Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

Auguste Comte

Brynlee Rhythmic Sympathy wrote: »

Doherty doesn't have a degree in anything, and has no significant work experience outside politics.

A bit like Simon Harris, the lad with nothing other than an average leaving cert behind him yet Leo and FG appoint him as minister for health. The results speak for themselves, trolly crisis, worse than ever and getting worse, the same with waiting lists, overcrowding, staffing etc, etc, etc. Senior citizens having to leave the state to get cataract surgery ffs.

But yea, blame "the left", the shinners or anyone else apart from the people who are actually in power and are making the decisions.

ABFG.

ELM327

Granny15 wrote: »

And let me guess - the person analysing the accounts gets paid twice as much as the people doing the manual work? It's amazing how the nuts and bolts work of the econommy isnt compensated and people in "service" jobs gets all the money. Lawyers, bankers, accountants - all subsidiary jobs to what we need to live - food and shelter. Gerrup ourra that.

Well considering the risk of millions of euro is hanging on their analysis, yes.
It's much more mentally taxing to underwrite risk than it is to hammer a few blocks all day.

JMMCapital

SF will never be in power.. socialism doesn’t work!

ELM327

JMMCapital wrote: »

SF will never be in power.. socialism doesn’t work!

It does, like communism, it only works for those in power and their cronies. Not for the man on the street. Especially when the country is broke. Venezuela comes to mind!

Hoboo

JMMCapital wrote: »

SF will never be in power.. socialism doesn’t work!

Being in opposition is equally if not more important. People vote for who they want to win, they seldom vote for who they want to keep a hold of the reigns. And they should.

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/politics-and-your-pocket-how-have-the-last-nine-years-treated-you-1.4152881

If there was a silver bullet reason needed for voting for an alternative to the government, this article gives provides it, from the IT today.

To highlight, in particular;

Since 2011;

- Salary of €80k is 8% better off.

- Salary of €25k is 1.7% better off.

- Salary of €18k is 2.3% better off.

- 2x salaries of €25k as a family are 1.73% better off.

- Salary of €50k within a family with a carer's credit is 6% better off.

However, we know that rents have increased by at least 90% in the same time period.

Therefore, while the economy may have come out of recession on paper a few years ago, the recession has been ongoing for the past 9 years for renting workers. The policy of the government for more jobs is essentially a pyramid scheme, artificially propping up the GDP figure and these new jobs are coming from new people arriving to Ireland each day. However, for each year a person spent in Ireland the past 9 years, they have ended up with less cash then the previous year (even factoring in wage increases, due to the massive rental increases).

Multi-national activity being slowed is not something the government will try to encourage but it would be of great benefit to those already in Ireland. However, if there are renting workers, it would be madness to vote for the current government parties as you would be voting for less money in your pocket.

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/politics-and-your-pocket-how-have-the-last-nine-years-treated-you-1.4152881

If there was a silver bullet reason needed for voting for an alternative to the government, this article gives provides it, from the IT today.

To highlight, in particular;

Since 2011;

- Salary of €80k is 8% better off.

- Salary of €25k is 1.7% better off.

- Salary of €18k is 2.3% better off.

- 2x salaries of €25k as a family are 1.73% better off.

- Salary of €50k within a family with a carer's credit is 6% better off.

However, we know that rents have increased by at least 90% in the same time period.

Therefore, while the economy may have come out of recession on paper a few years ago, the recession has been ongoing for the past 9 years for renting workers. The policy of the government for more jobs is essentially a pyramid scheme, artificially propping up the GDP figure and these new jobs are coming from new people arriving to Ireland each day. However, for each year a person spent in Ireland the past 9 years, they have ended up with less cash then the previous year (even factoring in wage increases, due to the massive rental increases).

Multi-national activity being slowed is not something the government will try to encourage but it would be of great benefit to those already in Ireland. However, if there are renting workers, it would be madness to vote for the current government parties as you would be voting for less money in your pocket.

I rented from 2006 to 2018, the recession ended in 2010-11.

Idbatterim

That post above is the dilemma and not true. I thought about not voting fg , as **** as they are. But ff and sf think you’re the wolf of Wall Street on fifty k FFS!

Voting for current options madness. What ? Fg plan on giving the biggest tax decreases as minor as they are. The other parties have said that gage no interest in them. They want more tax , from those that won’t avail or qualify for these “ better “ services. Only in this banana republic !

Edgware

JMMCapital wrote: »

SF will never be in power.. socialism doesn’t work!

What has Sociaism got to do with Sinn Fein?
Popular catch all for McDonald but Slab and his cronies on the Ard Chomhairle are only interested in a one way distrbution of wealth.

ELM327

Edgware wrote: »

What has Sociaism got to do with Sinn Fein?
Popular catch all for McDonald but Slab and his cronies on the Ard Chomhairle are only interested in a one way distrbution of wealth.

They are socialist!


https://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for

Sinn Féin is a 32-County party striving for an end to partition on the island of Ireland and the establishment of a democratic socialist republic.

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

I rented from 2006 to 2018, the recession ended in 2010-11.

The economic recession ended in 2010-11. However, cash in the bank for the renting workers, as set out above, is receding each year since 2011.

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

The economic recession ended in 2010-11. However, cash in the bank for the renting workers, as set out above, is receding each year since 2011.

I'm a renting worker for 6 years of that time and it was not true for me!
Lies and damn statistics!

rgace

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/politics-and-your-pocket-how-have-the-last-nine-years-treated-you-1.4152881

If there was a silver bullet reason needed for voting for an alternative to the government, this article gives provides it, from the IT today.

To highlight, in particular;

Since 2011;

- Salary of €80k is 8% better off.

- Salary of €25k is 1.7% better off.

- Salary of €18k is 2.3% better off.

- 2x salaries of €25k as a family are 1.73% better off.

- Salary of €50k within a family with a carer's credit is 6% better off.

However, we know that rents have increased by at least 90% in the same time period.

Therefore, while the economy may have come out of recession on paper a few years ago, the recession has been ongoing for the past 9 years for renting workers. The policy of the government for more jobs is essentially a pyramid scheme, artificially propping up the GDP figure and these new jobs are coming from new people arriving to Ireland each day. However, for each year a person spent in Ireland the past 9 years, they have ended up with less cash then the previous year (even factoring in wage increases, due to the massive rental increases).

Multi-national activity being slowed is not something the government will try to encourage but it would be of great benefit to those already in Ireland. However, if there are renting workers, it would be madness to vote for the current government parties as you would be voting for less money in your pocket.

Is any party interested in trying to make rents more affordable for working renters?

ELM327

rgace wrote: »

Is any party interested in trying to make rents more affordable for working renters?

Considering the negative impacts the existing market controls that were implemented are having, I doubt anyone wants to touch that!


RPZ are pushing private landlords out of the market, so supply is going down, not up

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm a renting worker for 6 years of that time and it was not true for me!
Lies and damn statistics!

I can only assume you changed jobs or had a salary increase within your role to offset the massive increase in rent during that time period.

However, as a home owner, you are now best placed to vote for FG.

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

Considering the negative impacts the existing market controls that were implemented are having, I doubt anyone wants to touch that!


RPZ are pushing private landlords out of the market, so supply is going down, not up

RPZ are ensuring the institutional investors can secure 4% rental increases each year who are the ones bringing new builds on the market. However, as with all of FG's interference in the rental market, this has just stymied supply by spooking individual landlords.

Assetbacked

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/politics-and-your-pocket-how-have-the-last-nine-years-treated-you-1.4152881

If there was a silver bullet reason needed for voting for an alternative to the government, this article gives provides it, from the IT today.

To highlight, in particular;

Since 2011;

- Salary of €80k is 8% better off.

- Salary of €25k is 1.7% better off.

- Salary of €18k is 2.3% better off.

- 2x salaries of €25k as a family are 1.73% better off.

- Salary of €50k within a family with a carer's credit is 6% better off.

However, we know that rents have increased by at least 90% in the same time period.

Therefore, while the economy may have come out of recession on paper a few years ago, the recession has been ongoing for the past 9 years for renting workers. The policy of the government for more jobs is essentially a pyramid scheme, artificially propping up the GDP figure and these new jobs are coming from new people arriving to Ireland each day. However, for each year a person spent in Ireland the past 9 years, they have ended up with less cash then the previous year (even factoring in wage increases, due to the massive rental increases).

Multi-national activity being slowed is not something the government will try to encourage but it would be of great benefit to those already in Ireland. However, if there are renting workers, it would be madness to vote for the current government parties as you would be voting for less money in your pocket.

interesting work, ty

the economy has recovered on the books, which basically means that the bad investments made in property were kept uncrystallized as far as possible.

property prices had to be let recover, and an unspoken priority has been that current housing stock value could not be affected by any govt moves. plenty of homeowners have done very well on paper, the same way that they did very badly on paper from 2007-2013

its been a homeowner's recovery, and rather than learn anything- nor, indeed, ensure that the consequences of bad investments were visited on to the banks or the borrowers, its been a continuation of FF policy of "we all partied".

Everyone in the country paying their own rent has been working for the above property owning class since the crash. and clearly no party fears the renter vote, because no party has even hinted at policies that would buy that vote

the parties that rail at landlords and want free houses for all dont do anything for me as a working renter who pays his own rent. theyre -imo- a "cant someone else pay?" grouping and, to them, im lumped in with the "someone else"

the parties that are keeping the price of housing high in order to ensure the magical "underlying fundamentals" recover dont consider me one of them, because i never threw my €300k into the pyramid.

Im probably down in the minds of most boardsies that note such things as a FG head, but its not the case. theyre looking after the propertied class and little else and have been a great disappointment given the opportunity they had to change how we behaved about property.

But i know id never vote FF after the crash, and I know that id be worse off in many new and interesting ways were SF ever anywhere near financial power.

a renters/non homeowners analysis of policies that didnt just treat us as pay pigs, or desperate to get on the ladder, or etc etc would be a very welcome one- be interesting to see whether its a vote that could sway things

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

I can only assume you changed jobs or had a salary increase within your role to offset the massive increase in rent during that time period.

However, as a home owner, you are now best placed to vote for FG.

I worked on my career and climbed the ladder.
No reason anyone else cant do the same.

smurgen

Edgware wrote: »

What has Sociaism got to do with Sinn Fein?
Popular catch all for McDonald but Slab and his cronies on the Ard Chomhairle are only interested in a one way distrbution of wealth.

Like FG and Dinny? Or FG and BAM?the photo ops of the non existent event centre in cork that bam organised with FG really helped the last election. Pity there hasn't been any progress since.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I worked on my career and climbed the ladder.
No reason anyone else cant do the same.

im fine with this as an income improvement argument, but as someone who had to move to dublin to improve my career prospects im not much better off despite more than doubling my salary since 2012

until a govt breaks the pyramid scheme, rent is just another tax for us to continue to informally bail out banks, investors and homeowners.

Assetbacked

Deleted User wrote: »

im fine with this as an income improvement argument, but as someone who had to move to dublin to improve my career prospects im not much better off despite more than doubling my salary since 2012

until a govt breaks the pyramid scheme, rent is just another tax for us to continue to informally bail out banks, investors and homeowners.

Rental increases are punishing those who better themselves in their careers. My rent has doubled in the last five years and my salary, after tax, has not doubled. However, the standard of rentals is of the same poor quality it was five years ago. If I wanted to pay 40%+ of my after tax salary on rent then that is the only way I could get a nice place to rent. This anecdotal experience is more common from people that I speak to than whatever statistics and headlines are churned out by the government, the IT article linked above is one of the first articles I have seen which actually shows that things are actually pretty dire out there for a large number of people and I have only discussed rent - I honestly don't know how people pay rent and childcare costs whilst working for their money and not earning six figures.

Assetbacked

Assetbacked wrote: »

I honestly don't know how people pay rent and childcare costs whilst working for their money and not earning six figures.

same!

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

im fine with this as an income improvement argument, but as someone who had to move to dublin to improve my career prospects im not much better off despite more than doubling my salary since 2012

until a govt breaks the pyramid scheme, rent is just another tax for us to continue to informally bail out banks, investors and homeowners.

I moved out of Dublin in 2013 as we couldnt afford rising rents.
We now live quite happily in meath. I pay less mortgage here on a 3 bed than I did for a 1 bed rent in Dublin.


My salary has more than doubled in the interim, thanks to upskilling, qualifications added etc.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

same!

It's actually a lot cheaper in some cases (especially when one earner earns a lot more than the other) to have a single earner family with stay at home parent.


This is what we intend to do if we have a child. (have 2 currently but as they are step kids they only spend part the week with us, not much cost for childcare on weekends thankfully!)
Tax credits and bands work it that way.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I moved out of Dublin in 2013 as we couldnt afford rising rents.
We now live quite happily in meath. I pay less mortgage here on a 3 bed than I did for a 1 bed rent in Dublin.


My salary has more than doubled in the interim, thanks to upskilling, qualifications added etc.

look i hear ya- i did all the same. went back to college, upskilled, moved jobs, worked the tough gigs to get ahead.

fair play to ya!

rent increases taking all of it isnt defensible, regardless of whether you yourself decided to get in the ladder or otherwise.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

look i hear ya- i did all the same. went back to college, upskilled, moved jobs, worked the tough gigs to get ahead.

fair play to ya!

rent increases taking all of it isnt defensible, regardless of whether you yourself decided to get in the ladder or otherwise.

It's market rates though
If two people want an apartment in Dublin, and both can pay 2k but one can pay 2050 and the other cant, then the market rate is 2050.


The solution is earn more or cut back or move

well

its a market until investors and homeowners lose money then its "pay if ye like lads" and bailouts

the other end of the market is people living in houses with market rates up in the low thousands per month and contributing in the low hundreds

so im not saying youre wrong. im saying its not really a proper market though, is it?

and its housing, so for the record it shouldnt be anyway. no more than health, education, childcare, etc

hence the govt being held to account for the areas not being well served, which im pointing out from my POV

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

well

its a market until investors and homeowners lose money then its "pay if ye like lads" and bailouts

the other end of the market is people living in houses with market rates up in the low thousands per month and contributing in the low hundreds

so im not saying youre wrong. im saying its not really a proper market though, is it?

and its housing, so for the record it shouldnt be anyway. no more than health, education, childcare, etc

hence the govt being held to account for the areas not being well served, which im pointing out from my POV

Yes, this is the issue, government interference should not have been allowed.

Auguste Comte

ELM327 wrote: »

The solution is earn more or cut back or move

No, the solution is affordable public housing available to whoever needs it, but no profit in that for the friends of Fine Gael.

For affordable housing vote ABFG.

Assetbacked

Auguste Comte wrote: »

No, the solution is affordable public housing available to whoever needs it, but no profit in that for the friends of Fine Gael.

For affordable housing vote ABFG.

+1

State-sponsored social housing is absolutely essential. However, FG will not do this, preferring to leave it to the market. This is catastrophic as the rental assistance given out by the government is intended to assist with tenants meeting the "market" rent which means that the government are throwing millions into the pockets of foreign investors when they could just borrow on the international markets at no cost and build the housing themselves.

FF are committed to building social housing and FG are not. Given our votes only have an impact for the next 4 years, short-term thinking is promoted among the electorate. As such, this policy of FF would tip the balance of the economic recovery from the wealthy (i.e. the institutional investors and those who own their own house) back to the renting workers, without destroying the economy, and will receive my vote consequently.