Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

Idbatterim

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I can't help but feel that is what many would like to see here.

It's all "getting tough with those on welfare" isn't it.
Sure why can't the Irishman go home?
Wasn't he an economic migrant?
Why is he claiming British social welfare?
Why should the British State house him? Haven't they enough homeless of their own?

you know what though, it got several people on the show, back working, because they didnt just give up on them and say "here just take it all" welfare I mean. Sometimes you have to be "cruel" to be kind. The irish system actually creates more problems than it solves in my opinion. You create a serious "poverty" trap. Creat a morally unacceptable situation, with some on welfare if they have social housing, having a better living standard than many workers. I can see serious, serious problems in the coming years. If many termpers are now seriously getting tested, give it another few years, of things getting worse for working people with housing. When they see wasters, on easy street, with no stress, no commute, no boss, guaranteed income and roof over the head for nothing. Everyone is ok, while money is there etc, but I cant wait to see how the next few years pan out. I think the country is headed for big problems, way bigger than just housing and health and I am not talking in the event of a crash. Just the current course we are going!

say for example SF got in, I dont think it will happen and I think there could be some pro's to them getting in. But like with brexit, would it stall or postpone or have planned investment cancelled... would consumers panic a bit and cut back spending. Thats what uncertainty creates. then you create a self fullfilling prophecy, economically. look the current situation here with FFG is a farce too in many aspect. there is a lot going on...

Bannasidhe

Idbatterim wrote: »

you know what though, it got several people on the show, back working, because they didnt just give up on them and say "here just take it all" welfare I mean. Sometimes you have to be "cruel" to be kind. The irish system actually creates more problems than it solves in my opinion. You create a serious "poverty" trap. Creat a morally unacceptable situation, with some on welfare if they have social housing, having a better living standard than many workers. I can see serious, serious problems in the coming years. If many termpers are now seriously getting tested, give it another few years, of things getting worse for working people with housing. When they see wasters, on easy street, with no stress, no commute, no boss, guaranteed income and roof over the head for nothing. Everyone is ok, while money is there etc, but I cant wait to see how the next few years pan out. I think the country is headed for big problems, way bigger than just housing and health and I am not talking in the event of a crash. Just the current course we are going!

say for example SF got in, I dont think it will happen and I think there could be some pro's to them getting in. But like with brexit, would it stall or postpone or have planned investment cancelled... would consumers panic a bit and cut back spending. Thats what uncertainty creates. then you create a self fullfilling prophecy, economically. look the current situation here with FFG is a farce too in many aspect. there is a lot going on...

It has also created food banks as a growth 'industry'.
Led to the death of disabled people who were deemed 'fit to work' when they patently were not.

A list of some of the casualities are in this article, I won't list their names but I will quote this section

A few hours after the news broke of Graham’s inquest, an appeal court ruled that universal credit discriminated against disabled people. That the government forced a terminally ill man through a protracted legal battle is a clue as to where we are now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/errol-graham-welfare-uk-benefit-cuts-disability-deaths

It's not "tough love" it's "you're poor - tough".

In ireland we have a system where there is no impetus for employers to pay a living wages as the State supplements the salaries of those with children who are paid minimum wage - that is welfare that aids employers but keeps workers poor. We are told if this doesn't happen jobs will be lost, jobs that don't pay people enough to live on - and if a person doesn't have children they have to suck it up and exist on that wage that is literally not a living wage.
Every 52 weeks working people have to reapply for the State to give them enough money to survive.
How is that morally acceptable?

We have small business' closing as they can't afford public liability insurance but no concern about the jobs lost there.

We have a taoiseach who genuinely seems to believe most people earn €47,000 pa.
but in reality

The CSO estimates that around 137,000 employees are earning the minimum wage or less. Previous studies suggest that up to twice as many people again may be earning more than the minimum wage but less than the living wage. Ireland has a significant issue with low pay, with a far greater prevalence of low paid employment than most of our European peers. We also know that around 110,000 people in Ireland live in poverty despite having a job.

https://www.socialjustice.ie/content/policy-issues/cso-releases-minimum-wage-data

Should the State have to pay welfare to working people because their employers do not pay them enough to live on?
What about those who do not qualify for such payments?
They are in a poverty trap and that is not the fault of those on some kind of social welfare payment (the majority of whom are pensioners certainly not 'unemployed' as FG assure us the rate of unemployment is 4%).

And it's all very well to say these people should upskill and get better jobs but then who is going to work in the creches?
Who is going to wait on tables?
Who is going to serve the pints?
Prep your meal in the restaurant?
Serve you in the shop?
Answer you in the Call Centre?

There are many many jobs paying minimum wage - an estimated 23% of Irish workers are in such jobs - and we need people need to do them - but they are expected to live on €2.20 an hour less than the living wage and pay rent in a private market competing against a government that hands over €700m a year to private landlords because there is not enough social housing to cope with the demand for low cost housing.

The existence of Welfare doesn't create the poor - the existence of salaries that people simply cannot live on creates the poor.
Paying out most of your salary in childcare/rent creating the poor.

pjohnson

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It has also created food banks as a growth 'industry'.
Led to the death of disabled people who were deemed 'fit to work' when they patently were not.

A list of some of the casualities are in this article, I won't list their names but I will quote this section

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/errol-graham-welfare-uk-benefit-cuts-disability-deaths

It's not "tough love" it's "you're poor - tough".

In ireland we have a system where there is no impetus for employers to pay a living wages as the State supplements the salaries of those with children who are paid minimum wage - that is welfare that aids employers but keeps workers poor. We are told if this doesn't happen jobs will be lost, jobs that don't pay people enough to live on - and if a person doesn't have children they have to suck it up and exist on that wage that is literally not a living wage.
Every 52 weeks working people have to reapply for the State to give them enough money to survive.
How is that morally acceptable?

We have small business' closing as they can't afford public liability insurance but no concern about the jobs lost there.

We have a taoiseach who genuinely seems to believe most people earn €47,000 pa.
but in reality

https://www.socialjustice.ie/content/policy-issues/cso-releases-minimum-wage-data

Should the State have to pay welfare to working people because their employers do not pay them enough to live on?
What about those who do not qualify for such payments?
They are in a poverty trap and that is not the fault of those on some kind of social welfare payment (the majority of whom are pensioners certainly not 'unemployed' as FG assure us the rate of unemployment is 4%).

And it's all very well to say these people should upskill and get better jobs but then who is going to work in the creches?
Who is going to wait on tables?
Who is going to serve the pints?
Prep your meal in the restaurant?
Serve you in the shop?
Answer you in the Call Centre?

There are many many jobs paying minimum wage - an estimated 23% of Irish workers are in such jobs - and we need people need to do them - but they are expected to live on €2.20 an hour less than the living wage and pay rent in a private market competing against a government that hands over €700m a year to private landlords because there is not enough social housing to cope with the demand for low cost housing.

The existence of Welfare doesn't create the poor - the existence of salaries that people simply cannot live on creates the poor.
Paying out most of your salary in childcare/rent creating the poor.

Tbf FG acolytes like idbatterim and the rest get turned on by the idea of killing off those not working. You work or else you are a parasite that doesnt deserve housing/food/heat etc. you should never retire.

Eric Cartman

Considering what the media spouted when saoirse mchugh and a tiny handful of other got in last year calling it a ‘green wave’ , if SF get in do we call it a provisional wave, wave of terror or what ?

Field east

smurgen wrote: »

About 40%. And our interest on that debt is about 5.4 billion a year. Not to mind all the USC individuals pay.
What's worse is we have no real tools left to fight downturns and have not made any infrastructure investments. Anyone and I mean anyone saying fg and FF are sensible need to be laughed out of it.

Given the massive national dept that has to be serviced, in what year was the current government in a position to put a few euro together to start seriously investing in infrastructure/social services.? Surely it was not in a position to do so from 2011. The answer ,if given objectively, should put the lie to ‘ ye have been in government for the past nine wears and WHATHAVE YE DONE’?

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Considering what the media spouted when saoirse mchugh and a tiny handful of other got in last year calling it a ‘green wave’ , if SF get in do we call it a provisional wave, wave of terror or what ?

A wave of Ni Cheapaim.


It works because of how it sounds, and because the english translation sums up the mentality of anyone prepared to vote for Sinn Fein ira.

Snow Garden

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Considering what the media spouted when saoirse mchugh and a tiny handful of other got in last year calling it a ‘green wave’ , if SF get in do we call it a provisional wave, wave of terror or what ?

Saoirse did not get in though. She thought she had.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf FG acolytes like idbatterim and the rest get turned on by the idea of killing off those not working. You work or else you are a parasite that doesnt deserve housing/food/heat etc. you should never retire.

"killing off" is a metaphor when you talk about some parties

its not when you talk about SF

some people be better off watching their phrasing imo

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

"killing off" is a metaphor when you talk about some parties

its not when you talk about SF

some people be better off watching their phrasing imo

especially when paraphrasing

I Am The Law

Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election?

I won't be voting for FF or FG, I've had enough.

ELM327

I will be voting FG #1 and #2, FF #3 and #4 and no other preferences.

Field east

smurgen wrote: »

20/20 hindsight.you must be having a laugh.isn't it funny how those snapping up the portfolios had great hindsight to do it? Almost like they'd an inside track?

Financial advisers always advise to purchase when the market has bottomed and exit, in principal, at the top of the market.

smurgen

Christ looks like MM is still cosy with some of his old FF shadowy backers.

https://villagemagazine.ie/micheal-martin-evasive-and-misleading-in-2020/

smurgen

Does anyone know where Simon Harris is or are they trying to make us forget he exists until after the election?

SantaCruz

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf FG acolytes like idbatterim and the rest get turned on by the idea of killing off those not working. You work or else you are a parasite that doesnt deserve housing/food/heat etc. you should never retire.

This is classic far-right American Trumpist bullsh!t.

"Anyone who doesn't agree with my exact political outlook is sub-human scum."

That's unlikely to wind the moderates to SF - head office won't be pleased.

Eric Cartman

SantaCruz wrote: »

This is classic far-right American Trumpist bullsh!t.

"Anyone who doesn't agree with my exact political outlook is sub-human scum."

That's unlikely to wind the moderates to SF - head office won't be pleased.

That sounds like rita harrold during the repeal the 8th campaign, pbp for all time, and quite literally anyone who has ever been murdered by the IRA in mary lous eyes.

smurgen

Some effort they put into the last round of election lies.

https://twitter.com/CorkEventCentre/status/1225422457106051073?s=19

SantaCruz

smurgen wrote: »

Some effort they put into the last round of election lies.

I can't wait to see your reaction when SF don't do everything that they have put in their manifesto...

Bannasidhe

SantaCruz wrote: »

I can't wait to see your reaction when SF don't do everything that they have put in their manifesto...

I look forward to seeing how much the Cork Event Centre will actually cost if and when it is ever finished.

The Government has agreed to a non-repayable grant to ensure that legal challenges to the procurement process can not stall the project any further.

The State has increased its investment from €20 million to €50 million in the space of five years.

The announcement of a Voluntary Ex-Ante Transparency (VEAT) notice by Cork City Council in the Official Journal of the European Union is significant in that it is likely to mean that the work could begin on the project by developers Bam, who have €35m to add to the Government funding pot, in the not too distant future.

Councillors at City Hall will be briefed about the payment on Monday.

The event centre is estimated to cost in the region of €90 million and will seat 6,000 people and would be operated by Live Nation.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-event-centre-update-Once-off-50m-Government-payment-to-recharge-stalled-project-9b02d644-57e8-4b24-ace5-b045e5ac9853-ds

Idbatterim

SantaCruz wrote: »

This is classic far-right American Trumpist bullsh!t.

"Anyone who doesn't agree with my exact political outlook is sub-human scum."

That's unlikely to wind the moderates to SF - head office won't be pleased.

what are you talking about, I agree with a welfare system. I dont agree with this banana republics one, which wouldnt be dreamt of anywhere else. Dont get a welfare bonus unless "long term unemployed", not paid out based on what you paid in. Want to sit on your hole for life? sign here. Whats the cost of renting out very expensive social housing for nothing? Those luxury apartments in dundrum, I know a lad gone into them, E50 a week for a one bed. whats the cost of LPT, management fee and the rent? Id say two k a month, so the taxpayer is only subsidising by like E1800 a month!

So dont talk **** to me, this over the top largesse, is costing billions a year! While the working poor themselves, who are funding it, many are fcucked! But they should wait over a decade for social housing, because those in it, pay nothing, many dont pay their rent. This bull**** isnt worth engaging with. If you think that would be tolerated anywhere else, LOL! LOL!

smurgen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I look forward to seeing how much the Cork Event Centre will actually cost if and when it is ever finished.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-event-centre-update-Once-off-50m-Government-payment-to-recharge-stalled-project-9b02d644-57e8-4b24-ace5-b045e5ac9853-ds

That's only doubled in cost.NCH had quadrupled and that's only so far. Funny that FG and BAM are involved in both projects

SantaCruz

Idbatterim wrote: »

what are you talking about, I agree with a welfare system. I dont agree with this banana republics one, which wouldnt be dreamt of anywhere else. Dont get a welfare bonus unless "long term unemployed", not paid out based on what you paid in. Want to sit on your hole for life? sign here. Whats the cost of renting out very expensive social housing for nothing? Those luxury apartments in dundrum, I know a lad gone into them, E50 a week for a one bed. whats the cost of LPT, management fee and the rent? Id say two k a month, so the taxpayer is only subsidising by like E1800 a month!

So dont talk **** to me, this over the top largesse, is costing billions a year! While the working poor themselves, who are funding it, many are fcucked! But they should wait over a decade for social housing, because those in it, pay nothing, many dont pay their rent. This bull**** isnt worth engaging with. If you think that would be tolerated anywhere else, LOL! LOL!

I'm not sure what you're talking about, or replying to, or why you appear to be addressing me with this message.

smurgen

SantaCruz wrote: »

Is Fine Gael responsible for delivering the event centre, or is it Cork City Council?

Why were FG turning the sod?

smurgen

Where have several of the posts in the last hour gone?

bilbot79

I just don't get why anyone thinks other people will do any better. I actually think Fine Gael deserve a crack purely on the basis of the sterling work done on Brexit.

Deep Thought

I vote for people.. I don’t care what party they are. If they do good for our local area, then they get my vote.. simples

smurgen

Deep Thought wrote: »

I vote for people.. I don’t care what party they are. If they do good for our local area, then they get my vote.. simples

No FGers or FFers called to my door.Are they even trying in Cork?

Wrongway1985

Deep Thought wrote: »

I vote for people.. I don’t care what party they are. If they do good for our local area, then they get my vote.. simples

This is actually silly but certainly not uncommon, in reality then on a national level in doing so you may elect someone who doesn't actually represent your views at all.

A local sitting TD who has a knack for doing well in the popularity contest in my constituency is poor on animal welfare, women's rights amongst others as evidenced by past tenures and alliegences, I won't be voting blindly simply because they do a job locally myself. (won't stop him being a polltopper sadly)

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Noveny's cohort skulking at my door at dinnertime this eve, excellent tactical move before the moratorium. I told them to leave, except much more rudely and after a ten minute tirade. I'm surprised they stayed, I might even give him my last preference.


Jk!

Bannasidhe

smurgen wrote: »

No FGers or FFers called to my door.Are they even trying in Cork?

Well Dara Murphy was my local FG TD so not even trying in Cork was going on for years.... :rolleyes: