Is it not time EVERYONE considers not voting for FF or FG in the upcoming election

is_that_so

smurgen wrote: »

No FGers or FFers called to my door.Are they even trying in Cork?

I've never had someone call to my door, no matter where I've lived but always piles of bumph!

smurgen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Well Dara Murphy was my local FG TD so not even trying in Cork was going on for years.... :rolleyes:

He was mine also.was expecting Colm burke might cover more ground.

Field east

bilbot79 wrote: »

I just don't get why anyone thinks other people will do any better. I actually think Fine Gael deserve a crack purely on the basis of the sterling work done on Brexit.

Do the general public - and especially the young and newly registered voter- realize how bad , to put it mildly, the economy was when the FG led gov got elected.
This was the start of the nine years of government that media and others refer to and then the refrain ‘and what did they do’.

The economy was in free fall,; everybody were against cuts to try and balance the books., ;unemployment was high and climbing ;, property prices in free fall ;,fear rampant at all levels eg losing the few euro saved in bank, losing job, how to meet bills; serious levels of emigration and general uncertainty at every level.

So the gov had to concentrate all of its effort in turning all of this around in the FIRST FEW YEARS OF THIS NINE PERIOD.
It is only in the last year or two that the gov was in a position to start to grow the economy and address the issues of the day.
During the early days we were constantly reminded of the signs of ‘green chutes’ - the early ones at least turned out to be a bit premature.

I should be of interest to compare the current situation described in the 3rd paragraph above and see if all has been largely/ totallyobliterated.

The current gov may not have addressed some issues sufficiently eg health, housing, BUT the economy has to be put on a sound footing before it can start seriously responding to all the infrastructural /social service needs out there.

I doubt very much if a FG led gov would continue as before for 3 reasons:-
(1) the next 5 yrs will be different to the last 5 years because the economy is in the black/ has been stabilized and more surplus finance is available.
(2) the voters seem to be saying that they want change - while not being clear on what means. An FG led gov can provide that be a change in programme direction/emphasis, etc, etc.
(3) social media and media in general have a very significant and increasing influence on gov and will critique, analyse , etc gov action/inaction and keep it to its programme/targets set out/promise made , etc

Considering all of the above in the round it would not be a ‘big mistake’ if the next five years was lead by FG led gov.
Will the economy be in the black when handed over to the incoming government

machaseh

Field east wrote: »

Do the general public - and especially the young and newly registered voter- realize how bad , to put it mildly, the economy was when the FG led gov got elected.
This was the start of the nine years of government that media and others refer to and then the refrain ‘and what did they do’.

The economy was in free fall,; everybody were against cuts to try and balance the books., ;unemployment was high and climbing ;, property prices in free fall ;,fear rampant at all levels eg losing the few euro saved in bank, losing job, how to meet bills; serious levels of emigration and general uncertainty at every level.

So the gov had to concentrate all of its effort in turning all of this around in the FIRST FEW YEARS OF THIS NINE PERIOD.
It is only in the last year or two that the gov was in a position to start to grow the economy and address the issues of the day.
During the early days we were constantly reminded of the signs of ‘green chutes’ - the early ones at least turned out to be a bit premature.

I should be of interest to compare the current situation described in the 3rd paragraph above and see if all has been largely/ totallyobliterated.

The current gov may not have addressed some issues sufficiently eg health, housing, BUT the economy has to be put on a sound footing before it can start seriously responding to all the infrastructural /social service needs out there.

I doubt very much if a FG led gov would continue as before for 3 reasons:-
(1) the next 5 yrs will be different to the last 5 years because the economy is in the black/ has been stabilized and more surplus finance is available.
(2) the voters seem to be saying that they want change - while not being clear on what means. An FG led gov can provide that be a change in programme direction/emphasis, etc, etc.
(3) social media and media in general have a very significant and increasing influence on gov and will critique, analyse , etc gov action/inaction and keep it to its programme/targets set out/promise made , etc

Considering all of the above in the round it would not be a ‘big mistake’ if the next five years was lead by FG led gov.
Will the economy be in the black when handed over to the incoming government

All of Europe has seen a huge increase in the economy over the last 5 years. This boom is not unique to Ireland, let alone that we can thank Fine Gael for it. As a Dutchman I can speak at least for the Netherlands, employment has increased dramatically, the housing prices have been soaring through the roof, a lot of new construction etc.

Yet Fine Gael has failed to address some very important issues and has failed to let the population as a whole (other than the top few percent) benefit from this boom in the following areas:

- People just cannot afford the rent anymore. Why are highly educated young professionals forced to share a squat with 5 others yet still pay ridiculous rent?
- Why are so many people homeless, even families with children?
- Why is public healthcare still at the level of a third world country?
- Why has there still been made very little progress in terms of public transportation, especially around Dublin, Cork and Galway? Extending Luas to broombridge only is simply not good enough.
- Why is crime increasing and why are the junkies still in the streets of Dublin?

It is time for a change of government to change the things that matter to people of the younger generations for the better.

Idbatterim

not long back from australia, get your degree here etc and then get the hell out of here, thats my advice! outrageous marginal rate, rip off housing for you, free for Maggie cash etc! You'll be reminded of it every day too! You can live somewhere with great weather, outdoor lifestyle. If in health, like so many are, work in a far less stretched system!

mouthful

I will refuse to give any preference whatsoever to FF or FG! There are a few independents standing with racist tendencies- they will also not receive anything from me-

Irrespective of how you feel the important thing is to use your vote by voting and not to use it by not voting, because either way we send a powerful message

Edgware

is_that_so wrote: »

I've never had someone call to my door, no matter where I've lived but always piles of bumph!

I think they all have given up on the doors except for sticking a "Sorry I missed you letter" and run

Bannasidhe

Idbatterim wrote: »

not long back from australia, get your degree here etc and then get the hell out of here, thats my advice! outrageous marginal rate, rip off housing for you, free for Maggie cash etc! You'll be reminded of it every day too! You can live somewhere with great weather, outdoor lifestyle. If in health, like so many are, work in a far less stretched system!

Soooo you advise people to get their 'free' degree (I know it's not free but neither is anyone's housing - 2 can play hyperbowl :P), then go be an economic migrant in someone else's country (immigrant taking their jobs etc etc) paying nothing back to the country that educated you while complaining about people being entitled and wanting free stuff.

And if you think housing is a rip off here wait til you see the prices in Sydney.
Oh - you can't it's hidden by a deluge and before that it was hidden by the smoke of a country literally on fire.

You'll get to PAYE and file a tax return every year. At current rates if you are lucky enough to earn over aus$90k you'll pay aus$20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000 in income tax (Over Aus$180k you'll pay $54,097 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000)... then there's medicare levy...General Sales Tax on purchases...
Pay water charges (:cool:).

You can also get to experience the wonderful variety of Racism in good old Oz.
Enjoy the thrill of nearly every single bit of wildlife trying to kill you as you participate the the Outdoor Life (or shower... use the loo...)

No thanks - Been there. Done that (although I paid for my degrees -all of them, how stupid of me) and got the Hell out of Oz.

smurgen

How many bankers jailed in Iceland after their banking collapse? In a country with a population the size of Munster 300 were jailed.

Meanwhile in Ireland Seany Fitz avoided all charges and had a 22 million eur pension fund to enjoy

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/se%C3%A1n-fitzpatrick-had-22m-pension-fund-on-retiring-as-anglo-ceo-1.3476754

https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-fitzpatrick-not-guilty-3404388-May2017/

smurgen

Another reason not to vote FG ;

https://twitter.com/thecurrency/status/1225761337873174528?s=19

Edgware

smurgen wrote: »

How many bankers jailed in Iceland are their banking collapse? In a country with a population the size of Munster 300 were jailed.

Meanwhile in Ireland Seany Fitz avoided all charges and had a 22 million eur pension fund to enjoy

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/se%C3%A1n-fitzpatrick-had-22m-pension-fund-on-retiring-as-anglo-ceo-1.3476754

https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-fitzpatrick-not-guilty-3404388-May2017/

Fitzpatrick was tried and acquitted on all charges. An innocent man

smurgen

Edgware wrote: »

Fitzpatrick was tried and acquitted on all charges. An innocent man

"On day 126 of the trial Judge John Aylmer this morning said that he intends to direct the jury tomorrow to acquit Mr FitzPatrick of all counts"

Banana Republic. The financial wild wild West.

Edgware

smurgen wrote: »

"On day 126 of the trial Judge John Aylmer this morning said that he intends to direct the jury tomorrow to acquit Mr FitzPatrick of all counts"

Banana Republic. The financial wild wild West.

Dems de rules

smurgen

Edgware wrote: »

Dems de rules

Beginning of the end of dem rules tomorrow buddy! Ye had a good run.

christy c

smurgen wrote: »

Beginning of the end of dem rules tomorrow buddy! Ye had a good run.

Maybe not, we've already seen SF supporters here wanting them to scamper to the comfy opposition benches for another 5 years.

smurgen

christy c wrote: »

Maybe not, we've already seen SF supporters here wanting them to scamper to the comfy opposition benches for another 5 years.

Meaningless post is meaningless.
One success of FG in the interest of balance is their ability to hide Eoghan Murphy and Simon Harris through the campaign. Can't blame em.two massive liabilities to the party. Like ten times Maria Bailey levels toxicity.

christy c

smurgen wrote: »

Meaningless post is meaningless.

What are you waffling about? You mentioned the beginning of the end, not much is going to change if the people you vote in for change just run to opposition.

Bannasidhe

christy c wrote: »

What are you waffling about? You mentioned the beginning of the end, not much is going to change if the people you vote in for change just run to opposition.

I dunno. It would be interesting to see what an actual Opposition would be like.
One that holds the government to account.

markodaly

christy c wrote: »

Maybe not, we've already seen SF supporters here wanting them to scamper to the comfy opposition benches for another 5 years.

This.

Its comedy gold seeing all the SF supporters worried now that they may actually have to go into government if they perform too well.

All of them, without exception, want to end up on the opposition benches and let FF or FG et all at it, the hope of course that in 5 years time they can go in as Number one.

But then, why campaign so hard for a change of government? Surely we need the wise old heads of SF to help da poor and vulnerable people of Ireland, in a way that FF and FG cannot?
Or do we have to wait another 5 years for SF to actually stump up?

christy c

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I dunno. It would be interesting to see what an actual Opposition would be like.
One that holds the government to account.

SF have been in opposition for the past number of years, pity they couldn't have come up with a coherent manifesto in that time. I might even have given them a vote.

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Soooo you advise people to get their 'free' degree (I know it's not free but neither is anyone's housing - 2 can play hyperbowl :P), then go be an economic migrant in someone else's country (immigrant taking their jobs etc etc) paying nothing back to the country that educated you while complaining about people being entitled and wanting free stuff.

And if you think housing is a rip off here wait til you see the prices in Sydney.
Oh - you can't it's hidden by a deluge and before that it was hidden by the smoke of a country literally on fire.

You'll get to PAYE and file a tax return every year. At current rates if you are lucky enough to earn over aus$90k you'll pay aus$20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000 in income tax (Over Aus$180k you'll pay $54,097 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000)... then there's medicare levy...General Sales Tax on purchases...
Pay water charges (:cool:).

You can also get to experience the wonderful variety of Racism in good old Oz.
Enjoy the thrill of nearly every single bit of wildlife trying to kill you as you participate the the Outdoor Life (or shower... use the loo...)

No thanks - Been there. Done that (although I paid for my degrees -all of them, how stupid of me) and got the Hell out of Oz.

Yea we get it, the grass is greener and all.
However, the average Irish people would kill for a health system they have in Oz.
Just saying :pac:

Bannasidhe

markodaly wrote: »

However, the average Irish people would kill for a health system they have in Oz.
Just saying :pac:

This is true, although I did spend a painful 24hrs on a trolley in Brisbane with kidney stones.
It was a nice trolley.
In a lovely corridor.
Very clean.

Wrongway1985

Field east wrote: »

I doubt very much if a FG led gov would continue as before for 3 reasons:-
(1) the next 5 yrs will be different to the last 5 years because the economy is in the black/ has been stabilized and more surplus finance is available.
(2) the voters seem to be saying that they want change - while not being clear on what means. An FG led gov can provide that be a change in programme direction/emphasis, etc, etc.
(3) social media and media in general have a very significant and increasing influence on gov and will critique, analyse , etc gov action/inaction and keep it to its programme/targets set out/promise made , etc

Considering all of the above in the round it would not be a ‘big mistake’ if the next five years was lead by FG led gov.
Will the economy be in the black when handed over to the incoming government

Your positive spin sounds good but you need to remove the blindfold, you doubt they'll continue as the same but you are aware if only even being so vague...

(1)it's intended pension age upped, seems pretty unwarranted if your proposed assurances are in the black, no?
(2)Secondary tax USC was promised to be abolished last time, still on my payslip!! People surely strive for honesty at the least? Simon Coveney pleaded for the trust on Thursday nights Tonight Show, c'mon Simon yer lads promised...
(3)One would hope, won't be in full effect in my constituency for about 10 years I figure.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

This.

Its comedy gold seeing all the SF supporters worried now that they may actually have to go into government if they perform too well.

All of them, without exception, want to end up on the opposition benches and let FF or FG et all at it, the hope of course that in 5 years time they can go in as Number one.

But then, why campaign so hard for a change of government? Surely we need the wise old heads of SF to help da poor and vulnerable people of Ireland, in a way that FF and FG cannot?
Or do we have to wait another 5 years for SF to actually stump up?

Personally I would love nothing more than a SF government.
They might make a balls up, but then nothing would have changed, every government in the last 20 years has been making a balls up,

But what if they actually did some good. SF know that they absolutely must deliver the first time they are in government and because of that they would put a whole lot more effort into it. FF and FG government in the last 20 years havent come even close to delivering their programs for government. If they were doing the junior cert they would be getting NO GRADES the whole way down their results sheet. Even if SF only deliver 60% of what they promise it would be many many times better that any recent FF or FG government, but personally I think they will do better than that. They have too much riding on their first term of office and that will keep them sharp.


We have FF and FG TD's having a chinwags in the corridors,and getting others to vote for them. How could they possibly be doing what is right for the country if they haven't even listened to the debates. Sounds very much like the FG/FF supporters here. Totally blinkered, not prepared to debate or argue their corner and now in complete denial that their empire is collapsing around them because their self entitlement, procrastination, and excuses are no longer being accepted. I cant see a new SF government making those schoolboy mistakes.

Wrongway1985

efanton wrote: »

Personally I would love nothing more than a SF government.
They might make a balls up, but then nothing would have changed, every government in the last 20 years has been making a balls up

I agree but can't see it happening this time round practically rule it out before any vote tbh but maybe next time eh, the 2 main parties continuously are allowed to fail so if it's not SF someone else should be afforded the opportunity instead and if they fail f them out as it should be but unfortunately somehow this duopoly continues to prevail.

Loafing Oaf

markodaly wrote: »

This.

Its comedy gold seeing all the SF supporters worried now that they may actually have to go into government if they perform too well.

All of them, without exception, want to end up on the opposition benches and let FF or FG et all at it, the hope of course that in 5 years time they can go in as Number one.

But then, why campaign so hard for a change of government? Surely we need the wise old heads of SF to help da poor and vulnerable people of Ireland, in a way that FF and FG cannot?
Or do we have to wait another 5 years for SF to actually stump up?

Well presumably these guys want SF to be leading a broad left government, or failing that, going into coalition with FF or FG as the dominant partner. I think it's a reasonable position for an SF supporter to hold out for that rather than go into government after this election as a junior partner of FF or FG, where they would have only a limited influence on government policy. All political parties, even the likes of PBP campaign on the basis of "this is what we do in government", even if they would acknowledge in the same breath that they have a negligible chance of actually getting into government after the election in question.

smurgen

Limerick hospital this morning :

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1226060363650752512?s=09

Eric Cartman

I hope everybody voting green today is happy to know theyre throwing more rural people and commuters into poverty in order to make upper middle class people playing tour de france commuting from their south dublin homes happier.

smurgen

machaseh wrote: »

All of Europe has seen a huge increase in the economy over the last 5 years. This boom is not unique to Ireland, let alone that we can thank Fine Gael for it. As a Dutchman I can speak at least for the Netherlands, employment has increased dramatically, the housing prices have been soaring through the roof, a lot of new construction etc.

Yet Fine Gael has failed to address some very important issues and has failed to let the population as a whole (other than the top few percent) benefit from this boom in the following areas:

- People just cannot afford the rent anymore. Why are highly educated young professionals forced to share a squat with 5 others yet still pay ridiculous rent?
- Why are so many people homeless, even families with children?
- Why is public healthcare still at the level of a third world country?
- Why has there still been made very little progress in terms of public transportation, especially around Dublin, Cork and Galway? Extending Luas to broombridge only is simply not good enough.
- Why is crime increasing and why are the junkies still in the streets of Dublin?

It is time for a change of government to change the things that matter to people of the younger generations for the better.

What I noticed is FGers are quick to absolve them of any responsibility of projects that go to pot. I don't know how many times I've seen them blame ****e or previous government or city councils. The thing is when a government has sincere intentions of tackling an issue they do have the power. A big example of this is the overnight introduction of USC and the raiding of pension reserve funds. Funny how things are no longer unconstitutional when big business needs bailing out.

PopePalpatine

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I hope everybody voting green today is happy to know theyre throwing more rural people and commuters into poverty in order to make upper middle class people playing tour de france commuting from their south dublin homes happier.

Someone's rattled.