Employer withholding pay

lawred2

DesperateDan wrote: »

My take? I literally quoted OU812's take. We're now making up scenarios where the OP is on a zero hour contract, which was not mentioned.

I have worked four zero hour contracts, they all either had a clocking system or simply wrote down the hours and paid me (never needing me to verify).

Their process is the result of either a lack of trust in staff or management ineptitude (or both).

OP said they were on a zero hour contract on page one

Zenify

To clear up a few things I am on a zero hour contract, my contract also states I will get paid at the start of the month in arrears for previous month (doesnt mention pending timesheet).

This timesheet is a new thing that employers actually have to have signed by their employees for some regulation. Approving the schedule is not because of trust but for regulation. Not paying wages is mostly a strategy to get the employees to sign it. This was the first time I forgot .

Hopefully this clears up a few things

Jim2007

Zenify wrote: »

It's more about the fact that this is allowed to happen, I think this shouldn't be allowed.

For heavens sake, you are supposed to be an adult, take responsibility for your actions, or in this case your in action. Expecting an employer to organise their payroll process around your inability to follow a simple procedure is ridiculous.

OU812

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I don't think that's fair when there's only one day you're allowed press the button. Anyone can get distracted, particularly over Xmas.

Not when there’s money involved.

Dav010

OU812 wrote: »

Not when there’s money involved.

It’s a pretty good motivator to press the “approve” tab.

OU812

DesperateDan wrote: »

Have you ever in your life worked in a job that forced you once a month to tell them you wanted paying?

Bizarre setup OP but it sounds like you have to play by their rules, no matter how ridiculous they are.

Yes. Several times.

Personal responsibility at play here. Neglect to act, don’t get paid. It’s simple really.

Jim2007

DesperateDan wrote: »

Have you ever in your life worked in a job that forced you once a month to tell them you wanted paying?

Bizarre setup OP but it sounds like you have to play by their rules, no matter how ridiculous they are.

Apart from a few permanent positions, I've never worked a contract where I did not have to complete time sheets, get them approved by a given date in order to get paid that month, otherwise it gets held over until the following month. Most of these kind of companies do not have full-time payroll staff to deal with all the 'special' people who can't follow the procedure.

Seve OB

DesperateDan wrote: »

My take? I literally quoted OU812's take. We're now making up scenarios where the OP is on a zero hour contract, which was not mentioned.

I have worked four zero hour contracts, they all either had a clocking system or simply wrote down the hours and paid me (never needing me to verify).

Their process is the result of either a lack of trust in staff or management ineptitude (or both).

try post 11

Stheno

Zenify wrote: »

To clear up a few things I am on a zero hour contract, my contract also states I will get paid at the start of the month in arrears for previous month (doesnt mention pending timesheet).

This timesheet is a new thing that employers actually have to have signed by their employees for some regulation. Approving the schedule is not because of trust but for regulation. Not paying wages is mostly a strategy to get the employees to sign it. This was the first time I forgot .

Hopefully this clears up a few things

Are you a direct employee of the company?

RunRoryRun

I think there’s a big difference between having to confirm your hours by a given day and having to re-confirm the hours you’ve inputted ON a given day.

If, for arguments sake, the OP was on a foreign holiday at the end of the month or was getting married or his wife was in labour, so you think it’s still reasonable that he not be paid because he was unable to log in and approved on that day?

I don’t know whether they are allowed to do this or not, but it’s not reasonable and a lousy way to operate.

Jim2007

RunRoryRun wrote: »

If, for arguments sake, the OP was on a foreign holiday at the end of the month or was getting married or his wife was in labour, so you think it’s still reasonable that he not be paid because he was unable to log in and approved on that day?

Argument sake would be that the OP would use the option to approve it before he goes on holidays, it's the first time this kind of thing happens and I'm sure it is addressed in the company's procedures.

RunRoryRun

Jim2007 wrote: »

Argument sake would be that the OP would use the option to approve it before he goes on holidays, it's the first time this kind of thing happens and I'm sure it is addressed in the company's procedures.

If that option were available, then that would be perfect. The OP has said that is NOT an option and that the approval can only be done ON the final day, not BY the final day of each month. That’s the unreasonable part of it’s the case.

Zenify

It can only be approved on the last day of the month.

TheChizler

Sounds very unreasonable, they're restricting you to a very specific period of time to approve it. It would be more reasonable if there was 2 or 3 days between that and payday for anyone without Internet access to complete it.

Is payroll run the first day in the month? Or is it a few days later and this rule about having to approve it on the last day totally unnecessary?

Dav010

TheChizler wrote: »

Sounds very unreasonable, they're restricting you to a very specific period of time to approve it. It would be more reasonable if there was 2 or 3 days between that and payday for anyone without Internet access to complete it.

Is payroll run the first day in the month? Or is it a few days later and this rule about having to approve it on the last day totally unnecessary?

Unreasonable? Op said you can view time worked, every day, you just have to approve on the last day of the month. If you add another fees days on, pay would be delayed those extra few days, and you would still have a deadline for approval, what happens if you forget that day?

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

Unreasonable? Op said you can view time worked, every day, you just have to approve on the last day of the month. If you add another fees days on, pay would be delayed those extra few days, and you would still have a deadline for approval, what happens if you forget that day?

The way I read it is that the op has to approve the hours for the last day of the month ON the last day of the month, so there's only a single day's opportunity to secure your pay for that month. Maybe I'm wrong.

Is not unusual for pay day to occur a few days after the period worked, I've been in a couple of jobs where it was up to an entire week later.

Pauliedragon

It seems like an odd system. I sign in and out online as most of us do these days but on the odd occasion I forget I get paid anyway as HR would know if I was absent and inform payroll accordingly. At the very least someone could have sent a message saying look I'm finalising the wages and noticed you haven't approved said hrs can you double check.

Stateofyou

Why isn't their payroll person reaching out to those who haven't approved yet on that day? I did payroll for years early on in my career, and this is what we did. It's a courtesy, people are human and sh*t goes sideways, we helped each other out if needed.
Why can't the OP be paid then at least for the days being input by the employer? If it's wrong because final approval wasn't received in time, it can be adjusted on the next pay. Then the employee won't be out their pay - for a whole month which is too long to wait. Even more of a reason for payroll dept to follow up with approvals needed.

Strumms

Shît company, you have turned up, done your work and because of a supposed oversight you get ZERO pay. That’s unacceptable. Ensuring employees get paid for the work they do is of paramount importance.

In a previous job one of our jobs which was rotated amongst the team was the time calculator... say it was my turn, I’d run a report on the Monday for the previous week and check the hours worked in the system vs scheduled hours vs holidays etc... a spread sheet was sent to the manager and the entire team and anybody who saw a discrepancy in it got back to the manager, be it an oversight on my behalf or maybe they filled in a timesheet wrong but that way, having it visible and transparent meant that nobody lost out, due to an oversight (as can happen) at either end...

In the op’s instance, the management would have been 100% aware that they had worked and owed the employee some communication such as “hey your hours are not showing what’s the story”...it’s a text or phone call, they'd be fast enough on the blower to them if they needed the OP for OT... so a call to sort out a payment anomaly isn’t or shouldn’t be too difficult.

kirving

_Brian wrote: »

This a thousand times over.
We’ve completely lost personal accountability.

Well, I'm glad it hasn't happened to you.

What kind of absolutely crap employer doesn't pause for a second and say "you know what, OP normally works X hours per month, I might as well pay them the average over the past 6 months so they're not stuck, and correct the balance next month".

Simple, easy, fair, and a reminder email would likely ensure it doesn't happen again.

Or, get this for a wild suggestion, a phonecall to the OP, or their manager to check the situation?

Do you really think omitting to click a check box deserves no salary for a month?

Jim2007 wrote: »

For heavens sake, you are supposed to be an adult, take responsibility for your actions, or in this case your in action. Expecting an employer to organise their payroll process around your inability to follow a simple procedure is ridiculous.

Get over yourself. No normal company operates this way.

How about next time you overstay a parking meter by 10 second due to "your inability to follow a simple procedure", you get find €2000.

Do you think that would be fair? Be honest now.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Shît company, you have turned up, done your work and because of a supposed oversight you get ZERO pay. That’s unacceptable. Ensuring employees get paid for the work they do is of paramount importance.
.

Not “a supposed oversight”, an actual oversight on the op’s behalf. The employer in this case is ensuring the op gets paid the correct amount, by approval of his/her hours worked at the end of each month. The op got ZERO pay, because he/she alone forgot to approve it.

jaxxx

Hmm. I'm getting an odd scent of fish here.. .. ..

Dav010

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Do you really think omitting to click a check box deserves no salary for a month?

If you know you have to simply click that box to get paid, wouldn’t you make sure you do it to get paid for every month?

Given how much time we spend online on our phones, could this actually be simpler?

RunRoryRun

Dav010 wrote: »

Given how much time we spend online on our phones, could this actually be simpler?

It could. The company could not require them to do it on the last of the month. Much simpler.

slavetothegrind

must do wonders for morale this binary approach?

Would payroll staff not bother at all to investigate an anomaly? would they just go feck it, their problem, feck their mortgage payment.
I wouldn't do that in that position as a human i would check, a phone call FFS is not too difficult.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Not “a supposed oversight”, an actual oversight on the op’s behalf. The employer in this case is ensuring the op gets paid the correct amount, by approval of his/her hours worked at the end of each month. The op got ZERO pay, because he/she alone forgot to approve it.

So because an error was made they deserve no pay. ? There should be another level of approval .ie management which I’m sure there is, hours not showing = quick communication to check, sorted, solved, payed...it’s not hard, errors happen, part of work life, part of every facet of life... shouldn’t mean someone misses payment.

Dav010

RunRoryRun wrote: »

It could. The company could not require them to do it on the last of the month. Much simpler.

Yes of course, allow 2 more days, what if the op forgets then, considering he/she knew there was an existing deadline. The op forgot to do it before the end of a particular date, what difference does the date make?

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

So because an error was made they deserve no pay. ? There should be another level of approval .ie management which I’m sure there is, hours not showing = quick communication to check, sorted, solved, payed...it’s not hard, errors happen, part of work life, part of every facet of life... shouldn’t mean someone misses payment.

Do you not think getting paid is important enough to ensure you simply click a tab on the same day each month? I understand errors are made, but if you make an error as important as this, you accept your responsibility in making that error. Why blame the employer? the requirements are extremely simple to understand, and execute, click the tab.

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

Do you not think getting paid is important enough to ensure you simply click a tab on the same day each month?

What if you're on a flight or a ferry? What if you're abroad? What if you're sick? Broadband down? There are many conceivable ways for you to be unable to use the Internet for a few hours. By the sounds of it they don't even have the full 24 hours to approve, how could you approve the hours for that day if you haven't worked them yet?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Do you not think getting paid is important enough to ensure you simply click a tab on the same day each month? I understand errors are made, but if you make an error as important as this, you accept your responsibility in making that error. Why blame the employer, the requirements are extremely simple to understand, and execute, click the tab.

Because in any company there should be checks and balances, especially when something so important like pay is involved....

If an employee saw an error on a xxx report and just thought, ok not my task I’m not going to bother my arse flagging it to the manager who made the error, that’s not good, works both ways.