Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

James Brown

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yep, you should definitely cast your ballot on the basis of spiteing other people - that'll show them.

It works out great for FG when FF mess up. In fact it's the only reason FG ever get in.

Ronan H

Jaysus I've just read this whole thread from start to finish. I wouldn't mind a medal to be honest, but I'll survive!

I came upon it when trying to find out what to do with my vote and I've found it fairly helpful. Quite an enjoyable thread, so thanks to everyone who went to the trouble of constructing detailed/informed replies etc. I've given a few Thanks and PMd a few people, so fair play folks.

R

PommieBast

For all their faults FF and FG have at least put out a proper manifestos and made them easy to find. Still digging for the SF and SD ones...

ELM327

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I’m going to vote for the Fine Gael candidates and then the Fianna Fáil ones in the order I fancy. Be a real bonus if that annoys the people who want the Shinners and the far left running the show.

Similarly, I will be voting FG as I have for the last few elections

ELM327

PommieBast wrote: »

For all their faults FF and FG have at least put out a proper manifestos and made them easy to find. Still digging for the SF and SD ones...

I can synopsise it for you
Take from anyone daring to earn their own way
give it to spongers
free houses for the lazy
punitive taxes on the evil landlords

Until someone can go in and fire people wholesale in the public sector who are not performing nothing will change.

It's as simple as that. Most of the parties are looking to throw good money after bad.

No government can fix these problems otherwise.

James Brown

PommieBast wrote: »

For all their faults FF and FG have at least put out a proper manifestos and made them easy to find. Still digging for the SF and SD ones...

TBF, FG/FF manifestos not worth the paper they're written on most likely.

Poor old aontu .... not at the races ....

Idbatterim

scrumqueen wrote: »

Employment at an all time high - all the better to fleece you with. Spiralling rent, crippling insurance premiums for those employed and now the SMEs.

WELFARE state is the cause of our massive taxes is it? How we treat the most vulnerable is a mark of our society. Without our welfare state we would have far higher criminal activity. Yeah lets not focus on the outrageous TD pensions we fund, how we award corrupt businessmen massive contracts and how we ignore every single tribunal recommendation ever.

And let us not even dream of looking at how taxpayer money is wasted to criminal levels in public sector in general or the black hole that is the HSE.

But sure, lets attack the most vulnerable in our society because it fits the FG rhetoric.

No I won't check out what's going on in Greece because I don't care, I don't live in Greece, I live in Ireland.

yes the welfare state is a massive issue. What is the cost of welfare and the costs of hotels, emergency accommodation? free gp visits, medical cards, free transport! the cost is obsene. then you have low and very low income people, qualifying for nothing themselves, it's a really screwed up and distorted system! Nobody gives a **** about a massive cohort of actual vulnerable it seems! How much is spent on social housing, while recouping virtually nothing from the massive investment in it? they wont tackle health, thats going to become an every growing black hole. Same with housing. Maybe the country needs another bust, to finally learn, that you cant have it both ways. Obscene spending a ridiculously narrow and immoral tax base...

Field east

pure.conya wrote: »

if all we're going to do is vote, then sit on our arse until we're allowed vote again next time i have news for you, that only enables corruption, voting changes nothing, its what we do between votes that really matters

Such as ?

Field east

Granny15 wrote: »

So you;re saying economists dont base their forecasts on assumptions and they are right?

A taximan would have as good a chance of predictiing a crash as nobel prize winning economist. The subject matter is bullsh1t based on false assumptions.

Applying that logic - so as we ,( binman, taximan , small farmer or whatever,) become aware of all the false assumptions made by economists, all we have to do to keep the economy going is to identify the opposite to all those false assumptions
Ps. I assume that you are saying that all the assumptions made by economists are false assumptions

Field east

Granny15 wrote: »

Or if you post on internet forums during working hours and claim you "work" for a living. It's the self entitled who want to hold onto their money that say such things whilst the people out doing an honest days work are getting screwed by the well connected thugs who force their point across and ridicule the poor as "lazy" and "layabouts".

Perhaps the poor are not willing to cut someone elses throat to get ahead in the world as happens all the time in the private sector. And these people who have never lifted a little finger to do any manual labour claim they know about a real days work? They are so disconnected from reality its astonishing.

So you are of the clear opinion that those that do not do any manual work do not do a real days work. - even though they are employed full time.
Well , going by your post, you know absolutely nothing about the world of work, manual or otherwise.

road_high

Field east wrote: »

So you are of the clear opinion that those that do not do any manual work do not do a real days work. - even though they are employed full time.
Well , going by your post, you know absolutely nothing about the world of work, manual or otherwise.

Sadly I sense this person has a clear chip on their shoulder about “dem fancy managers wit der Degrees”’. It’s innovating to eliminate manual labour and upskilling we need to be focusing more rather than attacking those fortunate enough to not be in that position. I grew up on a farm and w as very fortunate to get a 3rd level education so I’ve experienced and still experience both ends and respect all workers regardless of where they fit in

road_high

Granny15 wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying yet all the evidence points to right FG "hard working" people being 95% of the voices on this messageboard. Either they dont work and pretend they do or are managers who push all the work onto their lowly colleagues beneath them in the food chain. Either way it seems it is the right wingers on here do none of the work.

Where is your evidence for this 95% assertion? My sense is there a broad sweep of opinions here and not just one echo chamber of agreement. I don’t agree with many posters here and many many don’t agree with me but they are entitled to have their POV based on their life experiences and values.

Granny15

Field east wrote: »

Applying that logic - so as we ,( binman, taximan , small farmer or whatever,) become aware of all the false assumptions made by economists, all we have to do to keep the economy going is to identify the opposite to all those false assumptions
Ps. I assume that you are saying that all the assumptions made by economists are false assumptions

We don’t have to identify anything in economic terms but in human terms. Anyone can see a runaway train is going to derail put the breaks on.

The assumption of demand which penetrates to the very most basic concepts in economics is false. It is based on consumer rationalism but you can’t measure human behaviour in purely money terms. All sorts of other drivers come into decision making that determine demand.

Don’t do the opposite but have common sense and see when people are milking the system (private property development) and ask them to spread it around or there will be riots. The market (or human demand) becomes distorted by greed.

Granny15

Field east wrote: »

So you are of the clear opinion that those that do not do any manual work do not do a real days work. - even though they are employed full time.
Well , going by your post, you know absolutely nothing about the world of work, manual or otherwise.

I’m of the opinion that manual workers are the hardest working bunch of all. Raising your voice in an office to order someone do something for you, picking up the phone, or analysing accounts is not real work.

hmmm

Granny15 wrote: »

I’m of the opinion that manual workers are the hardest working bunch of all. Raising your voice in an office to order someone do something for you, picking up the phone, or analysing accounts is not real work.

My dad was a manual worker and he worked physically harder than I've ever done. However when he came home in the evening, his work was over. He spent a lot of the day waiting for instructions, before doing his piece of work.

Myself & my siblings work in offices and when we arrive home, our work doesn't finish. We can get phone calls at any time. We are stressed out worrying about work. We're checking emails at all hours. The pace of work is very fast.

Would I prefer to be a manual or an office worker? They both have their pluses and minuses.

Besides, most people I hear talking about manual workers have never done a days work in their life. In particular, my father would be delighted to know that his kids did not have to work in job wearing an overalls every day.

I Am The Law

hmmm wrote: »

My dad was a manual worker and he worked physically harder than I've ever done. However when he came home in the evening, his work was over. He spent a lot of the day waiting for instructions, before doing his piece of work.

Myself & my siblings work in offices and when we arrive home, our work doesn't finish. We can get phone calls at any time. We are stressed out worrying about work. We're checking emails at all hours. The pace of work is very fast.

Would I prefer to be a manual or an office worker? They both have their pluses and minuses.

Besides, most people I hear talking about manual workers have never done a days work in their life. In particular, my father would be delighted to know that his kids did not have to work in job wearing an overalls every day.

The snobbery and pretentiousness in this country never fails to show it's true face

Let's all answer emails in the evening and convince ourselves they're important!

It's no wonder we can't elect a decent government.

road_high

I Am The Law wrote: »

The snobbery and pretentiousness in this country never fails to show it's true face

Let's all answer emails in the evening and convince ourselves they're important!

It's no wonder we can't elect a decent government.

How is that snobbery? It’s the working reality of many people’s lives now. I’ve done it myself in previous roles- not to be important but to keep my bloody job and keep extremely demanding clients happy. As the next day you may not have a chance to as something else may be in the diary that day. As I say that’s reality.
Have you ever worked yourself and have had clients demanding updates and files etc?
Oh and please extol all as to who this decent amazing government would be that us working idiots are failing to see??

hmmm

I Am The Law wrote: »

The snobbery and pretentiousness in this country never fails to show it's true face

Let's all answer emails in the evening and convince ourselves they're important!

When you get a job you'll see that life is very different to how you think it should be.

smurgen

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

By that logic, we should pluck some random taxi driver off the street and appoint him Minister for Finance, on the basis that he's more connected to the people. What could possibly go wrong?

One second. What's Simon Harris' qualifications?

smurgen

Remember this.Ireland still has the 3rd largest debt per capita in the world. FF propped up by FG created this mess. While FG have been in power we have been in growth yet they have not reduced this debt. If there is another down turn this debt with ruin us.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-200bn-debt-burden-how-did-we-get-here-1.3943085

smurgen

How about leaving those involved in the banking inquiries off the hook and burying whistleblowers? All swept under the rug. And remember the senior counsel here Senan Allen was promoted as high court judge as a reward for leaving Bertie and co off lightly. Talk about kangaroo courts! https://www.thejournal.ie/banking-inquiry-investigation-2231271-Jul2015/

Speakerboxx

Not another one of these pointless threads. People will vote for who they want.

I Am The Law

hmmm wrote: »

When you get a job you'll see that life is very different to how you think it should be.

I give up.🙄

smurgen

I Am The Law wrote: »

I give up.🙄

Remember only dole scroungers vote for SF Even though they're polling at 19/20% while unemployment is near 4%! . # Finnerbot maths.

Idbatterim

smurgen wrote: »

Remember only dole scroungers vote for SF Even though they're polling at 19/20% while unemployment is near 4%! . # Finnerbot maths.

Goes to show how much they mask the unemployment figures !

PommieBast

ELM327 wrote: »

I can synopsise it for you
Take from anyone daring to earn their own way
give it to spongers
free houses for the lazy
punitive taxes on the evil landlords

I suspect that is still a few steps up from what WP/PBP want to do...

ELM327

Granny15 wrote: »

I’m of the opinion that manual workers are the hardest working bunch of all. Raising your voice in an office to order someone do something for you, picking up the phone, or analysing accounts is not real work.

If no one analysed accounts, there would be no manual work.
People don't just open up building sites for the lulz. Everything has to be costed, to ensure viability for the project


Generally the project would be financed. Therefore, in order for finance to be approved, someone else at the credit intermediary or lender will have to underwrite the loan (by analysing the accounts).


So... there's two simple account analyses that must be done before any "real" work gets done.

Granny15

ELM327 wrote: »

If no one analysed accounts, there would be no manual work.
People don't just open up building sites for the lulz. Everything has to be costed, to ensure viability for the project


Generally the project would be financed. Therefore, in order for finance to be approved, someone else at the credit intermediary or lender will have to underwrite the loan (by analysing the accounts).


So... there's two simple account analyses that must be done before any "real" work gets done.

And let me guess - the person analysing the accounts gets paid twice as much as the people doing the manual work? It's amazing how the nuts and bolts work of the econommy isnt compensated and people in "service" jobs gets all the money. Lawyers, bankers, accountants - all subsidiary jobs to what we need to live - food and shelter. Gerrup ourra that.