General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

beggars_bush

frw5 wrote: »

Is the Green Party mistaking the population of Ireland with the population of China?
They can introduce turning us all into sheep here by some magic wand it wont do sh*t for environment.

A simple change is the type of forestry being planted

Geuze

Imreoir2 wrote: »

What? How are they "for illegal immigration"?

The Green Party are for ending DP, which is a good idea, but aren't for faster processing of the AS (i.e. 7 days max), and deporting the bogus AS.

I suspect that the GP want to allow bogus AS to stay.

They don't want to implement new policies to discourage bogus AS.

eagle eye

AS?

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

AS?

Asylum seekers

Imreoir2

Geuze wrote: »

The Green Party are for ending DP, which is a good idea, but aren't for faster processing of the AS (i.e. 7 days max), and deporting the bogus AS.

I suspect that the GP want to allow bogus AS to stay.

They don't want to implement new policies to discourage bogus AS.

Hard to see how an application could be afforded due process in one week. The Green Party supports implemeting the recommendations of the McMahon Report.

Johnny_BravoIII

frw5 wrote: »

Is the Green Party mistaking the population of Ireland with the population of China?
They can introduce turning us all into sheep here by some magic wand it wont do sh*t for environment.

This reasoning for doing nothing is not sound IMO.
Two mains reasons for 'doing something'
- Moral imperative - we exist in a sphere of personal responsibility. As a population we have a moral imperative to do as much as possible. If you moved into a new house. Would you not clean your garden if both neighbours hadn't bothered to do so? What story will be pass down to our kids, grandkids and great grandkids. Will we really tell them we did nothing because China did nothing? Is that leadership? Is that a reflection of who we are as a people?

- Example setting - English speaking, western democracy with massive dispora and a relatively small population. We have the opportunity to show what can be done. Example: smoking. Remember an idea always starts with 1 person.

Shelga

What pisses me off the most about FF is that they still have Micheal Martin front and centre, a man who was Minister for Trade during the last years of the boom. They could have spent the last 12 years clearing out the crap from the party, nurturing new faces, showing they've learned from their mistakes. But no, Micheal is desperate to be Taoiseach. I will never vote for them again and I don't want them anywhere near government.

I gave the SDs my #1 and I don't think I'll do that again, as it's clear they just want to snipe from the sidelines.

Would never vote for Sinn Fein in a million years.

All of the options are rubbish. But think FG is the only way to go at this point. We need stable government.

ThunbergsAreGo

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Hard to see how an application could be afforded due process in one week. The Green Party supports implemeting the recommendations of the McMahon Report.

Some very interesting stats in there, thanks. I was surprised by the amount of leave to remain and the lack of emphasis on the process itself within that document.

BonnieSituation

McGrath reported as saying Micheal is getting the top job first on RTÉ this morning.

I really hope the Greens reject this deal.

I can't face that charlatan as Taoiseach.

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

McGrath reported as saying Micheal is getting the top job first on RTÉ this morning.

I really hope the Greens reject this deal.

I can't face that charlatan as Taoiseach.

He's better than Leo...not saying much but there you go

Jesus FG, FF, The Greens. The Unholy Trinity in goverment. SF as the alternative

An embarrasement of riches in the Dáil...

frw5

So overall nothing changes. No burning issues are addressed, everything is put under the carpet, people didn't get what they voted for. And bare in mind they are managing basically one medium sized city and can't do even that. Starting plans on leaving the country. + the co2 nonsense and expenditure around that in a country with 6 million people. Shocking.

is_that_so

BonnieSituation wrote: »

McGrath reported as saying Micheal is getting the top job first on RTÉ this morning.

I really hope the Greens reject this deal.

I can't face that charlatan as Taoiseach.

Be prepared to face it. The other option is the rest of the summer with our government and an election in September or October.

is_that_so

frw5 wrote: »

So overall nothing changes. No burning issues are addressed, everything is put under the carpet, people didn't get what they voted for. And bare in mind they are managing basically one medium large city and can't do even that. Starting plans on leaving the country.

It's always the case that some people never get what they voted for. It's down to blocks of TDs agreeing a deal. That's democracy.

frw5

is_that_so wrote: »

It's always the case that some people never get what they voted for. It's down to blocks of TDs agreeing a deal. That's democracy.

Democracy would be technocracy/letting the wisest decide and the majority of votes prevailing.
This is a "coins marketplace" we have right now in our politics.

Hermy

frw5 wrote: »

Democracy would be technocracy/letting the wisest decide and the majority of votes prevailing.
This is a "coins marketplace" we have right now in our politics.

And who would decide who the wisest are?

Cal4567

For the life of me I cannot see FF surviving this if they go into government with FG. How will they be able to differentiate themselves from FG and criticise?

Never mind the Green members, but will FF members support this? I guess like a decade ago we will see soundbites such as 'unprecedented extraordinary times' etc.

namloc1980

To all the people saying "nobody voted for this", do they actually understand our system at all?

ELM327

frw5 wrote: »

So overall nothing changes. No burning issues are addressed, everything is put under the carpet, people didn't get what they voted for. And bare in mind they are managing basically one medium sized city and can't do even that. Starting plans on leaving the country. + the co2 nonsense and expenditure around that in a country with 6 million people. Shocking.

>50% of people voted for this.
Do you not understand simple maths?

namloc1980 wrote: »

To all the people saying "nobody voted for this", do they actually understand our system at all?

+1
I think there should be an IQ test before being allowed to vote.
People claiming SF won the election and "de peeple voted for change" with less than 1/4 of the votes and the second highest number of seats, is risible.


FF+FG+GP have over 50% of the seats, and over 50% of the vote.

Snow Garden

Shelga wrote: »

I gave the SDs my #1 and I don't think I'll do that again, as it's clear they just want to snipe from the sidelines.

Would never vote for Sinn Fein in a million years.

All of the options are rubbish. But think FG is the only way to go at this point. We need stable government.

I voted SD too but I think the election result was perfect. It forced FG and FF together for the first time ever. They are 2 sides of the same coin but this coalition should end the civil war politics nonsense. I hope they merge into 1 party and maybe we can get better opposition parties.

ELM327

Snow Garden wrote: »

I voted SD too but I think the election result was perfect. It forced FG and FF together for the first time ever. They are 2 sides of the same coin but this coalition should end the civil war politics nonsense. I hope they merge into 1 party and maybe we can get better opposition parties.

To be honest I think that's the way it should go.
Then we can have some serious political management and ideology discussions. A centre-right party (FFG) and a left wing party (SF) as the two main parties would make sense.

mariaalice

Who is getting what job in the new cabinet?

namloc1980

mariaalice wrote: »

Who is getting what job in the new cabinet?

Unknown at this point.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

Who is getting what job in the new cabinet?

That's the big question!

Kiith

Michael Martin in till 23, then Leo back in apparently.

https://twitter.com/TodayRadioRTE/status/1272480139490799618

ThunbergsAreGo

ELM327 wrote: »

To be honest I think that's the way it should go.
Then we can have some serious political management and ideology discussions. A centre-right party (FFG) and a left wing party (SF) as the two main parties would make sense.

Neither FG or FF are right wing at all though?

But yeah, it would be nice to have some choice in ideology and approaches

beggars_bush

frw5 wrote: »

So overall nothing changes. No burning issues are addressed, everything is put under the carpet, people didn't get what they voted for. And bare in mind they are managing basically one medium sized city and can't do even that. Starting plans on leaving the country. + the co2 nonsense and expenditure around that in a country with 6 million people. Shocking.

What people? 24%?

Brussels Sprout

From what I have seen of the programme for government so far I think the Greens have really maximised their clout given their relatively small number of seats. I look forward to seeing the usual suspects in the party call for it's rejection though.

ELM327

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Neither FG or FF are right wing at all though?

But yeah, it would be nice to have some choice in ideology and approaches

They are right wing by comparison to the others here! They are at best centre right. FF even less so.


(I'm an extreme right wing voter, think the PDs or renua, without the religious nonsense)

frw5

beggars_bush wrote: »

What people? 24%?

If the party which was already in place got a small percentage of votes, FG, and after the elections nothing has changed, what do you mean by what people or what change?

ThunbergsAreGo

ELM327 wrote: »

They are right wing by comparison to the others here! They are at best centre right. FF even less so.


(I'm an extreme right wing voter, think the PDs or renua, without the religious nonsense)

Oh yeah, totally agree. I think the phrase is "best of a bad lot"

rob316

Mad, the ball is in FG court after this pandemic, I'd be calling for an election again if I was Leo. Martin is a awful and represents the old gaurd of FF.

Dyr

namloc1980 wrote: »

To all the people saying "nobody voted for this", do they actually understand our system at all?

Do all the people who post about voters not understanding the system understand that Michael Martin explicitly ruled out coaltion with Fine Gael during the election?

Probably not, memory issues I'd say

Itssoeasy

Bambi wrote: »

To all the people who post about voters dont understanding the system understand that Michael Martin explicitly ruled out coaltion with Fianna Fail during the election?

Probably not, memory issues I'd say

That's some achievement to rule out coalition with his own party.

Dyr

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That's some achievement to rule out coalition with his own party.

He's noted for his cautious approach

StupidLikeAFox

Michael Martin 2 weeks before the election:

Speaking to reporters in Dublin on Thursday, Mr Martin said: “People want change, that’s the message we’re receiving, they want Fine Gael out of office and we’ve made it very clear we want to go into government with other centre parties, clearly Labour and the Greens are the ones we’d be interested going into government with, but that’s to be determined by the people.

“Fine Gael need to come out of government, they’ve been there too long, they haven’t delivered on key issues such as housing, health and the impact of cost of living on many people.

“The people want a new government, that means a completely new government.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-miche%C3%A1l-martin-rules-out-fianna-f%C3%A1il-fine-gael-grand-coalition-1.4149063

Brussels Sprout

rob316 wrote: »

Mad, the ball is in FG court after this pandemic, I'd be calling for an election again if I was Leo. Martin is a awful and represents the old gaurd of FF.

I'm sure they'd love a General Election. They just don't want to be seen to be calling one in the middle of a Pandemic. A lot of them will be hoping the Greens don't get the 2/3 majority.

namloc1980

Bambi wrote: »

Do all the people who post about voters not understanding the system understand that Michael Martin explicitly ruled out coaltion with Fine Gael during the election?

Probably not, memory issues I'd say

Unfortunately for him that's not how the election went.

titan18

ELM327 wrote: »

They are right wing by comparison to the others here! They are at best centre right. FF even less so.


(I'm an extreme right wing voter, think the PDs or renua, without the religious nonsense)

I'd say FF are more centre left and FG are centre. I would have considered FG centre right before they got into government but they moved during it. There's no credible right wing party atm, particularly economically right.

ELM327

titan18 wrote: »

I'd say FF are more centre left and FG are centre. I would have considered FG centre right before they got into government but they moved during it. There's no credible right wing party atm, particularly economically right.

I agree 100%

feargale

ELM327 wrote: »

(I'm an extreme right wing voter, think the PDs or renua, without the religious nonsense)

Renua without religion? Did you ever try whiskey without alcohol?

titan18

feargale wrote: »

Renua without religion? Did you ever try whiskey without alcohol?

Their fiscal conservatism is why I voted for them in 2016. They didn't run a candidate in my area in 2020. I don't agree with the religous stuff, but I don't care about it enough to not vote for them when I agree with a lot of the economic parts.

L1011

titan18 wrote: »

Their fiscal conservatism is why I voted for them in 2016. They didn't run a candidate in my area in 2020. I don't agree with the religous stuff, but I don't care about it enough to not vote for them when I agree with a lot of the economic parts.

What economic parts? There was nothing left by 2020; they had become a single issue religious party.

BonnieSituation

is_that_so wrote: »

Be prepared to face it. The other option is the rest of the summer with our government and an election in September or October.

I'd be pretty happy with that.

The rehabilitation of FF is one of the most idiotic things ever for any party to engage in, least of all FG.

An Ciarraioch

L1011 wrote: »

What economic parts? There was nothing left by 2020; they had become a single issue religious party.

By 2020, they essentially only existed as a Twitter account, and the admin seemed exclusively exercised about immigration.

An Ciarraioch

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Michael Martin 2 weeks before the election:


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-miche%C3%A1l-martin-rules-out-fianna-f%C3%A1il-fine-gael-grand-coalition-1.4149063

Of course, he also explicitly ruled out Sinn Féin during the campaign - at the time, FF were expecting to have the numbers with Lab, Greens and the Soc Dems, as they were aiming for 45-55 seats in their own right.

Hurrache

rob316 wrote: »

Mad, the ball is in FG court after this pandemic, I'd be calling for an election again if I was Leo. Martin is a awful and represents the old gaurd of FF.

The Express are delighted anyway. They've no idea of how politics work, and it's great that Varadkar really got under their skin over brexit.

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1272525518290718723

An Ciarraioch

Hurrache wrote: »

The Express are delighted anyway. They've no idea of how politics work, and it's great that Varadkar really got under their skin over brexit.

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1272525518290718723

Wait until the next Brexit meeting happens, and (in all probability) he shows up as the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

namloc1980

Have to laugh at all the SF fans on social media taking shots at MM and LV for scraping in on the 6th or 8th counts in the GE as if it somehow makes them illegitimate. I'm 100% certain that SF would have much preferred to get 2 candidates over the line on the 8th count in all those constituencies where they ran just 1 candidate and polled c.2 quotas.

namloc1980

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Wait until the next Brexit meeting happens, and (in all probability) he shows up as the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

"Minister for FA with special responsibility for Brexit" :pac:

JP Liz V1

It would be better for Leo to continue as Taoiseach first