Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

Snow Garden

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Syriza got elected during a tentative recovery, then managed to create a renewed crisis with their combative adolescent posturing toward the troika. Eventually they settled on a long series of compromises, U-turns, and retreats, during which Sinn Féin quietly disassociated themselves from their former radical left idols.

If Ireland had followed Sinn Féin's "burn the bondholders" advice during the financial crisis, we would be Greece today. Pearse Doherty, a college dropout, knows nothing about economics or finance. Forgive me for not wanting to see him elected as Minister for Finance.

It always puzzled me that many SF people think Pearse would be a better leader than Mary Lou or that Pearse would be a great minister for finance.
I think the complete opposite. Mary Lou was a huge improvement over Gerry but Pearse would be a big step backwards.

SmokyMo

Surely you cannot compare Ireland's economy to Greece, even political landscape.. That is just moronic. My cat with a lower IQ level would even know that.

JohnnyFlash

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Syriza got elected during a tentative recovery, then managed to create a renewed crisis with their combative adolescent posturing toward the troika. Eventually they settled on a long series of compromises, U-turns, and retreats, during which Sinn Féin quietly disassociated themselves from their former radical left idols.

If Ireland had followed Sinn Féin's "burn the bondholders" advice during the financial crisis, we would be Greece today. Pearse Doherty, a college dropout, knows nothing about economics or finance. Forgive me for not wanting to see him elected as Minister for Finance.

He does good bluster and outrage though.

nkl12xtw5goz70

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

He does good bluster and outrage though.

That's about all he's good at. That he dropped out of two different civil engineering courses suggests that sums are not his forte, and now he wants to be Minister for Finance.

pure.conya

if all we're going to do is vote, then sit on our arse until we're allowed vote again next time i have news for you, that only enables corruption, voting changes nothing, its what we do between votes that really matters

efanton

Snow Garden wrote: »

It always puzzled me that many SF people think Pearse would be a better leader than Mary Lou or that Pearse would be a great minister for finance.
I think the complete opposite. Mary Lou was a huge improvement over Gerry but Pearse would be a big step backwards.

Pearse Doherty is very hard working and is the type of person that will dig into the detail, put the hours in on one issue, but hes no great orator and just doesn't come across as a statesman.

Mary Lou on the other hand appears to be very much the opposite. Well able to argue a position, probably has a better overall picture of whats going on rather than all the details about one topic, and is also very hard working.
Together I think they would work as a great team for this country, if each played to there own strengths. Pearse would make a better finance minister than Mary Lou for instance, because he would be happy buried in one particular problem or issue. I think that would drive Mary Lou crazy.

Same with the other other party's. thank god we had Noonan as a finance minister and not Kenny.
Could you have imagined Bertie being finance minister, thing got really bad, but they would have been much worse if he had been finance minister.

road_high

Snow Garden wrote: »

It always puzzled me that many SF people think Pearse would be a better leader than Mary Lou or that Pearse would be a great minister for finance.
I think the complete opposite. Mary Lou was a huge improvement over Gerry but Pearse would be a big step backwards.

Shouting and roaring at people in and outside the Dail with cheap soundbites are what Shinners crave- Doherty delivers those in spades hence his popularity with them. I find him extemely agressive in his deameanour.
To the rest of us who use logic and crtical analysis it seems bizzare but this is essentially what SF is- a populist opposition with zero workable answers to problems- and their core supporters lap it up.

Salary Negotiator

efanton wrote: »

Could you have imagined Bertie being finance minister, thing got really bad, but they would have been much worse if he had been finance minister.

At one point he was the Finance Minister.

Back when he didnt have a bank account.

Idbatterim

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/mairia-cahill-want-to-see-what-sf-would-do-look-north-38895734.html

golfball37

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Syriza got elected during a tentative recovery, then managed to create a renewed crisis with their combative adolescent posturing toward the troika. Eventually they settled on a long series of compromises, U-turns, and retreats, during which Sinn Féin quietly disassociated themselves from their former radical left idols.

If Ireland had followed Sinn Féin's "burn the bondholders" advice during the financial crisis, we would be Greece today. Pearse Doherty, a college dropout, knows nothing about economics or finance. Forgive me for not wanting to see him elected as Minister for Finance.

Aren't we lucky Leo didn't follow through on his not another red cent promise so. Maybe all parties say populist things during election campaigns, probably the only thing I ever agreed on with Pat Rabbitte.

Granny15

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

That's about all he's good at. That he dropped out of two different civil engineering courses suggests that sums are not his forte, and now he wants to be Minister for Finance.

What has Paschal Donoghue ever done in economics?

joe40

road_high wrote: »

Shouting and roaring at people in and outside the Dail with cheap soundbites are what Shinners crave- Doherty delivers those in spades hence his popularity with them. I find him extemely agressive in his deameanour.
To the rest of us who use logic and crtical analysis it seems bizzare but this is essentially what SF is- a populist opposition with zero workable answers to problems- and their core supporters lap it up.

Arrogance like this, makes me want to vote Sinn Fein this time.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Granny15 wrote: »

What has Paschal Donoghue ever done in economics?

Donohoe has a first-class honours degree in Politics and Economics from TCD and is a former corporate executive with Proctor & Gamble.

Doherty doesn't have a degree in anything, and has no significant work experience outside politics.

Granny15

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Donohoe has a first-class honours degree in Politics and Economics from TCD and is a former corporate executive with Proctor & Gamble.

Doherty doesn't have a degree in anything, and has no significant work experience outside politics.

If you knew anytihng about Economics you would know it's invented jibberish.

If the notions of "demand" are based of a false fallacy of "consumer rationalism" then the whole subject matter falls down and you can't predict anything.

Economists get it wrong 100% of the time only someone with a bit of common sense and life experience could see the crash coming not academics who have their heads up their own ar5e.

What in Donoghues life experience says he is the man to know the feelings of the populus/market that means he can manage the economy better than Doherty. Nothing if anything Doherty is better connected to the populus.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Granny15 wrote: »

What in Donoghues life experience says he is the man to know the feelings of the populus/market that means he can manage the economy better than Doherty. Nothing if anything Doherty is better connected to the populus.

By that logic, we should pluck some random taxi driver off the street and appoint him Minister for Finance, on the basis that he's more connected to the people. What could possibly go wrong?

Phoebas

Granny15 wrote: »

What has Paschal Donoghue ever done in economics?

Granny15 wrote: »

If you knew anytihng about Economics you would know it's invented jibberish.

Why are you asking what Donoghue has done in economics if you think economics is 'jibberish'?

Granny15

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

By that logic, we should pluck some random taxi driver off the street and appoint him Minister for Finance, on the basis that he's more connected to the people. What could possibly go wrong?

So you;re saying economists dont base their forecasts on assumptions and they are right?

A taximan would have as good a chance of predictiing a crash as nobel prize winning economist. The subject matter is bullsh1t based on false assumptions.

ancapailldorcha

Granny15 wrote: »

So you;re saying economists dont base their forecasts on assumptions and they are right?

A taximan would have as good a chance of predictiing a crash as nobel prize winning economist. The subject matter is bullsh1t.

That's a bit much. I'd prefer a Dail more representative of the Irish people, for example a proportion of number of working class TD's without degrees that would be somewhat similar to the populace at large. This is where a lot of anti-elite sentiment comes from. People don't see people like them in power. It's worse in the UK with so many graduates from one school occupying so many seats.

I see the appeal of having highly qualified people in ministerial positions though. It does make a degree of sense so perhaps the answer is to separate the executive from the legislature as the Americans do.

road_high

joe40 wrote: »

Arrogance like this, makes me want to vote Sinn Fein this time.

Who cares, no one is actually stopping you are they? It's SF policy platform that I scrutinise and for anyone bothered to do the same you certainly won't "want to vote SF" - not if you're someone that works for a living and wants to progress in life. Cutting off your nose to spite your face at the ballot box.

Granny15

road_high wrote: »

Who cares, no one is actually stopping you are they? It's SF policy platform that I scrutinise and for anyone bothered to do the same you certainly won't "want to vote SF" - not if you're someone that works for a living and wants to progress in life. Cutting off your nose to spite your face at the ballot box.

Or if you post on internet forums during working hours and claim you "work" for a living. It's the self entitled who want to hold onto their money that say such things whilst the people out doing an honest days work are getting screwed by the well connected thugs who force their point across and ridicule the poor as "lazy" and "layabouts".

Perhaps the poor are not willing to cut someone elses throat to get ahead in the world as happens all the time in the private sector. And these people who have never lifted a little finger to do any manual labour claim they know about a real days work? They are so disconnected from reality its astonishing.

scrumqueen

road_high wrote: »

It's SF policy platform that I scrutinise and for anyone bothered to do the same you certainly won't "want to vote SF" - not if you're someone that works for a living and wants to progress in life. Cutting off your nose to spite your face at the ballot box.

And tell me, how's that working out so far for the FG voters? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

scrumqueen wrote: »

And tell me, how's that working out so far for the FG voters? :rolleyes:

not well, but if thats what FG are delivering, FF or SF? LOL! LOL!

efanton

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Sinn Féin allied itself closely with Syriza at the time, displaying the Greek flag at its public events, distributing pictures of Gerry Adams posing with Alexis Tsipras, inviting Syriza's finance minster to its Ard Fheis as a special guest, and sending its finance spokesman Pearse Doherty to Athens for the Greek bailout referendum.

Enamored by Syriza's confrontational adolescent stance toward the troika, Sinn Féin couldn't get enough of them. Even as Syriza drove Greece further into chaos, with its banks closed, capital controls imposed, nightly riots on the streets, and its economy collapsing, Sinn Féin continued cheering them on.

At very best, this showed an extraordinary lack of political judgement that should make any Irish person wary of voting for Sinn Féin.


Do you have photos of Viktor Orbán invited as a guest of honour to Fine Gael events? Examples of prominent Fine Gael party members flying to Hungary to cheer on his policies? Pictures of Fine Gaelers flying Hungarian flags in support?

Greece was facing the same problems as Ireland, severe and unnecessarily harsh austerity measures. Why wouldn't any party support another countries government in that situation?

Why did Professor Christian Kastrop, a former official in the German Finance ministry and former President of the Economic Policy Committee of the Council of European Finance and Economic Ministers say the the austerity measures in Ireland were unnecessarily harsh, and also harsh in the southern countries of Europe (Greece, Italy etc) although he could see it was right to hold them to certain fiscal discipline.

He also agreed that that Germany was very wrong it trying to force a single austerity solution on all countries. Different countries had different needs. Greece basically totally depend on it tourist industry, Ireland on it agricultural sector along with its foreign multinationals, Italy a mixture of agriculture and it car and aircraft manufacturing. All very different countries requiring different solutions but the German government were determined to have a single solution on all, which never was going to work.

http://dowlingfinancial.ie/news/new-arrears-measures-announced/



Paul Krugman won the Nobel memorial prize in economic sciences in 2008 and is a columnist for the New York Times, and a world respected economist.

He says

Since the global turn to austerity in 2010, every country that introduced significant austerity has seen its economy suffer, with the depth of the suffering closely related to the harshness of the austerity. In late 2012, the IMF’s chief economist, Olivier Blanchard, went so far as to issue what amounted to a mea culpa: although his organisation never bought into the notion that austerity would actually boost economic growth, the IMF now believes that it massively understated the damage that spending cuts inflict on a weak economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

Even the IMF in their reports have said that they were wrong insisting on harsh austerity policies, ESPECIALLY IN GREECE

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jun/05/imf-underestimated-damage-austerity-would-do-to-greece

Now if a German Ministry official and former President of the Economic Policy Committee of the Council of European Finance and Economic Ministers, a world respected economist, and the IMF all say that austerity in hindsight was wrong are we not to believe them, or should we believe your nonsense where you cant even post information or quotes to support your argument?

road_high

Granny15 wrote: »

Or if you post on internet forums during working hours and claim you "work" for a living. It's the self entitled who want to hold onto their money that say such things whilst the people out doing an honest days work are getting screwed by the well connected thugs who force their point across and ridicule the poor as "lazy" and "layabouts".

Perhaps the poor are not willing to cut someone elses throat to get ahead in the world as happens all the time in the private sector. And these people who have never lifted a little finger to do any manual labour claim they know about a real days work? They are so disconnected from reality its astonishing.

It's the 21st century and people work all kinds of hours and means- are you saying it should only be the unemployed and your blessed "layabouts" that are allowed comment during the 9-5 day?
I beleive if you work hard- then yes you should be allowed keep as much of it as reasonable and not give it to those not bothered to do the same- there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I'm proud I grew up with a strong work ethic and make no apologies to those that don't share one. Or the "self entitled" as you label them :rolleyes:

facehugger99

joe40 wrote: »

Arrogance like this, makes me want to vote Sinn Fein this time.

Yep, you should definitely cast your ballot on the basis of spiteing other people - that'll show them.

road_high

scrumqueen wrote: »

And tell me, how's that working out so far for the FG voters? :rolleyes:

Great thanks- significantly less people out of work with employment at an all time high. Salaries have also risen but thanks to the massive welfare and state spending demanded by the left taxes remain stubbornly high.
If you want to check out life under SF compare with Greece (their best pals Syriza in power) or even closer to home the yawning gap between North and South living standards.

road_high

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Doherty doesn't have a degree in anything, and has no significant work experience outside politics.

Oh yes, the esteemed "engineer". Or as it turned out the Technician (DIT Certificate) that dropped out of two Degrees to pursue an easier life flogging hot air.

Granny15

road_high wrote: »

It's the 21st century and people work all kinds of hours and means- are you saying it should only be the unemployed and your blessed "layabouts" that are allowed comment during the 9-5 day?
I beleive if you work hard- then yes you should be allowed keep as much of it as reasonable and not give it to those not bothered to do the same- there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I'm proud I grew up with a strong work ethic and make no apologies to those that don't share one. Or the "self entitled" as you label them :rolleyes:

That's exactly what I'm saying yet all the evidence points to right FG "hard working" people being 95% of the voices on this messageboard. Either they dont work and pretend they do or are managers who push all the work onto their lowly colleagues beneath them in the food chain. Either way it seems it is the right wingers on here do none of the work.

scrumqueen

road_high wrote: »

Great thanks- significantly less people out of work with employment at an all time high. Salaries have also risen but thanks to the massive welfare and state spending demanded by the left taxes remain stubbornly high.
If you want to check out life under SF compare with Greece (their best pals Syriza in power) or even closer to home the yawning gap between North and South living standards.

Employment at an all time high - all the better to fleece you with. Spiralling rent, crippling insurance premiums for those employed and now the SMEs.

WELFARE state is the cause of our massive taxes is it? How we treat the most vulnerable is a mark of our society. Without our welfare state we would have far higher criminal activity. Yeah lets not focus on the outrageous TD pensions we fund, how we award corrupt businessmen massive contracts and how we ignore every single tribunal recommendation ever.

And let us not even dream of looking at how taxpayer money is wasted to criminal levels in public sector in general or the black hole that is the HSE.

But sure, lets attack the most vulnerable in our society because it fits the FG rhetoric.

No I won't check out what's going on in Greece because I don't care, I don't live in Greece, I live in Ireland.

efanton

road_high wrote: »

Great thanks- significantly less people out of work with employment at an all time high. Salaries have also risen but thanks to the massive welfare and state spending demanded by the left taxes remain stubbornly high.
If you want to check out life under SF compare with Greece (their best pals Syriza in power) or even closer to home the yawning gap between North and South living standards.

you obviously didn't read my post above.
Maybe you should it would answer all your questions and lay waste to the false ideas implanted in your head.

Greece in in the state it is in not because of the Greek government but because the IMF and the troika feck'd up, and they have even openly admitted that.