Cocaine

caff

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Say Coke was legalised or decriminalised tomorrow, do you think some people aren't going to go out and get absolutely hepped up to the eyeballs on it?

Anyone who provides schemes and programs in Switzerland, Netherlands or Portugal as a path as to where Ireland should be going is not looking at the significant mental health effects that will be incurred. Most of the information available on those situations doesn't have any coverage for mental health, there probably isn't a long enough time span to collect data so far but I imagine it's not being looked at.

You only have to look at when we had Headshops. People destroyed themselves, made pigs of themselves. Imagine an A&E on Saturday when the Coke fiends start swarming in, eyes wide, paranoid as ****, trying to do a Ben Dunne off the tallest object in sight.

So you want to keep the dealers and gangs in business? Show me one country that has solved the drug problem with prohibition. Look at the "success" of summary execution and zero tolerance in the Philippines. Look at how the death penalty in the US is such a deterrent.

Drumpot

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Say Coke was legalised or decriminalised tomorrow, do you think some people aren't going to go out and get absolutely hepped up to the eyeballs on it?

Anyone who provides schemes and programs in Switzerland, Netherlands or Portugal as a path as to where Ireland should be going is not looking at the significant mental health effects that will be incurred. Most of the information available on those situations doesn't have any coverage for mental health, there probably isn't a long enough time span to collect data so far but I imagine it's not being looked at.

You only have to look at when we had Headshops. People destroyed themselves, made pigs of themselves. Imagine an A&E on Saturday when the Coke fiends start swarming in, eyes wide, paranoid as ****, trying to do a Ben Dunne off the tallest object in sight.

That’s not necessarily relevant to the drug policy. Alcohol destroys lives of individuals and family’s. There is this perception that it’s somehow more acceptable way of destroying your life when it’s no less potent to people who become addicted to it and have already gone down a very dark hole. Maybe harder drugs can lead to that dark place quicker but The end result is the same. The difference is that it’s an accepted recreational drug, that’s it really.

There is currently a pharmaceutical epidemic on legal drugs but you don’t see drug wars over sleeping tablets or zanex or anti depressants. You could go further and suggest there is proof big pharmaceutical is selling its drugs on a lie and is facilitated by governments but that’s a different subject. The addictions people have with legal drugs can be equally as mentally damaging as any illegal hardcore narcotic. But again, we seem to think something legal versus something illegal makes a difference from a biological and/or moral viewpoint.

In terms of mental damage (specifically to people who are troubled), making somebody who takes a substance a criminal only compounds whatever issues they might have. You are making an already troubled person a criminal, how exact is that a progressive way of encouraging better mental health? How does that help? A lot of people (“criminals”) who take illegal drugs don’t bother or hurt anybody else, how does making them criminals help anything on any level?

eviltwin

Never had, never will have it. Maybe its a maturity thing, maybe it's because I'm a parent but the idea of putting drugs into my body never appealed to me. Too much risk involved. I hope I've done a good job with my kids that they would feel the same.

SEPT 23 1989

Irish people love it because it allows us to drink even more gargle than usual

Potential-Monke

eviltwin wrote: »

Never had, never will have it. Maybe its a maturity thing, maybe it's because I'm a parent but the idea of putting drugs into my body never appealed to me. Too much risk involved. I hope I've done a good job with my kids that they would feel the same.

To roll out the old argument here, have you ever drank coffee, tea, coca cola, alcohol or smoked cigarettes/pipes? Or even so far as a Nurofen, or any paracetamol? If you've done a good job with your kids, you'll know when they're adults, regardless of what drugs they put into their system. So many functioning adults out there who smoke weed, or take coke, and you're none the wiser as they seem 'normal' (which they are).

I always use the following example if I can. I suffer with anxiety, albeit minimal these days due to changing career, location and many other aspects. But, in the peak of it, I could have multiple anxiety attacks in a day. Went to the doctor who advised on some anti-anxiety medication, most of which have the following side effects:

Drowsiness
Tiredness
Dizziness
Sleep problems (insomnia)
Memory problems
Poor balance or coordination
Slurred speech
Trouble concentrating
Irritability
Diarrhea
Constipation
Increased sweating
Headache
Nausea
Vomiting
Upset stomach
Blurred vision
Appetite or weight changes
Swelling in your hands or feet
Muscle weakness
Dry mouth
Stuffy nose
Loss of interest in sex

Some even have the side effect of an increase in suicidal tenancies. They're all legal drugs, which millions of people take daily. I tried them and I was not me, and I eventually said no, not putting a concoction of man made chemicals into my body when the list of side effects is that long, or even worse, increased suicidal tendencies, all so GlaxoSmithKleine bosses can keep their multiple holidays. Now let's look at the illegal version, cannabis:

Rapid heart beat
Dizziness
Depression (I don't believe this one personally, but howsever)
Hallucination
Low blood pressure
Paranoia
Food cravings

So it's a choice of 2 bads, and we would pick the best of the 2, which in this case is the illegal one (some of the side effects aren't even bad - food cravings, hallucination - but this is very rare imo). And I can grow it myself, under my own supervision and 100% free of any additions. Better yet, there are specific strains out there to deal with specific ailments, all without the list of side effects as per legal medication.

Each to their own and all that, but I think people dismissing all drugs as bad jut because they're illegal is just wrong.

- MDMA is currently being used to successfully treat PTSD
- There are so many stories of people taking mushrooms and their lives changing completely for the better because of it, and is also used to treat OCD, long-term cluster headaches and anxiety/depression
- Cocaine is a good topical anaesthetic and can be used to treat IBD and chronic headaches
- Morphine is basically heroin, and people have used small doses to get off prescribed painkillers, like Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycotin, etc.
- New studies show Ketamine could be used to treat depression (it aids in the growth of brain synapses)
- LSD (acid) can be a viable form of treatment for alcoholism
- Cannabis: Such a massive list of it's potential (and anecdotally proven) benefits (search "Charlottes Web" or "Medical Marijuana and Parkinsons Part 3 of 3" on YouTube)

Graces7

Has anyone looked at the Canadian scene these days? I know someone there who rents from someone who grows for the govt now.

The idea of taking questionable drugs simply for recreation palls for me. Same as drink does. Same as psycho active meds. The only meds I will take and those sparingly are for pain relief to avoid total immobility. Life is rich enough without needing recreational drugs. Just see no need.

Graces7

Implausible casuistry.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

To roll out the old argument here, have you ever drank coffee, tea, coca cola, alcohol or smoked cigarettes/pipes? Or even so far as a Nurofen, or any paracetamol? If you've done a good job with your kids, you'll know when they're adults, regardless of what drugs they put into their system. So many functioning adults out there who smoke weed, or take coke, and you're none the wiser as they seem 'normal' (which they are).

I always use the following example if I can. I suffer with anxiety, albeit minimal these days due to changing career, location and many other aspects. But, in the peak of it, I could have multiple anxiety attacks in a day. Went to the doctor who advised on some anti-anxiety medication, most of which have the following side effects:

Drowsiness
Tiredness
Dizziness
Sleep problems (insomnia)
Memory problems
Poor balance or coordination
Slurred speech
Trouble concentrating
Irritability
Diarrhea
Constipation
Increased sweating
Headache
Nausea
Vomiting
Upset stomach
Blurred vision
Appetite or weight changes
Swelling in your hands or feet
Muscle weakness
Dry mouth
Stuffy nose
Loss of interest in sex

Some even have the side effect of an increase in suicidal tenancies. They're all legal drugs, which millions of people take daily. I tried them and I was not me, and I eventually said no, not putting a concoction of man made chemicals into my body when the list of side effects is that long, or even worse, increased suicidal tendencies, all so GlaxoSmithKleine bosses can keep their multiple holidays. Now let's look at the illegal version, cannabis:

Rapid heart beat
Dizziness
Depression (I don't believe this one personally, but howsever)
Hallucination
Low blood pressure
Paranoia
Food cravings

So it's a choice of 2 bads, and we would pick the best of the 2, which in this case is the illegal one (some of the side effects aren't even bad - food cravings, hallucination - but this is very rare imo). And I can grow it myself, under my own supervision and 100% free of any additions. Better yet, there are specific strains out there to deal with specific ailments, all without the list of side effects as per legal medication.

Each to their own and all that, but I think people dismissing all drugs as bad jut because they're illegal is just wrong.

- MDMA is currently being used to successfully treat PTSD
- There are so many stories of people taking mushrooms and their lives changing completely for the better because of it, and is also used to treat OCD, long-term cluster headaches and anxiety/depression
- Cocaine is a good topical anaesthetic and can be used to treat IBD and chronic headaches
- Morphine is basically heroin, and people have used small doses to get off prescribed painkillers, like Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycotin, etc.
- New studies show Ketamine could be used to treat depression (it aids in the growth of brain synapses)
- LSD (acid) can be a viable form of treatment for alcoholism
- Cannabis: Such a massive list of it's potential (and anecdotally proven) benefits (search "Charlottes Web" or "Medical Marijuana and Parkinsons Part 3 of 3" on YouTube)

Potential-Monke

Graces7 wrote: »

Implausible casuistry.

Would you like to expand on your fancy words?

Drumpot

eviltwin wrote: »

Never had, never will have it. Maybe its a maturity thing, maybe it's because I'm a parent but the idea of putting drugs into my body never appealed to me. Too much risk involved. I hope I've done a good job with my kids that they would feel the same.

I don’t believe it’s anything to do with maturity. I’ve three children and I hope I can use what I have personally learned from life to help them navigate whatever drugs they are drawn to (drink, pharma and illegal).

This is not a question of moral character in Individuals. I think that possibly the greatest challenge is understanding and education for everybody but people have to learn to open their ears to learn new things. It’s not so long ago that being Gay was considered some sort of corruption of individuals. Humans wanting to take mind altering substances is just part of our makeup. If you have coffee or drink energy drinks or smoke or drink alcohol or take any substance to make you happier or feel better you are just being human.

Sure nobody even mentions cigerrettes (death sticks) because they have been accepted as an ok death drug. I work in insurance , the % increase of health issues in smokers is frightening. There are just so many contradictions in this topic. (Just saying in general , not necessarily directed at you).

Graces7

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Would you like to expand on your fancy words?

Maybe later?

LuasSimon

Listening to a bloke at work saying 5 young people have died from drugs primarily cocaine in a small village in county limerick in the past year where he is from .
Fine Gael don’t seem to give a fcuk about crime

lastusername

This has nothing to do with cocaine. If cocaine were legal, there'd be another illegal drug that people would want.

Young people getting involved in gangs has nothing to do with drugs either. It's their thinking that getting involved will make their lives better that leads them to take that action.

If they were to have that insight that "ah, this is literally just a thought that I'm having, I don't need to buy into it or follow through with it", that can be the difference between going the wrong route, or not.

This is an education issue, a case of reaching people and helping them see something, to see there are always other options. Hopefully that's where the focus will lie from now on.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

caff wrote: »

So you want to keep the dealers and gangs in business? Show me one country that has solved the drug problem with prohibition. Look at the "success" of summary execution and zero tolerance in the Philippines. Look at how the death penalty in the US is such a deterrent.

Nonsense, don't attribute those words to me. Show me where I've advocated for tolerating drug dealers and gangs. I've highlighted the fact that increased drug use will have a knock-on effect on mental health.

MrMusician18

Potential-Monke wrote: »

To roll out the old argument here, have you ever drank coffee, tea, coca cola, alcohol or smoked cigarettes/pipes? Or even so far as a Nurofen, or any paracetamol? If you've done a good job with your kids, you'll know when they're adults, regardless of what drugs they put into their system. So many functioning adults out there who smoke weed, or take coke, and you're none the wiser as they seem 'normal' (which they are).

I always use the following example if I can. I suffer with anxiety, albeit minimal these days due to changing career, location and many other aspects. But, in the peak of it, I could have multiple anxiety attacks in a day. Went to the doctor who advised on some anti-anxiety medication, most of which have the following side effects:

Drowsiness
Tiredness
Dizziness
Sleep problems (insomnia)
Memory problems
Poor balance or coordination
Slurred speech
Trouble concentrating
Irritability
Diarrhea
Constipation
Increased sweating
Headache
Nausea
Vomiting
Upset stomach
Blurred vision
Appetite or weight changes
Swelling in your hands or feet
Muscle weakness
Dry mouth
Stuffy nose
Loss of interest in sex

Some even have the side effect of an increase in suicidal tenancies. They're all legal drugs, which millions of people take daily. I tried them and I was not me, and I eventually said no, not putting a concoction of man made chemicals into my body when the list of side effects is that long, or even worse, increased suicidal tendencies, all so GlaxoSmithKleine bosses can keep their multiple holidays. Now let's look at the illegal version, cannabis:

Rapid heart beat
Dizziness
Depression (I don't believe this one personally, but howsever)
Hallucination
Low blood pressure
Paranoia
Food cravings

So it's a choice of 2 bads, and we would pick the best of the 2, which in this case is the illegal one (some of the side effects aren't even bad - food cravings, hallucination - but this is very rare imo). And I can grow it myself, under my own supervision and 100% free of any additions. Better yet, there are specific strains out there to deal with specific ailments, all without the list of side effects as per legal medication.

Each to their own and all that, but I think people dismissing all drugs as bad jut because they're illegal is just wrong.

- MDMA is currently being used to successfully treat PTSD
- There are so many stories of people taking mushrooms and their lives changing completely for the better because of it, and is also used to treat OCD, long-term cluster headaches and anxiety/depression
- Cocaine is a good topical anaesthetic and can be used to treat IBD and chronic headaches
- Morphine is basically heroin, and people have used small doses to get off prescribed painkillers, like Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycotin, etc.
- New studies show Ketamine could be used to treat depression (it aids in the growth of brain synapses)
- LSD (acid) can be a viable form of treatment for alcoholism
- Cannabis: Such a massive list of it's potential (and anecdotally proven) benefits (search "Charlottes Web" or "Medical Marijuana and Parkinsons Part 3 of 3" on YouTube)

What a load of irrelevant bollocks. Cocaine is used in Ireland to achieve a high not for it's very limited medicinal purposes.

Potential-Monke

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What a load of irrelevant bollocks. Cocaine is used in Ireland to achieve a high not for it's very limited medicinal purposes.

WHOOSH!

That's my point, by keeping it illegal that's all it will be used for. Decriminalising it would open it up to other uses, mainly medical, which many countries are already doing, meanwhile Ireland has a 5 year test plan for cannabis prescription for 3 very specific illnesses, and so far can only be purchased from companies outside Ireland.

JupiterKid

I have smoked cannabis for over 25 years (only occasionally these days) and apart from a couple of incredibly strong “skunk” strains in Amsterdam 20 years back that made me paranoid and very edgy, weed and hash relaxes me and chills me out and when I drank alcohol socially after a joint (which I used to do quite a bit in the 1990s and 2000s) I would drink far less than without a smoke beforehand. It is also a great aphrodisiac!

It is ridiculous that cannabis still illegal here - but decriminalisation is on way - it’s only a matter of when.

I also used to suffer horrendous migraine headaches from about the age of 9 up to my early 20s, often once a week or more. Very debilitating and the pain and nausea were a nightmare. After taking LSD a few times in the mid 90s when I was in college, the headaches stopped. I now only get a migraine maybe once a year, if even.

Thank You Come Again

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

Potential-Monke

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

True, it's not, alcohol is so much worse! It's literally a poison.

dartboardio

JupiterKid wrote: »

I have smoked cannabis for over 25 years (only occasionally these days) and apart from a couple of incredibly strong “skunk” strains in Amsterdam 20 years back that made me paranoid and very edgy, weed and hash relaxes me and chills me out and when I drank alcohol socially after a joint (which I used to do quite a bit in the 1990s and 2000s) I would drink far less than without a smoke beforehand. It is also a great aphrodisiac!

It is ridiculous that cannabis still illegal here - but decriminalisation is on way - it’s only a matter of when.

I also used to suffer horrendous migraine headaches from about the age of 9 up to my early 20s, often once a week or more. Very debilitating and the pain and nausea were a nightmare. After taking LSD a few times in the mid 90s when I was in college, the headaches stopped. I now only get a migraine maybe once a year, if even.

It agrees with others and doesn't.

I hate cannabis, I smoked it for years and it made me anxious, and paranoid from smoking it long term.

It shouldn't be legalised imo. Also makes people very lazy and generally lose brain cells.

Andrew00

I'm out on the beer all the time with the lads and never see any cocaine use

Its all blown out of proportion.

Thank You Come Again

Potential-Monke wrote: »

True, it's not, alcohol is so much worse! It's literally a poison.

A ban pint gives me a hangover. A bad pill kills you. Not the same.

Doctor Nick

Andrew00 wrote: »

I'm out on the beer all the time with the lads and never see any cocaine use

Its all blown out of proportion.

It's usually done in the Jack's. Most of the time you wouldn't know if person is being sensible.

Potential-Monke

dartboardio wrote: »

It agrees with others and doesn't.

I hate cannabis, I smoked it for years and it made me anxious, and paranoid from smoking it long term.

It shouldn't be legalised imo. Also makes people very lazy and generally lose brain cells.

You were smoking the wrong strains (a problem with it being illegal, you just get what you get), or it just wasn't for you. Also, tell the laziness part of it to Elon Musk, Snoop Dogg, Willie Nelson, Sir Patrick Stewart, Jay Z, Bill Maher, Rihanna, Hunter S. Thompson, Carl Sagan, Bill Gates, Michael Phelps... I can go on.

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

A ban pint gives me a hangover. A bad pill kills you. Not the same.

What about a pint of poitin? Or tainted alcohol. Tainted alcohol will kill you quick, and tainted alcohol is akin to a bad drug. The purity of the drug has a lot to do with it, and obviously if it's cut/mixed/made with bad stuff it can kill, but pure MDMA in proper doses won't kill, neither will coke, LSD, or most of them tbh. You're comparing all drugs against a single bad pint, and I'm sure a bad pint in your book is just one that tastes bad. It's fairer to compare bad drugs to tainted alcohol.

All just my opinion by the way. And it won't change.

jus_tin4

MrMusician18 wrote: »

In the context of ever increasing consumption of cocaine in Ireland, I thought the following from the gardai investigating Keane Mulready-Woods gruesome murder was interesting. Indeed, given the typical demographic of this site, there are large numbers of cocaine users on this site. So, do you think cocaine users in Ireland have some responsibility for the gang warfare that is destroying parts of the country?

I guess the users do in the sense everyone has a social responsibility, but the drug trade is unlikely to ever stop, so why not control it? I’m of the opinion it is up to the person to choose what they do. Obviously rules/laws for socialite have to exist like murder and such, but the law isn’t extract going to stop someone doing something they shouldn’t... and the real kingpins in the drug trade they are never going to stop... legalise it and it takes the control away...

Duke of Url

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

So Explain how alcoholism is not as bad as drug addiction.

TheRepentent

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Would you like to expand on your fancy words?

Not a hope ...that user will run off to her Island to milk the cats

TheRepentent

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe later?

Nailed it.

tuxy

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

Of course it's not the same, for one drug the money goes to legitimate companies.
The other drugs the money goes to scumbags, if only there was a way of redirecting that money.....

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s not necessarily relevant to the drug policy.

The effects of drugs on mental health are absolutely relevant to drug policy. What I'm saying is there isn't enough time gone by and data compiled to accurately look at what the effects of decriminalisation or legalisation are on mental health in the countries where these programs have taken place.

If there is, if someone happens to have it, I'd gladly look at it, I'd be interested to look at it. I think it should be shared and if I find data like this tonight I will share it.

There will be significant effects on mental health in the event of drug decriminalisation and legalisation and people who advocate these programs need to accept that and start building this into any conception of what that would look like in Ireland.

It's not going to be overnight sunshine and lollipops if laws are changed in favour of drug use. I know this must annoy a lot of people, because those people are responsible, know when enough is enough, take care of themselves and others around them when using class A drugs, but there are plenty who don't and who won't. I think the latter is in a more serious group because these are the people who will require hospitalisation, police, legal services, imprisonment because of doing something while on drugs.

I think it's worrying because we are in a country that has a notoriously poor approach to mental health with seriously taxed health services.

Look at our own experiences with the headshops. I think we had them open 2 years? There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of people losing the head, and there are figures to compare with the closure of the headshops - drug-related admissions to psychiatric facilities jumped by about 20 per cent (from 713 in 2009 to 857 in 2010) in the years that the headshops were open.

After the laws against them came in, the rate fell from 857 in 2010 to 729 in 2011 and 702 in 2012. That's almost back to the rate before the phenomena began.

tuxy

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Look at our own experiences with the headshops. I think we had them open 2 years? There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of people losing the head, and there are figures to compare with the closure of the headshops - drug-related admissions to psychiatric facilities jumped by about 20 per cent (from 713 in 2009 to 857 in 2010) in the years that the headshops were open.

After the laws against them came in, the rate fell from 857 in 2010 to 729 in 2011 and 702 in 2012. That's almost back to the rate before the phenomena began.

Headshops were a result of prohibition.
They sold weird analogues and newly discovered chemicals labelled as bath salts and plant food. Of course these things would have an awful impact on the health of many. These substances were not even what people really wanted to buy given the choice of this or mainstream drugs.

Thank You Come Again

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

You do realise that’s an argument for legalization?

It’s only “random ****” of uncertain provenance because of prohibition.
Legalisation and regulation removes that additional layer of risk.

dartboardio

dartboardio wrote: »

It agrees with others and doesn't.

I hate cannabis, I smoked it for years and it made me anxious, and paranoid from smoking it long term.

It shouldn't be legalised imo. Also makes people very lazy and generally lose brain cells.

Something didn’t work for you so it should be banned for everybody else including those who can handle it no problem?

How considerate.

Doctor Nick

tuxy wrote: »

Headshops were a result of prohibition.
They sold weird analogues and newly discovered chemicals labelled as bath salts and plant food. Of course these things would have an awful impact on the health of many. These substances were not even what people really wanted to buy given the choice of this or mainstream drugs.

Yep, headshops did nasty stuff. Even the long term addicts used to say it was much worse than the illegal stuff. Unfortunately, I still indulged and that was my demise as ultimately they led to a 6 year heroin habit.

BurnUp78

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Yep, headshops did nasty stuff. Even the long term addicts used to say it was much worse than the illegal stuff. Unfortunately, I still indulged and that was my demise as ultimately they led to a 6 year heroin habit.

I was 15/16 and down in the head shop smoking the synthetic weed everyday after school, crazy high off the stuff was more like tripping than getting stoned!

tdf7187

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think people are shocked by such changes anymore. It's been gradually going that way for decades... but then, I guess there's a general apathy about the changes because the hard-line stance hasn't worked. The banning of drugs hasn't removed them, and if anything, their presence has increased a hundredfold in the last twenty years. I can remember when Speed or E were considered the worst of the incoming drugs, with heroin being around but generally hidden away in derelict houses. Cocaine was the drug of the hyper rich. That's not the case anymore.

The problem is that people want a polite friendly police force but don't want to give the Gardai the freedom to deal with the criminals in the manner they need to. I remember what Athlone was like in the late 80s/90s with the drugs and violent crime... the Gardai finally descended in force, and had a field day with those involved... Hardly a fair and gentle approach, but it cleared out the worst offenders for two decades after...

People often consider harsher sentencing to be important, but don't want to appear too hard on the criminals while they're inside, or worse yet, fully acknowledge that incarceration on its own doesn't work. So, we get lots of half arsed measures which ultimately do nothing but defer the problems on to the next generation.

So, no... I don't think anyone with an ounce (no pun) of sense is shocked by how their neighborhood or Ireland has declined in the last few decades with regards to drugs or violent crime...

This idea that drugs in country towns are a new thing is really not correct, I was aware anecdotally that Athlone had a big problem back then as you mention. Granted cocaine is a lot more pervasive these days it seems.

Apollinaris

tuxy wrote: »

Prohibition does not work, never has never will.

Wise words. Death penalty does.

Potential-Monke

Apollinaris wrote: »

Wise words. Death penalty does.

So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?

Apollinaris

Potential-Monke wrote: »

So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?

I never said to the users. Users really need to take a long hard look at themselves though what the impact of their using is. Of course everybody says it’s only bit of a laugh and everybody does it anyways, so what’s the harm? If there was no using there would be very little violent crime , and no they shouldn’t be legalised.

Potential-Monke

Apollinaris wrote: »

I never said to the users. Users really need to take a long hard look at themselves though what the impact of their using is. Of course everybody says it’s only bit of a laugh and everybody does it anyways, so what’s the harm? If there was no using there would be very little violent crime , and no they shouldn’t be legalised.

Oh thanks for the good laugh! Unless you're being serious? In which case, can you provide evidence of said claim?

I was a Garda, and while drugs (usually alcohol) were a contributing factor in some crime, there doesn't always have to be a connection. Yes, public order offences usually involved drink or a drug of some kind, but violent crime is not always committed because of drugs, or under the influence of drugs.

tdf7187

tdf7187 wrote: »

This idea that drugs in country towns are a new thing is really not correct, I was aware anecdotally that Athlone had a big problem back then as you mention. Granted cocaine is a lot more pervasive these days it seems.

When I was a teenager, it was easier to get cannabis than alcohol (apart from some cider, or paint cleaner). It was brought in with the traveller community, and we all knew someone who could hook you up. Awful quality mixed with all manner of crap but quite cheap. TBH, I wasn't really aware of harder drugs apart from Heroin until I went to college (Sligo first), where Speed/E was the drug of choice, although cannabis was still very common.

There's a photo "hidden" in my parents attic, of my father/mother smoking a reefer while in the west of Ireland from the mid 60s. Always wondered until I saw the photo why my parents were so sensible about drug use...

Apollinaris

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Oh thanks for the good laugh! Unless you're being serious? In which case, can you provide evidence of said claim?

I was a Garda, and while drugs (usually alcohol) were a contributing factor in some crime, there doesn't always have to be a connection. Yes, public order offences usually involved drink or a drug of some kind, but violent crime is not always committed because of drugs, or under the influence of drugs.

I’m really glad I could made laugh an ex-Garda.

Thank You Come Again

Batrachotox wrote: »

You do realise that’s an argument for legalization?

It’s only “random ****” of uncertain provenance because of prohibition.
Legalisation and regulation removes that additional layer of risk.

No it's not. Face it, pills and other drugs are never going to be legal. But hey, keep playing Russian roulette with your mdma that some retard made in his room.

Feels good to be an adult and not have to get of my head to enjoy life.

MrMusician18

Potential-Monke wrote: »

So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?

Actually there is a cocaine "vaccine" in development. Once inoculated, it no longer has an effect. dAd5GNE is in clinical trial and may well be ready in 2025.

Apollinaris

Apollinaris wrote: »

Wise words. Death penalty does.

Actually it doesn't. Otherwise China or the US wouldn't have such issues with drug usage. China has a zero tolerance policy regarding drug usage (unless you're incredibly rich, and even then, you're walking on a razor)

Many people don't believe they will get caught. Even near misses, are notched up as bad luck and quickly forgotten. And then, there's the people who believe that they aren't afraid of dying, and regardless of whether that's true or not, they'll continue until they're facing the actual event.

tuxy

Murder rates are usually higher in places that have it as punishment for murder.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tuxy wrote: »

Headshops were a result of prohibition.
They sold weird analogues and newly discovered chemicals labelled as bath salts and plant food. Of course these things would have an awful impact on the health of many. These substances were not even what people really wanted to buy given the choice of this or mainstream drugs.

How sure are you of this?

As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

Potential-Monke

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Actually there is a cocaine "vaccine" in development. Once inoculated, it no longer has an effect. dAd5GNE is in clinical trial and may well be ready in 2025.

I wasn't sure if you were taking the pish or not, mainly due to the name of the vaccine, so I had to Google and you are not taking the pish! Interesting, but it still depends on the person taking it before taking coke? Couldn't see if it is intended to be a one off treatment or continuous.

For anyone that wants to know, it basically uses your immune system to attack the coke before it passes the blood brain barrier and treat it like an infection, ie: get rid of it. Interesting indeed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Thank You Come Again wrote: »

Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

What's the difference?

tuxy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How sure are you of this?

As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

How sure am I that most of the people that used head shop would have preferred the more well documented and researched mainstream drugs?
I'm fairly sure. However there were a small minority that loved drugs like mephedrone from these shops.

Doctor Nick

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How sure are you of this?

As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

They were nasty. Especially mephedrone. A lot of addicts used to IV it and lost a lot of limbs. Of course, there is the argument they should never have IV'd it in the first place. Lots of it around even after the head shops closed although probably mixed with even nastier stuff.