixture would change.

So Ulster could end up playing Exeter away instead of Toulouse...that's a potential clustered*** for anyone who has booked flight and accomodation

connemara man

connemara man wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

They appear to be similar instances but there will be arguments for and against.

Looks grim for Saracens though.

Former Former

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

Eod100

Think EPCR would have preferred them being knocked out before now. If they still get to play Leinster it would be fairly poor I think

stephen_n

connemara man wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/358850/

That seems to be a precedent and we know the Scots like to threaten to sue.

rdwight

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/aug/11/celtic-legia-warsaw-champions-league-fair

"Bartosz Bereszynski, came on in the 88th minute. Bereszynski had no impact on the scoreline, but his mere presence on the pitch has since caused Legia to be expelled from the competition."

bilston

Former Former wrote: »

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

On the pitch I don't think it matters. We are up against in either scenario. Exeter is easier to get to...I think...but then most Ulster fans going to the Q/F will already have booked their flights/accomodation

KH25

Absolute mess, but surely action will have to be taken? Safest option would be a straight swap for Glasgow and leave the other games as they are to minimise the impact on teams and supporters, but then I’d say Racing would argue they should be set up for the home semi.

irishbucsfan

Because he was in the squad I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more lenient in this case

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

So a 28-0, 5 pt win for Racing would mean:

Leinster (28) v Glasgow (17)
Racing (27) v Saints (19)
Exeter (27) v Ulster (21)
Toulouse (27) v Clermont (24)

The 28-0 scoreline would see Racing leapfrog both Exeter and Toulouse on points difference and give Racing an almost guaranteed home semi-final.

Would it be good news for Ulster though?

Murray Kinsella quoted a few precedents (the Grenoble case above being one). The usual sanction has been points deductions and fines; anything between 2 and 4 points being deducted.

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because he was in the squad I wouldn’t be surprised if they are more lenient in this case

I dunno. The fact he didn't have a valid work permit is a fairly big ordeal in terms of insurance etc, and even from a legal standpoint could be troublesome.

Bridge93

Surely there is no precedent that keeps them in the tournament? Be it points deductions or result reversals it all adds up to the same thing