Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

Huntergonzo

Well not voting for FF is easy, Micheal Martin was a government minister in the worst government this country has ever seen. It's incredibly disheartening to see them top of the poll and he'll almost certainly going to be Taoiseach.

Must be a serious case of amnesia in this country!

As for FG, I voted for them once before, they haven't done anything about the catholic church controlling publicly funded schools, which is a red line issue for me, so they're out.

But as for the rest, not a hope I'll vote for the loony left (SF, PBP, Social Democrats), nor the Archbishop McQuaid style Aontu or Renua. The Greens will jump straight back into power with FF and they'll do no favours for farmers so they can fcuk right off.

Can't really see myself voting, I don't believe in voting for 'the least worst option' and I don't fall for the media propoganda that you have to vote or you have no right to complain......because of course they'll say that, they want you to vote!

is_that_so

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well not voting for FF is easy, Micheal Martin was a government minister in the worst government this country has ever seen. It's incredibly disheartening to see them top of the poll and he'll almost certainly going to be Taoiseach.

Must be a serious case of amnesia in this country!

As for FG, I voted for them once before, they haven't done anything about the catholic church controlling publicly funded schools, which is a red line issue for me, so they're out.

But as for the rest, not a hope I'll vote for the loony left (SF, PBP, Social Democrats), nor the Archbishop McQuaid style Aontu or Renua. The Greens will jump straight back into power with FF and they'll do no favours for farmers so they can fcuk right off.

Can't really see myself voting, I don't believe in voting for 'the least worst option' and I don't fall for the media propoganda that you have to vote or you have no right to complain......because of course they'll say that, they want you to vote!

Maybe look at who you wouldn't mind in the Dail representing your constituency?

Idbatterim

Good post above. I can absolutely see the logic in what you saying and I am sure there are many like you. You’d need someone prepared to get their hands dirty to solve problems here and I think k as it’s a small parochial country that is now so pc, nobody wants to offend anyone. We just have paralysis and I actually think things will get worse.

Idbatterim

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not about affordability for more tax, we should not have to!

You think people should be damaging the environment, more than necessary, so that can spend the tiny difference on irrelevant ****e ?

Huntergonzo

is_that_so wrote: »

Maybe look at who you wouldn't mind in the Dail representing your constituency?

To be honest the only politician I like in my constituency is Helen McEntee, but that's a vote for FG, and I don't want to vote for them.

is_that_so

Huntergonzo wrote: »

To be honest the only politician I like in my constituency is Helen McEntee, but that's a vote for FG, and I don't want to vote for them.

Make it a vote for Helen McEntee not FG so. They are pretty unlikely to be back in situ so you're safe!

car_radio19834

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Lol seriously.

You would have more money in your pocket.

Where were you the last time FF were in power?

When they left government NOONE had more money in their pocket.

I mean, that's just untrue.

I wasn't working in 2008 but I was able to see around me.

I'm comfortable with taking responsibility for my own decisions and making surer I'm financially stable. I wouldn't go taking a 100% mortgage and then going tits up and claiming FF were the problem.

Huntergonzo

Idbatterim wrote: »

Good post above. I can absolutely see the logic in what you saying and I am sure there are many like you. You’d need someone prepared to get their hands dirty to solve problems here and I think k as it’s a small parochial country that is now so pc, nobody wants to offend anyone. We just have paralysis and I actually think things will get worse.

It's all the spin, flat out lies and negative campaigning (ie giving out stink about the competition rather than proposing realistic solutions) that annoys me.

It's hard to stomach and I avoid it as much as possible, but some of the rubbish you hear is just hilarious. However it's also disheartening to see people just accept it and vote for these charlatans anyway.

I've always said I'd love to see someone running for election and telling nothing but the truth, just as an experiment. No spin, no lies, no false promises, just to see how many votes they'd get.

My money says they'd finish bottom of the list in their constituency because people don't want the truth, that's why politicians tell lies.....because it gets them elected, it's pretty straight forward.

But the real cherry on the cake is when people then turn around and complain that they were lied to, now those are the people who have no right to complain!!!

Huntergonzo

is_that_so wrote: »

Make it a vote for Helen McEntee not FG so. They are pretty unlikely to be back in situ so you're safe!

Ah listen, I don't care that much about Helen, she's the 'least worst' option.

Also it seems like something of a pointless vote knowing she'll have no say whatsoever in the next government. Best to stay at home and save the petrol.

Field east

machaseh wrote: »

The Irish should all vote for sinn Féin. The only way to get the Brits out and to have some real change in this country.

It won't happen until all the baby boomers passed away though. That will not be before 2030.

Unfortunately I don't have voting rights here in Ireland, so all I can do is shout from the side line.

Being a dutchman living in Dublin for over 2 years, I used to have the policy of not meddling with Irish politics. Sadly the perpetual FF/fg cycle is beginning to affect me to. There is however only little I can do as a foreigner. I am sure as heck NEVER EVER EVER EVER getting Irish citizenship though (unless my country finally sinks into the sea due to climate change ).

.
Sure why don’t u go back to The Netherlands then.

Field east

Bannasidhe wrote: »

While people vote for the same they will get the same.

Stupid is sending the same people back into government and expecting them to keep their promises to look after those who get up early and safeguard the economy when they have never done so in the past.

Who are ‘the same people’ you refer to?

Wanderer78

car_radio19834 wrote:

I'm comfortable with taking responsibility for my own decisions and making surer I'm financially stable. I wouldn't go taking a 100% mortgage and then going tits up and claiming FF were the problem.

So ff didn't play any part in encouraging a building boom, banking regulators to take a wee nap or banks to start blowing their load with the creation of credit?

machaseh

Field east wrote: »

.
Sure why don’t u go back to The Netherlands then.

Because my job is here and I make a point of not changing jobs every year, but to stay at least 2-3 years per job. This is my second job here in ireland. So at best I'll leave this country early next year or perhaps even later and will be stuck with FF/FG.

ELM327

Idbatterim wrote: »

You think people should be damaging the environment, more than necessary, so that can spend the tiny difference on irrelevant ****e ?

No, I think that where possible the individual should be allowed retain their income.


We already pay too much income tax in this country. Charging people to commute to work is ridiculous. Increase the property tax. Increase the USC. Bring back water charges.

Field east

car_radio19834 wrote: »

They spent money when they had it so was hoping for more of the same. Capital projects happen under FF.

I'd have more money in my pocket.

In order to more enlighten yourself, you might cast your eye over the last circa 70 years and establish why FF were thrown out of government. ‘Cleaning up the economic mess created’ comes to mind

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

We already pay too much income tax in this country. Charging people to commute to work is ridiculous. Increase the property tax. Increase the USC. Bring back water charges.

Well we could make public transport free, encourage them away from private cars, introduce a land value tax, take maybe just a few more quid from large corporations, or even ask them if they wouldn't mind paying the full current rate. Water charges do make sense, but we kinna made a mess of that one, mentioning it now, would be political suicide

Field east

SantaCruz wrote: »

Oddly enough, this is actually exactly the wrong way to govern. You should be putting money aside in the good times so that you can spend it as fiscal stimulus in the bad times - you know, with capital projects.

Do you have any sense where the boom and bust pheonomenon comes from?

And when a war chest is built up , some of it can be spent on capital projects wisely

car_radio19834

Field east wrote: »

In order to more enlighten yourself, you might cast your eye over the last circa 70 years and establish why FF were thrown out of government. ‘Cleaning up the economic mess created’ comes to mind

There was a global financial crash.

FF didn't force anyone take out 110% mortgages did they?

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Well we could make public transport free, encourage them away from private cars, introduce a land value tax, take maybe just a few more quid from large corporations, or even ask them if they wouldn't mind paying the full current rate. Water charges do make sense, but we kinna made a mess of that one, mentioning it now, would be political suicide

PT free is stupid, to be honest, as a large proportion of journeys are already made by free travel pass, and there is no excess capacity on most commuter buses and trains anyway.


Large FDI corporations are here for our low CT rate. If we up it they will leave. 12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing. Not to mention up to 500k jobs at risk.


Property tax that is related to current market value (not 2013), along with water charges implemented by a cross party agreement, would be the way forward.


Stop this idea of "narrowing the tax band". In the UK almost every full time worker pays something into the pot.

Wanderer78

car_radio19834 wrote:

FF didn't force anyone take out 110% mortgages did they?

They encouraged wreckless behaviour that aided the crash, but none of this matters now, as it's highly likely they ll play a significant part in forming the next government, as they have with the current one.

Field east

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well not voting for FF is easy, Micheal Martin was a government minister in the worst government this country has ever seen. It's incredibly disheartening to see them top of the poll and he'll almost certainly going to be Taoiseach.

Must be a serious case of amnesia in this country!

As for FG, I voted for them once before, they haven't done anything about the catholic church controlling publicly funded schools, which is a red line issue for me, so they're out.

But as for the rest, not a hope I'll vote for the loony left (SF, PBP, Social Democrats), nor the Archbishop McQuaid style Aontu or Renua. The Greens will jump straight back into power with FF and they'll do no favours for farmers so they can fcuk right off.

Can't really see myself voting, I don't believe in voting for 'the least worst option' and I don't fall for the media propoganda that you have to vote or you have no right to complain......because of course they'll say that, they want you to vote!

There will be a government WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. And you apparently plan to choose to have absolutely zilch influence in its formation. It’s also madness not to vote down through the complete list - in principal. That is MHO

is_that_so

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ah listen, I don't care that much about Helen, she's the 'least worst' option.

Also it seems like something of a pointless vote knowing she'll have no say whatsoever in the next government. Best to stay at home and save the petrol.

Perhaps but if you see yourself as a voter IMO you need to find a way to register that vote. There's also the strategic protest approach where you choose the no-hopers so that by count 3 none of your selected candidates can transfer to anyone else or have been eliminated.

Yurt2

car_radio19834 wrote: »

There was a global financial crash.

FF didn't force anyone take out 110% mortgages did they?

Even without the financial crash dropkicking the country off the cliff, we would have ended up with egg on our face regardless. The profligacy of those years was out of control.

FF weren't responsible for all the madness, but we had a cabinet full of giddy undereducated ministers thinking they were absolute geniuses when they were actually in the engine room of a train that was on fire, speeding towards a collapsed bridge.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

PT free is stupid, to be honest, as a large proportion of journeys are already made by free travel pass, and there is no excess capacity on most commuter buses and trains anyway.

I do believe making public transport free would help a lot, it would also encourage expansion of the system, it seems to be working well in places it has been introduced.

ELM327 wrote:

Large FDI corporations are here for our low CT rate. If we up it they will leave. 12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing. Not to mention up to 500k jobs at risk.

Majority if not all large corporations don't even pay the full 12.5%, we could start by asking them to, and maybe accept this as stocks and shares, then utilise the use of sovereign wealth funds from there.

ELM327 wrote:

Property tax that is related to current market value (not 2013), along with water charges implemented by a cross party agreement, would be the way forward.

I do believe a land value tax would be more appropriate, it would be political suicide to mention water charges now, so that won't happen either

ELM327 wrote:

Stop this idea of "narrowing the tax band". In the UK almost every full time worker pays something into the pot.

I do actually agree with this.

...anyhow, it doesn't really matter, these ideas more than likely won't be implemented, our country isn't interested in radical changes, or changing much at all

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I do believe making public transport free would help a lot, it would also encourage expansion of the system, it seems to be working well in places it has been introduced.



Majority if not all large corporations don't even pay the full 12.5%, we could start by asking them to, and maybe accept this as stocks and shares, then utilise the use of sovereign wealth funds from there.



I do believe a land value tax would be more appropriate, it would be political suicide to mention water charges now, so that won't happen either



I do actually agree with this.

...anyhow, it doesn't really matter, these ideas more than likely won't be implemented, our country isn't interested in radical changes, or changing much at all

Unfortunately I fear you are correct here.
We'll keep tipping away, give a fiver to the OAPs for their votes, not change much and be completely unprepared for the next downturn.

I dont think land taxes would work as it would disproportionately hit those in the country.

Field east

car_radio19834 wrote: »

There was a global financial crash.

FF didn't force anyone take out 110% mortgages did they?

RIGHT , so as they say ‘ we all partied’

Winning_Stroke

I think everyone should consider the following voting style:

#1 - FF Headliner
#2 - FF secondary person from different part of your consitency
#3 - Independent (but really a FF-er)
#4 - Independent Former PD

A lot done, more to do.

jimmycrackcorm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

As for FG, I voted for them once before, they haven't done anything about the catholic church controlling publicly funded schools, which is a red line issue for me, so they're out.
!

I think what you will find any Catholic run schools is that the parents of the kids attending are happy with the status quo in most cases. Because most Catholics here are that in name only and are nonchalant about religion in school.

Even non practising Catholics with kids in educate together are getting their kids to have extra curricular religion classes so that they can do the whole holy communion thing.

Any government trying to force the schools to change to non religious would quickly find itself it of favour. And how does that work for Protestant or Muslim schools?

jimmycrackcorm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I do believe making public transport free would help a lot, it would also encourage expansion of the system, it seems to be working well in places it has been introduced.

David McWilliams has a great podcast on this. It's a pity we don't have anyone who would push it through. But if this country can't implement water charges like every other European country then they're isn't any hope of changing.

We already do have an example of free pubic transport that gives you a flavour of how it might be unappealing, it's called the Luas red line.

Wanderer78

Winning_Stroke wrote: »

I think everyone should consider the following voting style:

#1 - FF Headliner
#2 - FF secondary person from different part of your consitency
#3 - Independent (but really a FF-er)
#4 - Independent Former PD

A lot done, more to do.

what if you hate everything to do with parties such as ff?

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

David McWilliams has a great podcast on this. It's a pity we don't have anyone who would push it through. But if this country can't implement water charges like every other European country then they're isn't any hope of changing.

We already do have an example of free pubic transport that gives you a flavour of how it might be unappealing, it's called the Luas red line.

its actually where i got the idea from, even though im sure it would be problematic to introduce

our country isnt really ready for radical changes, our political system isnt even prepared for it, as theres very little alternative choices, ff and fg have it blocked up, and it looks like the status quo is gonna remain for some time yet