Employer withholding pay

kirving

Dav010 wrote: »

If you know you have to simply click that box to get paid, wouldn’t you make sure you do it to get paid for every month?

Do you think that that outcome of not clicking a box should be:

A) The payroll people using a shred of cop on and decency and issuing the payment?
The OP missing mortgage payments, going hungry, but learning a "lesson"that no reasonable would ever actually enforce again?

Maybe we should lock up people who overstaying parking tickets for 1 minute for 20 years. They wouldn't make that mistake again.

When I see these threads, I realise how little life experience many posters on here actually have.

Dav010

TheChizler wrote: »

What if you're on a flight or a ferry? What if you're abroad? What if you're sick? There are many conceivable ways for you to be unable to use the Internet for a few hours. By the sounds of it they don't even have the full 24 hours to approve, how could you approve the hours for that day if you haven't worked them yet?

If my aunt had nuts, she’d be my uncle.

How many days of the year go by without us being online on our phones?

Dav010

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Do you think that that outcome of not clicking a box should be:

A) The payroll people using a shred of cop on and decency and issuing the payment?
The OP missing mortgage payments, going hungry, but learning a "lesson"that no reasonable would ever actually enforce again?

Maybe we should lock up people who overstaying parking tickets for 1 minute for 20 years. They wouldn't make that mistake again.

When I see these threads, I realise how little life experience many posters on here actually have.

You know, when I read posts like this, I realise how little responsibility people are willing to take for their own mistakes, and how much they want to blame others.

If you want to get paid, pay the mortgage, buy food etc, then clicking that tab should be extremely important for you.

slavetothegrind

not everyone has the phone glued to them outside of work, i know this shocks you but it is true.

TheChizler

Dav010 wrote: »

If my aunt had nuts, she’d be my uncle.

How many days of the year go by without us being online on our phones?

Irrelevant, it just takes one day where its not possible to get online for this situation to happen.

Strumms

It’s fûcking simple, if at the end of the week, I’m doing a pay report, Dav010 is showing worked 32 hours, no clock in for Tuesday, no holiday booked off, I can actually remember bumping into them though in the canteen while buying a coke, talking about the match on Monday, weird... talk to their boss, yep Dav was working, I’ll stick them in for 8 hours, a quick email reminding them to clock in, they get paid, the OVERSIGHT isn’t punished, nobody looses.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

It’s fûcking simple.

It couldn’t be any simpler, click on a tab the last day of each month. Get paid.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

It couldn’t be any simpler, click on a tab the last day of each month. Get paid.

Responsible companies run reports to reconcile payments, spot errors, oversights on both ends, human factors influence this and any credible company will do this to ensure EVERYONE on both sides gets accurate and pays accurate payments... it’s not alien it’s commonplace in work life.

slavetothegrind

Also you want to compel an employee to engage with work on a day off just to satisfy some payroll process?
NO.
Your process is wrong.

Not to mention the attitude to employees.

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

It’s fûcking simple, if at the end of the week, I’m doing a pay report, Dav010 is showing worked 32 hours, no clock in for Tuesday, no holiday booked off, I can actually remember bumping into them though in the canteen while buying a coke, talking about the match on Monday, weird... talk to their boss, yep Dav was working, I’ll stick them in for 8 hours, a quick email reminding them to clock in, they get paid, the OVERSIGHT isn’t punished, nobody looses.

Ding, you're fired for falsification of an official record. And Dav010 is on a written warning for failing to clock in.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ding, you're fired for falsification of an official record. And Dav010 is on a written warning for failing to clock in.

If they have worked 8 hours it’s not falsification, it’s accurately reporting their actual hours, ding !

Stateofyou

Dav010 wrote: »

You know, when I read posts like this, I realise how little responsibility people are willing to take for their own mistakes, and how much they want to blame others.

If you want to get paid, pay the mortgage, buy food etc, then clicking that tab should be extremely important for you.

So, you've never made a mistake? Never? Any reasonable and honest person would admit that of course they have. Has that mistake at work resulted in an entire months' earned wages lost? For many people, that would cause huge issues as they live paycheck to paycheck. Last I checked, we're all human. Payroll is a function of human resources. To not even bother about caring about the people who work for you would be an employer I would want to leave as quickly as possible. Turnover for employers is costly, so you want to be treating your employees well. Every company I've ever worked for would have the payroll dept reaching out or doing something actively about non-submitted hours when you know they weren't on leave. It's not about how simple it is or isn't to push a button. Life happens, mistakes happen, we're all human. But take care of your employees, and they will take care of you.

Strumms

Stateofyou wrote: »

So, you've never made a mistake? Never? Any reasonable and honest person would admit that of course they have. Has that mistake at work resulted in an entire months' earned wages lost? For many people, that would cause huge issues as they live paycheck to paycheck. Last I checked, we're all human. Payroll is a function of human resources. To not even bother about caring about the people who work for you would be an employer I would want to leave as quickly as possible. Turnover for employers is costly, so you want to be treating your employees well. Every company I've ever worked for would have the payroll dept reaching out or doing something actively about non-submitted hours when you know they weren't on leave. It's not about how simple it is or isn't to push a button. Life happens, mistakes happen, we're all human. But take care of your employees, and they will take care of you.

100%, if I get an email, “hey Strumms, you are missing a timesheet from 20/01 but we know by email, reports etc that you are in so we will submit 8 hours, please remember as per company policy to submit your timesheet after each shift”....

I’m thinking..”Strumms, idiot, remember to do it”...

If I was just deducted 8 hours, I’m thinking... “yep, my oversight but a mistake should not mean you loose a days pay”...

If a company are that inflexible and to the bone of policy, I become that way too...

“hey Strumms, can you do five hours OT Saturday?” ... “nope I have plans”... without explanation, discussion, or further communication... if they want to be hard asses that cuts both ways.

Dav010

Stateofyou wrote: »

So, you've never made a mistake? Never? Any reasonable and honest person would admit that of course they have. Has that mistake at work resulted in an entire months' earned wages lost? For many people, that would cause huge issues as they live paycheck to paycheck. Last I checked, we're all human. Payroll is a function of human resources. To not even bother about caring about the people who work for you would be an employer I would want to leave as quickly as possible. Turnover for employers is costly, so you want to be treating your employees well. Every company I've ever worked for would have the payroll dept reaching out or doing something actively about non-submitted hours when you know they weren't on leave. It's not about how simple it is or isn't to push a button. Life happens, mistakes happen, we're all human. But take care of your employees, and they will take care of you.

Of course I have, everyone has. But as a grown up, I take responsibility for my mistakes and don’t blame others when I forget to do things that are important.

Stateofyou

Dav010 wrote: »

Of course I have, everyone has. But as a grown up, I take responsibility for my mistakes and don’t blame others when I forget to do things that are important.

I don't think the OP is blaming others. Didn't they post to ask if their employer can do that? I think it sounds like responsibility was taken, for not pressing the final button. On New Years EVE.
I also think OP is allowed to be annoyed at a very unreasonable and nonsensical policy in which a once off mistake caused them to be without pay an entire month after Christmas.
Instead of lectures on responsibility, what this poster needs is black and white facts. What are the payroll laws here, anyone know for sure? It's been a long time since I was in payroll here, and last I knew about payroll laws was from my work in the US. There it was ultimately the employers responsibility to ensure wages are paid so this would never happen. OP, I'll try to dig around and see what I can find about what the law says.

Dav010

Stateofyou wrote: »

I don't think the OP is blaming others. Didn't they post to ask if their employer can do that? I think it sounds like responsibility was taken, for not pressing the final button. On New Years EVE.
I also think OP is allowed to be annoyed at a very unreasonable and nonsensical policy in which a once off mistake caused them to be without pay an entire month after Christmas.
Instead of lectures on responsibility, what this poster needs is black and white facts. What are the payroll laws here, anyone know for sure? It's been a long time since I was in payroll here, and last I knew about payroll laws was from my work in the US. There it was ultimately the employers responsibility to ensure wages are paid so is would never happen. OP, I'll try to dig around and see what I can find about what the law says.

Ok, here is a black and white fact, December 31st is the last day of the month, last December and every December. Even if it’s New Year’s Eve, it should not come as a surprise to the op.

In the ops job, it is the responsibility of the employee to check and approve their hours because it is a zero hour contract and hours are not regular. That is black and white.

Here is another black and white fact, the mistake was the op’s.

You know that the op has posted that he/she has already contacted the WRC and they informed him/her there is no specific legislation about this, but dig away, it’s not like the WRC would know anything about matters like this.

Stateofyou

Dav010 wrote: »

Ok, here is a black and white fact, December 31st is the last day of the month, last December and every December. Even if it’s New Year’s Eve, it should not come as a surprise to the op.

In the ops job, it is the responsibility of the employee to check and approve their hours because it is a zero hour contract and hours are not regular. That is black and white.

Here is another black and white fact, the mistake was the op’s.

Come on now, I've seen some of your responses on this board and they're sound. You seem to know a lot about HR, if not working in HR?
What does the LAW say about an employer's responsibility towards paying employees? Would you happen to know which law to refer the OP to that would have that info?

Stateofyou

Dav010 wrote: »

Ok, here is a black and white fact, December 31st is the last day of the month, last December and every December. Even if it’s New Year’s Eve, it should not come as a surprise to the op.

In the ops job, it is the responsibility of the employee to check and approve their hours because it is a zero hour contract and hours are not regular. That is black and white.

Here is another black and white fact, the mistake was the op’s.

You know that the op has posted that he/she has already contacted the WRC and they informed him/her there is no specific legislation about this, but dig away, it’s not like the WRC would know anything about matters like this.

Sorry, missed this part. Pre-coffee yet this morning.

So, if there's no specific legislation and it's a grey area, then there's no need to bash OP over the head with lectures of blaming and responsibility. It was a once off mistake, but employers should also want to treat their employees better and have a better system or safety net in place too, if that's the setup they're going to have.

rock22

I think there is an arguable case that what the employer has done is illegal. It would be well to go to your union official.

There is a n obligation on the employer to issue a statement of earnings and to make the relevant payment as soon as possible (""relevant payment is made by a mode specified in section 2 (1) (f), as soon as may be thereafter,)
There is no provision to delay payment not is there any provision for demanding agreement from the employer that the statement is correct. in other words, an employee could say "I will not check and/or authorise the statement" and the employer still has the obligation to pay the amount specified "as soon as may be thereafter,".

But
Have you asled your employer to make an interim payment because you have received no wages? Any decent employer would make such a payment and deduct the amount at the end of the month when they would be paying you for two months . If you haven't asked then I would suggest doing so now.

Dav010

Stateofyou wrote: »

Come on now, I've seen some of your responses on this board and they're sound. You seem to know a lot about HR, if not working in HR?
What does the LAW say about an employer's responsibility towards paying employees? Would you happen to know which law to refer the OP to that would have that info?

Sorry, I edited my post after checking back on ops previous posts, he/she contacted WRC and they confirmed there is no specific legislation relating to this. Putting in expenses to be paid at the end of month would be a similar, but not identical accepted method of getting paid. The only reason the op has this arrangement, as confirmed by the op, is that it’s a zero contract hours for casual work. Hours/pay is therefore irregular, giving the op the chance to check it before payment, is not burdensome, it is in self interest.

Seve OB

Strumms wrote: »

It’s fûcking simple, if at the end of the week, I’m doing a pay report, Dav010 is showing worked 32 hours, no clock in for Tuesday, no holiday booked off, I can actually remember bumping into them though in the canteen while buying a coke, talking about the match on Monday, weird... talk to their boss, yep Dav was working, I’ll stick them in for 8 hours, a quick email reminding them to clock in, they get paid, the OVERSIGHT isn’t punished, nobody looses.

TBH If I was running the payroll I think I'd find a way every month to make sure Dav didn't get paid anything at all and I'd blame him for not being human and let him know that the payroll can't process payments to heartless trolls

GerardKeating

TheChizler wrote: »

Irrelevant, it just takes one day where its not possible to get online for this situation to happen.

Dav010 wrote: »

It couldn’t be any simpler, click on a tab the last day of each month. Get paid.

So what happens when an employee wants to take a day or two annual leave at the end of the month?

Or the last day of the month is a bank Holiday ?

OU812

GerardKeating wrote: »

So what happens when an employee wants to take a day or two annual leave at the end of the month?

Or the last day of the month is a bank Holiday ?

It’s online. Go online & press the button. Money quite literally in the bank

kirving

Dav010 wrote: »

You know, when I read posts like this, I realise how little responsibility people are willing to take for their own mistakes, and how much they want to blame others.

If you want to get paid, pay the mortgage, buy food etc, then clicking that tab should be extremely important for you.

We understand how the crappy pay system works. We know it's simple. We know it should be done. Nevertheless, humans are not computers and make honest mistakes.

The likelihood here is that someone saw the hours not submitted, and didn't bother to take 2 minutes out of their day to check. Would you have checked up on it, or just thought "not my problem that OP forgot"?

If we were to introduce a law to say that overstaying a parking ticket was a mandatory prison sentence, I'm sure you would be defending it saying "if you want to avoid prison, making it back to your car in time should be extremely important to you".

Put another way, do you think the punishment fits the crime so to speak?

OU812

Kevin Irving wrote: »

We understand how the crappy pay system works. We know it's simple. We know it should be done. Nevertheless, humans are not computers and make honest mistakes.

The likelihood here is that someone saw the hours not submitted, and didn't bother to take 2 minutes out of their day to check. Would you have checked up on it, or just thought "not my problem that OP forgot"?

If we were to introduce a law to say that overstaying a parking ticket was a mandatory prison sentence, I'm sure you would be defending it saying "if you want to avoid prison, making it back to your car in time should be extremely important to you".

Put another way, do you think the punishment fits the crime so to speak?

Why is it my fault if you neglect to do what you’re supposed to do?

Look at it this way, if someone is processing many payments for people, why should they have to go track down who didn’t do what they’re supposed to. All that will do is reinforce that everyone can be lax in their duty.

If you’re lucky enough to have an automatic payment process, then you’re grand, but if you getting paid is dependent on taking a maximum of five minutes to press a button online (particularly when everyone is walking around with a connected computer in their pocket), then you make a point of doing it.

Set a recurring reminder, take five minutes, jump online & press the button. It’s the OP’s failure to take responsibility for this that has led to the situation, NOT the employer.

rock22

OU812 wrote: »

Why is it my fault if you neglect to do what you’re supposed to do?

...

But you cannot withhold payment of wages like that. Legislation says you must pay as soon as is practical.

nthclare

Is this company based in Shannon by any chance?

Stateofyou

OU812 wrote: »

Why is it my fault if you neglect to do what you’re supposed to do?

Look at it this way, if someone is processing many payments for people, why should they have to go track down who didn’t do what they’re supposed to. All that will do is reinforce that everyone can be lax in their duty.

If you’re lucky enough to have an automatic payment process, then you’re grand, but if you getting paid is dependent on taking a maximum of five minutes to press a button online (particularly when everyone is walking around with a connected computer in their pocket), then you make a point of doing it.

Set a recurring reminder, take five minutes, jump online & press the button. It’s the OP’s failure to take responsibility for this that has led to the situation, NOT the employer.

Why are you playing the blame game? It's NO ONE'S fault. There is human fault, that is a fact of life, and then we have here negligence or apathy by the employer. If there's a fault here, it's that attitude.

Why should they have to track down hours? Because it is their JOB. Or it should be, like is common place in many workplaces. Why are there HR depts. who deal with a whole range of employee relations responsibilities? Because people are people and you throw them together in a workplace, add in life issues and family responsibilities, egos and stress and presto **** happens. The real question is, why should anyone even have to explain that. It's common sense. It's not productive to play the blame game. The OP's workplace needs a better structure and solution because humans will ALWAYS cause human error, and other humans should know that and allow for it. Not a difficult concept.

Dav010

rock22 wrote: »

But you cannot withhold payment of wages like that. Legislation says you must pay as soon as is practical.

The WRC would disagree with you.

OU812

rock22 wrote: »

But you cannot withhold payment of wages like that. Legislation says you must pay as soon as is practical.

Nobody is withholding wages.

The employee has failed to claim them by agreeing the hours being claimed for.

This is obviously in place for the employee to ensure they’re being paid the correct amount.