Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

smurgen

Didn't FG say they'd abolish USC in the run up to the last election?

ThunbergsAreGo

smurgen wrote: »

Didn't FG say they'd abolish USC in the run up to the last election?

And they didn't get a majority and were prevented from implementing it

All the promises being made mean nothing without a majority, which won't happen.

I have accepted there will be no tax reduction with the next government, and looking at the polls it doesn't appear to be an important issue for the Irish people

Idbatterim

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

And they didn't get a majority and were prevented from implementing it

All the promises being made mean nothing without a majority, which won't happen.

I have accepted there will be no tax reduction with the next government, and looking at the polls it doesn't appear to be an important issue for the Irish people

I will accept no tax reductions, if they spend the money on critical issues like infrastructure etc and they can fcuking do one on welfare increases in that case too!

Idbatterim

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

And they didn't get a majority and were prevented from implementing it

All the promises being made mean nothing without a majority, which won't happen.

I have accepted there will be no tax reduction with the next government, and looking at the polls it doesn't appear to be an important issue for the Irish people

yeah they did say that, of course we now have black holes in health and housing, swallowing up vast sums. They they increased welfare by billions over this period too. Remember when they said they made "tough choices" LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!!!

Snow Garden

I have one ask of the next government.

Stop the appalling waste of money in government spending (Health, Welfare, Procurement, Expenses, Allowances).
Especially the waste that happens at the end of the year in order to consume budgets.

James Brown

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

And they didn't get a majority and were prevented from implementing it

All the promises being made mean nothing without a majority, which won't happen.

I have accepted there will be no tax reduction with the next government, and looking at the polls it doesn't appear to be an important issue for the Irish people

I've asked this many times and never get any answers. Can anyone give an example of Labour or Fianna Fail point blank refusing to support any Fine Gael pre election promise? There must be a couple?

ThunbergsAreGo

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I've asked this many times and never get any answers. Can anyone give an example of Labour or Fianna Fail point blank refusing to support any Fine Gael pre election promise? There must be a couple?

Wasn't a red line for FF spend vs tax cuts in the budgets?

I remember some FF lad saying it around budget time

ThunbergsAreGo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I will accept no tax reductions, if they spend the money on critical issues like infrastructure etc and they can fcuking do one on welfare increases in that case too!

I too have come around this way of thinking

Transport is a key issue for me, infrastructure needs to go hand in hand with housing if it's to work

efanton

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

And they didn't get a majority and were prevented from implementing it

All the promises being made mean nothing without a majority, which won't happen.

I have accepted there will be no tax reduction with the next government, and looking at the polls it doesn't appear to be an important issue for the Irish people

Thats nonsense and you know it.

They might not have implemented everything promised in their election manifesto and that's fair enough, as you point out things changed when they had to go into government with a partner.

But there was a program for government that was agreed by both parties. It was FG's responsibility to deliver that program and FF's responsibility to hold them to it. Neither did anything of the kind, they didn't even come close.

ThunbergsAreGo

efanton wrote: »

Thats nonsense and you know it.

They might not have implemented everything promised in their election manifesto and that's fair enough, as you point out thing changed when they had to go into government with a partner.

But there was a program for government that was agreed by both parties. It was FG's responsibility to deliver that program and FF responsibility to hold them to it. Neither did anything of the kind, they didnt even come close.

I was speaking about the USC reduction specifically, I don't know if it was in the program for government but all the demands for spending need to be paid for someway

James Brown

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I was speaking about the USC reduction specifically, I don't know if it was in the program for government but all the demands for spending need to be paid for someway

You suggested it was down to not having a majority and pressure from coalition/junior partners.

Martin: USC ‘will not be axed in next 5 years’
Responding to questions from the Irish Examiner, Mr Martin accused Fine Gael of making “false promises” ahead of the 2016 general election that the USC would be scrapped.

He said he looked “aghast” when the promise was made by Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan because he knew it would be broken.

“I think there were very false promises made in the last election by Leo Varadkar and by Fine Gael that they would abolish USC,” he said. “That was never going to happen... because the money was never there to do that.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/martin-usc-will-not-be-axed-in-next-5-years-972996.html

Government formally drops plans to abolish the much-hated USC
Plans for the abolition of the Universal Social Charge (USC) have been formally dropped by the Government, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe has said.

He is now probing ways of integrating the much-hated tax into the existing PRSI system as signalled by Leo Varadkar during his leadership campaign.

The move marks a divergence from the Programme for Government, which committed Fine Gael and the Independent Alliance to continuing "to phase out the USC".

Going into last year's General Election, Fine Gael promised to abolish the charge over a five-year period. However, Mr Donohoe said he is "very clear on what the long-term endpoint will be for the USC".

"We have a new Minister for Finance and a new Taoiseach. We are entitled to make our assessments of the landing points for important policy areas such as this.

"We believe the landing point is where we integrate the PRSI code into the USC code," he said.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-formally-drops-plans-to-abolish-the-much-hated-usc-35900696.html

Seems FG kinda knew it was just something you say etc. etc.

Bannasidhe

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I was speaking about the USC reduction specifically, I don't know if it was in the program for government but all the demands for spending need to be paid for someway

It was a key election promise made in 2016 by the then Minister of Finance Michael Noonan - if anyone knew the demands made on the Exchequer surely it should be the person responsible for the budget?
You'd expect them to have done the maths before making the promise. :rolleyes:

ThunbergsAreGo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It was a key election promise made in 2016 by the then Minister of Finance Michael Noonan - if anyone knew the demands made on the Exchequer surely it should be the person responsible for the budget?
You'd expect them to have done the maths before making the promise. :rolleyes:

I have given up expecting things from politicians

Thanks above for the links. It's always been the promise that annoyed me, and has likely cost FG alot of "core" voters

James Brown

Still not seen FG stopped from enacting any key policies by junior or 'you scratch my back..' partners.
Nice excuse for poor follow through though.

Bannasidhe

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I have given up expecting things from politicians

Thanks above for the links. It's always been the promise that annoyed me, and has likely cost FG alot of "core" voters

You might find these an interesting read.

In Oct 2015, Kenny said his promise to scrap the USC was a "central tenet" of FG's GE re-election policy.
https://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-usc-2395149-Oct2015/

In Jan 2016, Noonan stood up in the Dail and said FG would phase it out over 5 years of re-elected but there would be "clawbacks" when it came to higher earners.
https://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-scrap-usc-2548728-Jan2016/

Field east

smurgen wrote: »

Possibly one of the biggest reasons for everyone to vote for anyone but FF and FG.

https://www.thejournal.ie/suicide-recession-2-1994514-Mar2015/

RESEARCH ON SUICIDE rates in Ireland has shown that there were 476 more male suicides than would have been expected during 2008 and 2012 had the recession not happened.

I did not realise that FG were also responsible for the recession . I note that Labour are given a free pass- unless you are one of those boardies that likes throwing mud and see how much sticks. As Nixon famously said ‘ accuse him of beating up his wife and let him being seen to deny it’ - even though Nixon knew that his accusation was totally false

smurgen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You might find these an interesting read.

In Oct 2015, Kenny said his promise to scrap the USC was a "central tenet" of FG's GE re-election policy.
https://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-usc-2395149-Oct2015/

In Jan 2016, Noonan stood up in the Dail and said FG would phase it out over 5 years of re-elected but there would be "clawbacks" when it came to higher earners.
https://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-scrap-usc-2548728-Jan2016/

Exactly.so tell us how are we to believe them about their promises now? If anyone thinks they have any intention of trying to reduce housing costs or tackle hospital waiting lists they're living in a dream world.

smurgen

Field east wrote: »

I did not realise that FG were also responsible for the recession . I note that Labour are given a free pass- unless you are one of those boardies that likes throwing mud and see how much sticks. As Nixon famously said ‘ accuse him of beating up his wife and let him being seen to deny it’ - even though Nixon knew that his accusation was totally false

FG cheerleaded the overheating of the economy. Bertie famously said "did not know why people who moaned and complained about the economy did not commit suicide" well it now looks as if 450 people did just that. These people have blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned.

James Brown

With the Cervical check scandal and hospital trolley issues, FG have their own.

joe swanson

Serious amount of shinnerbot threads being started lately this being no exception. I think anyone who is not from the scrounging classes will see through their bluster and sinister underbelly

christy c

So FF and FG have blood on their hands apparently, we have numerous crises, (plus whatever other soundbites there are) yet some of their biggest defenders here want SF to go in to opposition. Makes as much sense as their manifesto

James Brown

joe swanson wrote: »

Serious amount of shinnerbot threads being started lately this being no exception. I think anyone who is not from the scrounging classes will see through their bluster and sinister underbelly

The reverse. Desperate FG/FF folk would be the main culprits I'd imagine. Little sad digs to avoid defending the indefensible.
Ah the scrounging classes. People who expect money for free right? Dara Murphy, Alan Farrell, Maria Bailey?

SF or any party willing to move away from enriching private rental companies from the tax payers pocket is worth a vote IMO.

I Am The Law

joe swanson wrote: »

Serious amount of shinnerbot threads being started lately this being no exception. I think anyone who is not from the scrounging classes will see through their bluster and sinister underbelly

'shinnerbot' thing is gone real old. Got anything else to contribute?

eagle eye

joe swanson wrote:

Serious amount of shinnerbot threads being started lately this being no exception. I think anyone who is not from the scrounging classes will see through their bluster and sinister underbelly

Well I haven't started any thread and I won't vote Sinn Fein either but there is no way I'm voting for FG or FF.
FG and FF are both proven clueless wasters and full of dodgy deals and the likes. Same applies to the Greens and Labour sans the dodgy dealing.
I'm voting independent in the hope that they'll help out my own area because none of these parties have a clue how to run a country.

smurgen

joe swanson wrote: »

Serious amount of shinnerbot threads being started lately this being no exception. I think anyone who is not from the scrounging classes will see through their bluster and sinister underbelly

It's over.give up.

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

It's over.give up.

When you criticise FF/FG you're a shinner. Thems the breaks.
You criticise housing. You get the shinner whatabout. Anything you say from that point on is defending SF

...not that they could be worse than FF/FG.

SantaCruz

Matt Barrett wrote: »

SF or any party willing to move away from enriching private rental companies from the tax payers pocket is worth a vote IMO.

Where does the money come from to pay for all this building?

The taxpayer.

Where does the money come from to fund below-market rate rents?

The taxpayer.

Who pays for the massive inflation caused when we suddenly double the demand for builders/building materials?

The taxpayer.

Jinglejangle69

Was talking to someone who was in Sweden last week.

No litter on the streets, no j walking, people were leaving their bikes down and just walking off safe they won't be robbed.

The whole country has respect for each other and crime is miniscule.

That's why they don't mind paying high taxes, because its not just going to paying for free houses for wasters.

The whole country works together.

Its time we started looking at the attitude of some of our citizens as well as government.

But noone will dare speak the truth.

James Brown

SantaCruz wrote: »

Where does the money come from to pay for all this building?

The taxpayer.

Where does the money come from to fund below-market rate rents?

The taxpayer.

Who pays for the massive inflation caused when we suddenly double the demand for builders/building materials?

The taxpayer.

Building is better than the taxpayer leasing.
The rest is already in place.
TBF you're the first one to raise that regarding the cost of materials. I'm sure the vulture funds factor it into the 25 year leases.
What do you think will happen when the tax payer money to dig out the low income tax payer toddles off with the vulture fund landlords?

SantaCruz

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Building is better than leasing for the taxpayer leasing.

Is it though? You'd have to do a discounted cashflow calculation with some pretty strong assumptions.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The rest is already in place.
TBF you're the first one to raise that regarding the cost of materials. I'm sure the vulture funds factor it into the 25 year leases.

Would you rather the state gambles with finances, or private capital does?