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Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election
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Your not listening, if we use your example we the squeezed middle are paying for this insurance. You could say we have fully comprehension with all the bells and whistles but when it comes to getting support when needed its not there.
If we are to have a social insurance based model like your saying shouldn't everyone pay and should we not expand it out to all? The one good thing about the USC was it was fair and those who would be benefiting most had to pay something.
In my families case, i have a young daughter who is in need of that social insurance your calling out. Guess what i have to deal with? a system that is down right hostile and combative so don't tell me that those of us who are paying into it will benefit from it when we need it.
Of course not , the system here massively disproportionately benefits the wasters. As they cut off your entitlements to anything, from a low income. I’m up for usc abolition and you want to hear how’s it’s funded ? Council tax like uk partially! Get rid of lpt. That can pay at least half it! New motor tax rates for all cars , including electric. Way higher than the current rates in percentage terms. I realise why usc is such a good tax. I’m talking about if I were to hypothetically form a new party, you need to be somewhat populist. I’d arrange a wealth transfer back from the wasters to workers. Get rid of the Xmas welfare bonus for Long term unemployed , ideally I’d scrap it entirely. I’m trying to strike balance between what you’d do as dictator and what would actually be feasible here. A reasonable Site value tax , stop land hoarding. Reduce the higher vat rate , it’s ridiculous. E20 for go visits if you have medical card. End free travel. Free tv license. Actually one of the key points of my manifesto , license fee abolition!
You know what I’d love ? If th **** hits the fan again here , let the imf make the decisions. BElive me , the outcome won’t be borrowing twenty something billion a year , like during the recession years , to keep all the gravy trains going0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »I probably wouldn’t drive uninsured , assuming if I had accident , I could be forced to sell assets etc. we go round in circles here , you all believe in the system here. I don’t , I believe in systems more sling Germany’s line. You get paid out basecon what you paid in. We have a flat rate that doesn’t discriminate, doesn’t discriminate against those scratching their ass their whole lives and those who have contributed a lot and this has done nothing but tile them out of medical cards etc. the system here is a farce. No other country operates anything like ours
So I should no pay tax, because I have no children, am not married, do not own a house, yet I subsidise your income through married tax allowance, your children through child benefit and education, pay towards your tax relief on mortgage and deposits, and that list could go on considerably.
The state is not a banking system, you dont put in a deposit and expect it to return a profit.
The problem is, but you know this yourself but will not admit it, that FG and FF have repeatedly failed in government. It doesn't matter what their program for government is, how well it is balanced, if they either do not deliver that program for government or the squander tax revenue needlessly then yes you me and everyone else paying taxes will be paying far more than we should.
That is precisely what FF and FG have been doing for 20 years or more. Yet you want to blame this failure on a party that has never been in government. Do you realise how pathetic that sounds.0 -
What if you are a worker who pays a lot of tax?Unless you are one of the dozen or so big Multinationals then I very much doubt you pay for everything and you certainly don't get "nada".
This attitude does bemuse me.
Go for a walk in one of the national parks and pretend your taxes paid for it, then cheer the fúck up.0 -
I kind of hope Sinn Fein gets their turn in government just so we can see the absolute sh!t show they make of things and we'll never have to hear this again.The problem is, but you know this yourself but will not admit it, that FG and FF have repeatedly failed in government. It doesn't matter what their program for government is, how well it is balanced, if they either do not deliver that program for government or the squander tax revenue needlessly then yes you me and everyone else paying taxes will be paying far more than we should.
That is precisely what FF and FG have been doing for 20 years or more. Yet you want to blame this failure on a party that has never been in government. Do you realise how pathetic that sounds.0 -
I kind of hope Sinn Fein gets their turn in government just so we can see the absolute sh!t show they make of things and we'll never have to hear this again.
I hope so too,
If they make a complete balls of it, fair enough, we can go back to the merry-go-round this country has been in for decades. If think SF recognise they will only get one shot, and because of that will endeavour and try harder to actually deliver on their promises.
But what if they succeed?
It will certainly drive the other parties to raise their standards, stop the constant waste of tax payers money that we have seen in every government for the last few decades, and actually force parties to keep their promises if they ever want to be elected again for government. Whether subsequent governments would be SF, FF or FG you could only view that as a good thing for the country.
The problem as I see it is not that FG or FF have not had good policies, its that they have abysmally failed at delivering those polices. I think that is also being recognised by a larger and larger proportion of the electorate at each election. If they cant deliver, give someone else the chance.
SF in government would be an experiment, there is no doubt of that, but on balance I could see it as being a positive thing rather than negative. At least it will stop FF or FG automatically assuming that they will be in government or the subsequent government at every election.0 -
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I hope so too,
If they make a complete balls of it, fair enough, we can go back to the merry-go-round this country has been in for decades. If think SF recognise they will only get one shot, and because of that will endeavour and try harder to actually deliver on their promises.
But what if they succeed?
It will certainly drive the other parties to raise their standards, stop the constant waste of tax payers money that we have seen in every government for the last few decades, and actually force parties to keep their promises if they ever want to be elected again for government. Whether subsequent governments would be SF, FF or FG you could only view that as a good thing for the country.
The problem as I see it is not that FG or FF have not had good policies, its that they have abysmally failed at delivering those polices. I think that is also being recognised by a larger and larger proportion of the electorate at each election. If they cant deliver, give someone else the chance.
SF in government would be an experiment, there is no doubt of that, but on balance I could see it as being a positive thing rather than negative. At least it will stop FF or FG automatically assuming that they will be in government or the subsequent government at every election.
You obviously think that SF have a better handle of our public servants than the current government who would be more right leaning than SF.
They have also been getting kind of a demo run of it up the North and they haven't formed a government up until recently for over two years but yeah given the reigns down here they will just turn it all around. :pac::pac::pac::pac:0 -
Good post above , I see a lot of merit in it. I really don’t know what to think anymore , so much going on. I absolutely do not agree with housing as a most basic human need , to be used as an asset for some , to drain people financially dry. That is an absolute piss take. Go off and invest in something else. I’ve no problems with reasonable return 3-4 % , but not this frenzy0
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People posting on here about giving SF a chance and sure if it doesn’t work out well no worries ... eh no your obviously too young to remember the last crash or it didn’t affect you.
It’s not just an experiment .. the last downturn affected peoples lives for a decade or more , people had to put life decisions on hold (children,jobs,housing) , had to emigrate , people committed suicide due to the downturn and many other side effects.
A stable economy is taken for granted by those who don't seem to understand the consequences of a downturn. We can’t let what happened before happen again.
I’m not sure I trust any of the parties to have learnt the lessons of the past But I have a real concern that SF would crash the economy if elected.0 -
Good post. I see very valid points though from the other “ give them a chance “ side too. If you aren’t effected by the housing crisis , on selfish grounds I could see why you might stick with fg. But a lot of hard working people are in really **** positions because if it. Over the last few budgets as a wither , they gave a pittance back , less than a euro a week on 30k I think. But you get annihilated on increasing rents and mortgages. It is an inconceivable cluster ****. The party which claim to charge you the least tax , adopt a , we will rob you blind on housing attitude. This same government are giving as good as free luxury apartments away in Dundrum. It’s from another planetPeople posting on here about giving SF a chance and sure if it doesn’t work out well no worries ... eh no your obviously too young to remember the last crash or it didn’t affect you.
It’s not just an experiment .. the last downturn affected peoples lives for a decade or more , people had to put life decisions on hold (children,jobs,housing) , had to emigrate , people committed suicide due to the downturn and many other side effects.
A stable economy is taken for granted by those who don't seem to understand the consequences of a downturn. We can’t let what happened before happen again.
I’m not sure I trust any of the parties to have learnt the lessons of the past But I have a real concern that SF would crash the economy if elected.0 -
There are a few more checks in place than last time. Don’t europe have to approve our budget now ( thank god ) becAuse we are incapable of running this countries finances prudentlyPeople posting on here about giving SF a chance and sure if it doesn’t work out well no worries ... eh no your obviously too young to remember the last crash or it didn’t affect you.
It’s not just an experiment .. the last downturn affected peoples lives for a decade or more , people had to put life decisions on hold (children,jobs,housing) , had to emigrate , people committed suicide due to the downturn and many other side effects.
A stable economy is taken for granted by those who don't seem to understand the consequences of a downturn. We can’t let what happened before happen again.
I’m not sure I trust any of the parties to have learnt the lessons of the past But I have a real concern that SF would crash the economy if elected.0 -
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I kind of hope Sinn Fein gets their turn in government just so we can see the absolute sh!t show they make of things and we'll never have to hear this again.
Yes but then you and me and our kids are left to deal with the Consequences of that....
It's always easy to be the opposition, but sinn fein say very little to inspire me they are any better than status quo and I am desperate for change. Sadly there is zero viable alternatives0 -
We might find out the answer to this shortly. Ffg have been appalling. Ff worse. Is it worth giving sf a **** or what will happen if they do ? Who knows. Lol ! If they were the senior partyYes but then you and me and our kids are left to deal with the Consequences of that....
It's always easy to be the opposition, but sinn fein say very little to inspire me they are any better than status quo and I am desperate for change. Sadly there is zero viable alternatives
I can see there being big financial issues here soon , spending curtailed , taxes increased or both. There are too many black holes and way too much exploitation now because of very loose and generous systems0 -
So success would be:
But what if they succeed?
It will certainly drive the other parties to raise their standards, stop the constant waste of tax payers money that we have seen in every government for the last few decades, and actually force parties to keep their promises if they ever want to be elected again for government. Whether subsequent governments would be SF, FF or FG you could only view that as a good thing for the country.
The problem as I see it is not that FG or FF have not had good policies, its that they have abysmally failed at delivering those polices. I think that is also being recognised by a larger and larger proportion of the electorate at each election. If they cant deliver, give someone else the chance.
SF in government would be an experiment, there is no doubt of that, but on balance I could see it as being a positive thing rather than negative. At least it will stop FF or FG automatically assuming that they will be in government or the subsequent government at every election.
1. Eliminating homelessness (of both the on-the-street variety, and the folks who can't get council houses)
2. Building hundreds of thousands of homes
3. Eliminating unemployment
4. Even higher taxes for higher earners without driving those workers out of the country
5. Higher taxes on big multinationals without driving them out of the country
6. No waiting lists in hospitals
7. First-rate hospitals in every county, with first-rate staff and services
8. Pay rises for public sector workers
9. A united Ireland
10. Ireland firmly within or without the EU (depending on whether it's present day Sinn Fein, or Sinn Fein from a decade ago in power)
Have I missed anything?0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »There are a few more checks in place than last time. Don’t europe have to approve our budget now ( thank god ) becAuse we are incapable of running this countries finances prudently
I wish this were true but the same problems are bubbling beneath the surface just with a different name.
Last time around 1/5 of our economy was based on construction and the taxes from that... right now 1/5 of our tax revenue is based on corporate taxes and I think 40% of that is made up from the top 10 companies.
SF’s policies are straight out of the Bertie FF playbook , narrow the tax base And Further Increase the reliance on a volatile tax - all to buy votes and be popular.
What happens when SF go after the corporates and we no longer have the tax we rely on ?0 -
I wish this were true but the same problems are bubbling beneath the surface just with a different name.
Last time around 1/5 of our economy was based on construction and the taxes from that... right now 1/5 of our tax revenue is based on corporate taxes and I think 40% of that is made up from the top 10 companies.
SF’s policies are straight out of the Bertie FF playbook , narrow the tax base And Further Increase the reliance on a volatile tax - all to buy votes and be popular.
What happens when SF go after the corporates and we no longer have the tax we rely on ?
Just to add some balance, FG never paid any sort of credence to the ESRI or the Fiscal Advisory gang. They're not really in a position to throw stones now.0 -
People posting on here about giving SF a chance and sure if it doesn’t work out well no worries ... eh no your obviously too young to remember the last crash or it didn’t affect you.
It’s not just an experiment .. the last downturn affected peoples lives for a decade or more , people had to put life decisions on hold (children,jobs,housing) , had to emigrate , people committed suicide due to the downturn and many other side effects.
A stable economy is taken for granted by those who don't seem to understand the consequences of a downturn. We can’t let what happened before happen again.
I’m not sure I trust any of the parties to have learnt the lessons of the past But I have a real concern that SF would crash the economy if elected.
You do realise the current housing crisis is affecting people's lives, for over a decade... Putting them on hold etc.... It's all about perspective0 -
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TheSheriff wrote: »You do realise the current housing crisis is affecting people's lives, for over a decade... Putting them on hold etc.... It's all about perspective
Absolutely it is affecting people’s lives, but then it’s also a continuation from the crash which I’m discussing, you can’t separate the two. One led to the other.0 -
Just to add some balance, FG never paid any sort of credence to the ESRI or the Fiscal Advisory gang. They're not really in a position to throw stones now.
FG would have just as likely crashed the economy as FF did. I seem to recall them saying at the time we should spend more and add to our property boom.0 -
FG would have just as likely crashed the economy as FF did. I seem to recall them saying at the time we should spend more and add to our property boom.
Yes they wanted more petrol thrown on the flames. We’d have had the crash and Fg also followed broadly what ff would have during the recession.0 -
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Well that's what the public was voting for in FF - so that's evidently what the public wanted.FG would have just as likely crashed the economy as FF did. I seem to recall them saying at the time we should spend more and add to our property boom.
Sometimes you need to hold the electorate accountable for what they incentivise politicians to do and say.0 -
Latest Red C has both FF and SF on 24%
FG appears stuck on 21%0 -
Well that's what the public was voting for in FF - so that's evidently what the public wanted.
Sometimes you need to hold the electorate accountable for what they incentivise politicians to do and say.
Very true people wanted lower taxes and the boom to go on and on , people on moderate wages were buying 2nd and 3rd homes, often abroad.
We should know better now, we should have learnt from before and this is what worries me , SF are offering populism and to hell with the consequences , FF and FG are talking tax cuts to buy votes.0 -
People posting on here about giving SF a chance and sure if it doesn’t work out well no worries ... eh no your obviously too young to remember the last crash or it didn’t affect you.
It’s not just an experiment .. the last downturn affected peoples lives for a decade or more , people had to put life decisions on hold (children,jobs,housing) , had to emigrate , people committed suicide due to the downturn and many other side effects.
A stable economy is taken for granted by those who don't seem to understand the consequences of a downturn. We can’t let what happened before happen again.
I’m not sure I trust any of the parties to have learnt the lessons of the past But I have a real concern that SF would crash the economy if elected.
I only wish I was as young as you imply.
Only 3 in my year at school remained in Ireland. 2 farmers sons and a lad that was lucky enough to be accepted for Garda training college. The rest spread to the world within months.
I left school in 1984. Was smart enough to qualify for 3rd level and got the results to allow that in the NIHE Limerick, but there was no way that was going to happen. Only the very wealthy could afford 3rd level education back then.
For my 18th birthday I got a a birthday card with a bus/ferry ticket to Victoria station in London, and £250 sterling to give me a start. I honestly dont know how my parents managed to save that sort of money, everyone was completely broke and living from one pay packet to the next.
Got myself some decent jobs in the UK, saved my money, paid for further education out of my own pocket and returned to Ireland in the mid nineties.
Only to see not much had changed. Yes the economy was on the up, but all the same mistakes and mismanagement in government were still there.
By 1999 I could see the writing on the wall, my rent was sky rocketing, and I told my friends thy were idiots to put themselves in so much debt to buy a house that they were bringing their own sandwiches into work for lunch and couldnt even afford a few pints on a Friday night. Low and behold Ireland was bust again a few years later but in the meantime I had found work I Europe and was living there.
Came back in 2011. And do you know what, FF and FG are still playing the same game, still telling the world we have such a great economy, and still cant deliver the promises they make every election.
So do I remember, absolutely, and I can say with certainty that while this country is run by FF and FG nothing will ever change. It will be boom and bust til the end of time, each time the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.
What this country needs is for another party to be in government, if only to give FG and FF the serious kick up the arse they need to finally get their acts together and realise that when they go into government they have to deliver their program of government that they were elected to carry out if they are fortunate enough to win a general election. Also that public money is a valuable resource and it cant be squandered in the way it consistently has.
I have been fortunate enough in life to always be one of those that pay significant amounts of tax in the higher tax band, both here and in the UK.
I dont begrudge paying that tax, not for one minute, but I do begrudge party's that make promises and never deliver. Either they were deliberately deceiving the electorate at general elections to get voted in, or were totally incompetent. In both cases they should be fired and never allowed back again in government unless they remove those ministers and taoiseach's that failed in both their duties and promises.
I would say exactly the same thing about SF if they failed in government. But they havent, so I will support them in this general election and any other party that has yet to fail in government.
Is that clear enough for you?
Making excuses for failure just isnt on.
You claim that the economy is all important, yet this government has squandered billions of euro.
Forget about the unemployed that never worked and probably never will, they are a tiny problem this country will always have no matter which party is in power.
Concentrate on the big issues, housing, education, health and making Ireland a safe place for ordinary decent people whether they be rich or poor.
FG have failed abysmally at all of them in the last nine years, and I wouldn't trust FF under any circumstances while they propose to put the very ministers and leaders responsible for the crash back into government.0 -
Very true people wanted lower taxes and the boom to go on and on , people on moderate wages were buying 2nd and 3rd homes, often abroad.
We should know better now, we should have learnt from before and this is what worries me , SF are offering populism and to hell with the consequences , FF and FG are talking tax cuts to buy votes.
Ff aren’t tax cuts. They have spoken of welfare increases for all0 -
Great post Efanton. Those that run for office here are absolute morons. That is the biggest issue.0
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Brussels Sprout wrote: »Tackling our massive carbon emissions and dwindling biodiversity.
Ah we'll be grand once the other countries do it for us. We're only a speck in the ocean0 -
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We are like a battered and abused wife that won't leave her husband because she thinks she can't do any better. At this stage I'm voting for any party except FF or FG. I know policies and direction are important but personality also plays a part and I think FF made a massive mistake putting Mehole Martin forward. I would wager that a lot of people would vote FF but the thoughts of the slithery hand rubbing smug fecker that Martin is becoming Taoiseach puts them off.0
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I only wish I was as young as you imply.
Only 3 in my year at school remained in Ireland. 2 farmers sons and a lad that was lucky enough to be accepted for Garda training college. The rest spread to the world within months.
I left school in 1984. Was smart enough to qualify for 3rd level and got the results to allow that in the NIHE Limerick, but there was no way that was going to happen. Only the very wealthy could afford 3rd level education back then.
For my 18th birthday I got a a birthday card with a bus/ferry ticket to Victoria station in London, and £250 sterling to give me a start. I honestly dont know how my parents managed to save that sort of money, everyone was completely broke and living from one pay packet to the next.
Got myself some decent jobs in the UK, saved my money, paid for further education out of my own pocket and returned to Ireland in the mid nineties.
Only to see not much had changed. Yes the economy was on the up, but all the same mistakes and mismanagement in government were still there.
By 1999 I could see the writing on the wall, my rent was sky rocketing, and I told my friends thy were idiots to put themselves in so much debt to buy a house that they were bringing their own sandwiches into work for lunch and couldnt even afford a few pints on a Friday night. Low and behold Ireland was bust again a few years later but in the meantime I had found work I Europe and was living there.
Came back in 2011. And do you know what, FF and FG are still playing the same game, still telling the world we have such a great economy, and still cant deliver the promises they make every election.
So do I remember, absolutely, and I can say with certainty that while this country is run by FF and FG nothing will ever change. It will be boom and bust til the end of time, each time the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.
What this country needs is for another party to be in government, if only to give FG and FF the serious kick up the arse they need to finally get their acts together and realise that when they go into government they have to deliver their program of government that they were elected to carry out if they are fortunate enough to win a general election. Also that public money is a valuable resource and it cant be squandered in the way it consistently has.
I have been fortunate enough in life to always be one of those that pay significant amounts of tax in the higher tax band, both here and in the UK.
I dont begrudge paying that tax, not for one minute, but I do begrudge party's that make promises and never deliver. Either they were deliberately deceiving the electorate at general elections to get voted in, or were totally incompetent. In both cases they should be fired and never allowed back again in government unless they remove those ministers and taoiseach's that failed in both their duties and promises.
I would say exactly the same thing about SF if they failed in government. But they havent, so I will support them in this general election and any other party that has yet to fail in government.
Is that clear enough for you?
Making excuses for failure just isnt on.
You claim that the economy is all important, yet this government has squandered billions of euro.
Forget about the unemployed that never worked and probably never will, they are a tiny problem this country will always have no matter which party is in power.
Concentrate on the big issues, housing, education, health and making Ireland a safe place for ordinary decent people whether they be rich or poor.
FG have failed abysmally at all of them in the last nine years, and I wouldn't trust FF under any circumstances while they propose to put the very ministers and leaders responsible for the crash back into government.
So according to you the thousands of school leavers who went to college in 1984 came from the very wealthy families? That's is pure and utter rubbish and anyone who looked at the background of the students then would know that. You should have put those comments out on You Tube with some lad playing a sad song on the fiddle
And good luck with that S.F. not squandering your tax money policy0
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