Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

ELM327

Auguste Comte wrote: »

No, the solution is affordable public housing available to whoever needs it, but no profit in that for the friends of Fine Gael.

For affordable housing vote ABFG.

The solution is not social housing.
Then the few pay for the many.


If "ABFG" are for social affordable housing then I'm glad I'm a FG voter,

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

The solution is not social housing.
Then the few pay for the many.

The few already pay for the many. You have two choices;

A. Rental assistance fron the State to pay private landlords.

B. Social housing provided by the State.

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

The few already pay for the many. You have two choices;

A. Rental assistance fron the State to pay private landlords.

B. Social housing provided by the State.

C: Buy your own house. Pay your own way. Simples.




A lot of lefty voters seem to forget that option.
Nothing is "free" , it's all funded off the back of the work of honest taxpayers like myself.

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

The solution is not social housing.
Then the few pay for the many.


If "ABFG" are for social affordable housing then I'm glad I'm a FG voter,

ELM327 wrote: »

C: Buy your own house. Pay your own way. Simples.


A lot of lefty voters seem to forget that option.
Nothing is "free" , it's all funded off the back of the work of honest taxpayers like myself.

We are taking out 25 year leases and renting, hotels for social housing. Right now. All funded by tax payers like yourself.
As a tax payer I'd rather we weren't.
Building, only way to go.
True, nothing is free.

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

C: Buy your own house. Pay your own way. Simples.




A lot of lefty voters seem to forget that option.
Nothing is "free" , it's all funded off the back of the work of honest taxpayers like myself.

There are people who can't afford rent, let alone afford to buy. Are you saying that all State assistance should be scrapped and let them fend for themselves? What is your solution for people who need State assistance?

My view is that they should be given help but it should be done in the most cost efficient manner. Rental assistance is 100% the wrong solution but FG are pursuing this option as they refuse to build social housing. For example, Dún Laoire Council have apparently agreed to a 30 year lease with an investment fund to pay €3k per month rent to them per dwelling which will be used to house social tenants. That is shocking.

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

There are people who can't afford rent, let alone afford to buy. Are you saying that all State assistance should be scrapped and let them fend for themselves? What is your solution for people who need State assistance?

My view is that they should be given help but it should be done in the most cost efficient manner. Rental assistance is 100% the wrong solution but FG are pursuing this option as they refuse to build social housing. For example, Dún Laoire Council have apparently agreed to a 30 year lease with an investment fund to pay €3k per month rent to them per dwelling which will be used to house social tenants. That is shocking.

My solution is to build social housing outside of dublin city, which is temporary and reviewed every 6 months minimum. To keep the house you must be actively applying for jobs, you cannot refuse a house or you are blacklisted for a year. If you get a job you have one year to move out.
If you die the house goes back to central stock
No option to buy or inherit.


Rent assistance, HAP, etc are ridiculous

Dravokivich

ELM327 wrote: »

My solution is to build social housing outside of dublin city, which is temporary and reviewed every 6 months minimum. To keep the house you must be actively applying for jobs, you cannot refuse a house or you are blacklisted for a year. If you get a job you have one year to move out.
If you die the house goes back to central stock
No option to buy or inherit.


Rent assistance, HAP, etc are ridiculous

What would be the point in that criteria. I have a job but can't afford anywhere to live. This wouldn't win my vote.

scrumqueen

ELM327 wrote: »

My solution is to build social housing outside of dublin city, which is temporary and reviewed every 6 months minimum. To keep the house you must be actively applying for jobs, you cannot refuse a house or you are blacklisted for a year. If you get a job you have one year to move out.
If you die the house goes back to central stock
No option to buy or inherit.


Rent assistance, HAP, etc are ridiculous

AKA a Ghetto.

Topgear on Dave

scrumqueen wrote: »

AKA a Ghetto.

Nonsense. Does social housing have to be right in the city centre?

Cant they commute in from Ashbourne, Mullingar, Kinnegad, Naas and Gorey like the rest of us? :pac:

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

My solution is to build social housing outside of dublin city, which is temporary and reviewed every 6 months minimum. To keep the house you must be actively applying for jobs, you cannot refuse a house or you are blacklisted for a year. If you get a job you have one year to move out.
If you die the house goes back to central stock
No option to buy or inherit.


Rent assistance, HAP, etc are ridiculous

Working tax payers would be the vast majority in need of such housing. We need move away from the idea it's all chancers on the dole for life, it's simply not.

ELM327

Dravokivich wrote: »

What would be the point in that criteria. I have a job but can't afford anywhere to live. This wouldn't win my vote.

Then you need a better job as your current isnt sustainable.

scrumqueen wrote: »

AKA a Ghetto.

better than giving for free what others ahve to pay for

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Nonsense. Does social housing have to be right in the city centre?

Cant they commute in from Ashbourne, Mullingar, Kinnegad, Naas and Gorey like the rest of us? :pac:

Well it's a free or heavily subsidised house so I'd say yes.

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's fine but working tax payers would be the vast majority in need of such housing. We need move away from the idea it's all chancers on the dole for life, it's simply not.

Same rules there too, temporary house reviewed regularly until you have enough means to fund yourself

ELM327

Where's my free house?

Assetbacked

ELM327 wrote: »

Where's my free house?

Give up your job and live off the dole so you can be put on a list, wait years and then end up in some basic house in an average or below average socio-economic area. Would it be worth it (noting that any effort to try to get a job that pays okay would result in you losing your free house)? It is a subsistence which keeps a roof over your head, but for the vast majority of people, the fact it is free is not enough of a reason to want to do it out of choice.

Edgware

ELM327 wrote: »

They are socialist!


https://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for

The useful idiots might like to believe that

ELM327

Assetbacked wrote: »

Give up your job and live off the dole so you can be put on a list, wait years and then end up in some basic house in an average or below average socio-economic area. Would it be worth it (noting that any effort to try to get a job that pays okay would result in you losing your free house)? It is a subsistence which keeps a roof over your head, but for the vast majority of people, the fact it is free is not enough of a reason to want to do it out of choice.

Once you're on the rat race you can't leave
The key is to never buy a house and never work so you can suckle at the proverbial teat of the taxpayer for life

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Once you're on the rat race you can't leave
The key is to never buy a house and never work so you can suckle at the proverbial teat of the taxpayer for life

That's fraud. Someone in government should look into that.....

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's fraud. Someone in government should look into that.....

Fraud, or lefty supported champagne socialism?

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Fraud, or lefty supported champagne socialism?

You think FG are lefty champagne socialists? I disagree.

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You think FG are lefty champagne socialists? I disagree.

FG? No, they are the only party of reason.


Anyone who increases the SW payments without a tax cut is subsidising the lazy.

smurgen

ELM327 wrote: »

Once you're on the rat race you can't leave
The key is to never buy a house and never work so you can suckle at the proverbial teat of the taxpayer for life

Here Fine Gael have tax fraud and multi pension ministers in their party.maybe the people are following their example and taking what they can get?

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

FG? No, they are the only party of reason.


Anyone who increases the SW payments without a tax cut is subsidising the lazy.

Oh, they have their reasons.

We should have nobody on welfare because they are lazy. I don't know any party that supports such a thing.
The only people deciding not to work and getting welfare are liars and cheats. And I'd wager there aren't many.
The bill is big because more tax payers need state aid to function.
Being annoyed with the way things are under FF/FG is a great reason to knock SF/SD/PBP etc....

Auguste Comte

smurgen wrote: »

Here Fine Gael have tax fraud and multi pension ministers in their party.maybe the people are following their example and taking what they can get?

I wonder what percentage of Fine Gael TD's are landlords and are profiting handsomely from the system as it stands?

pjohnson

Are you a landlord ELM?

I Am The Law

In keeping with OPs question, SF manifesto (put it to the testo) ðŸ˜

https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/SF_GE2020_Manifesto.pdf

efanton

Assetbacked wrote: »

+1

State-sponsored social housing is absolutely essential. However, FG will not do this, preferring to leave it to the market. This is catastrophic as the rental assistance given out by the government is intended to assist with tenants meeting the "market" rent which means that the government are throwing millions into the pockets of foreign investors when they could just borrow on the international markets at no cost and build the housing themselves.

FF are committed to building social housing and FG are not. Given our votes only have an impact for the next 4 years, short-term thinking is promoted among the electorate. As such, this policy of FF would tip the balance of the economic recovery from the wealthy (i.e. the institutional investors and those who own their own house) back to the renting workers, without destroying the economy, and will receive my vote consequently.

I really cannot understand FG policy on housing at all. It makes no common sense and worse it makes no economic sense whatsoever.

At the moment we have families using the HAP scheme where in most parts of the country a house could cost up to €1200 a month and in Dublin €1600 a month.

When governments build housing they dont pay cash.No government does in any country, its amortised over a period of 20 to 25 years.

the average price paid for a social housing unit was €158,200 nationally, while this rises to €223,951 in Dublin
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-38125430.html

so lets just call it 200k to make things relatively simple.

200k over 20 years is only 10k a year, yet FG seem happier to pay around €14.4k a year for HAP scheme housing outside of Dublin and 19.2k in Dublin.

replacing these with government built social homes would result in savings of about 4.4k per household outside of Dublin and a whopping 9.4k per household in Dublin

Multiply that by the numbers already on the HAP scheme (50,000) and the total sum is astounding.

There is no breakdown that I could find to say how many households in Dublin are on HAP.
Even if we assumed that every household on HAP was outside Dublin the saving would be €220 Million a year.
If we assumed that every household on HAP was in Dublin the saving would be €470 million a year.
Obviously the true saving would be somewhere in between

Seriously, are FG so crazy that they would let their political ideology allow them to squander what is likely to be in excess of €300 million a year.

I wonder what the FG supporters here feel about that?
Can wasting €300 million a year even be justified?

Dravokivich

ELM327 wrote: »

Then you need a better job as your current isnt sustainable.

That's way too easy an answer to address the issue.

James Brown

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I wonder what percentage of Fine Gael TD's are landlords and are profiting handsomely from the system as it stands?

One in five TD's are landlords based on last count.

Conflict of interest’ as one in five TDs are landlords
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/conflict-of-interest-as-one-in-five-tds-are-landlords-467178.html

One in Four for FG, last I heard on FG specifically...

Fine Gael heads the landlord list as TDs cash in with property
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fine-gael-heads-the-landlord-list-as-tds-cash-in-with-property-cwn5j9sv3

James Brown

efanton wrote: »

I really cannot understand FG policy on housing at all. It makes no common sense and worse it makes no economic sense whatsoever.

At the moment we have families using the HAP scheme where in most parts of the country a house could cost up to €1200 a month and in Dublin €1600 a month.

When governments build housing they dont pay cash.No government does in any country, its amortised over a period of 20 to 25 years.

the average price paid for a social housing unit was €158,200 nationally, while this rises to €223,951 in Dublin
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-38125430.html

so lets just call it 200k to make things relatively simple.

200k over 20 years is only 10k a year, yet FG seem happier to pay around €14.4k a year for HAP scheme housing outside of Dublin and 19.2k in Dublin.

replacing these with government built social homes would result in savings of about 4.4k per household outside of Dublin and a whopping 9.4k per household in Dublin

Multiply that by the numbers already on the HAP scheme (50,000) and the total sum is astounding.

There is no breakdown that I could find to say how many households in Dublin are on HAP.
Even if we assumed that every household on HAP was outside Dublin the saving would be €220 Million a year.
If we assumed that every household on HAP was in Dublin the saving would be €470 million a year.
Obviously the true saving would be somewhere in between

Seriously, are FG so crazy that they would let their political ideology allow them to squander what is likely to be in excess of €300 million a year.

I wonder what the FG supporters here feel about that?
Can wasting €300 million a year even be justified?

The go to is too many lazy people so they don't deserve a house. Then you point out they are getting houses anyway, just in the form of hotels and leased property. Then it's we've no money to build, then you point out we've money for leasing and hotels. Then the say we've nobody to build them, then you point out somebody is building the apartments and houses we are leasing and buying. Then they say there's no land, and you say where are they building all these apartments often on public land? Then they disappear...then a few days later it all starts again with a post about some single mother or such.
Why? See above.

smurgen

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I wonder what percentage of Fine Gael TD's are landlords and are profiting handsomely from the system as it stands?

I would say at least 50%