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Not showing BER rating in advertising

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  • 19-01-2020 12:39pm
    #1
    Howlin
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭


    Hi all,


    I was looking at daft and I noticed there are a number of dwellings that are up for rent but they do not show what the BER of that dwelling is.



    There is a requirement for any dwellings being sold or rented to have their BER rating and energy indicator shown. Does anyone know if there is anyone who is enforcing those requirements?


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    #2
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 25,064 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    It's the local authorities refusing to enforce it for years, claiming lack of resources. The European Commission should be investigating this failure as it is a EU directive
    You can email the Council a complaint and reference the ad
    12. (1) A person who offers for sale or letting (whether in writing or otherwise)
    (a) a new dwelling, the construction of which commences on or after 9 January 2013, or
    (b) a dwelling that is in existence on or before 9 January 2013,
    and any agent acting on behalf of such person in connection with such offering, shall ensure that the energy performance indicator of the current BER certificate for the dwelling is stated in any advertisements, where such advertisements are taken relating to the sale or letting of that dwelling.

    (2) A person who offers for sale or letting (whether in writing or otherwise)—
    (a) a new building other than a dwelling, the construction of which commences on or after 9 January 2013, or
    (b) a building other than a dwelling that is in existence on or before 9 January 2013,
    and any agent acting on behalf of such person in connection with such offering, shall ensure that the energy performance indicator of the current BER certificate for the building is stated in any advertisements, where such advertisements are taken relating to the sale or letting of that building.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/243/made/en/print#


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    #3
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    That doesn't apply to protected structures, which many rental units are.


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    #4
    Howlin
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Howlin


    Protected Structures don't require BER's but many of the rental units I saw on daft aren't protected units and would require a BER.

    I am surprised daft doesn't include a requirement that you have to input those details.


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    #5
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Howlin wrote: »
    Protected Structures don't require BER's but many of the rental units I saw on daft aren't protected units and would require a BER.

    I am surprised daft doesn't include a requirement that you have to input those details.

    How does daft know if they are protected or not?


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    #6
    Howlin
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Howlin


    On the advertisment page have it shown:
    BER Rating: XXXX
    BER Energy Value XXXX

    Have the poster either input the figures or state that a BER Rating not required. Make them mandatory items to be filled in. Put the onus on the poster to input the figures and make a confirmation that they are posting the post in accordance with all laws.


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    #7
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Howlin wrote: »
    On the advertisment page have it shown:
    BER Rating: XXXX
    BER Energy Value XXXX

    Have the poster either input the figures or state that a BER Rating not required. Make them mandatory items to be filled in. Put the onus on the poster to input the figures and make a confirmation that they are posting the post in accordance with all laws.

    since when is daft required to enforce the law?


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    #8
    Howlin
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Howlin


    Daft already has it mentioned to an extent on their house rules.

    They have an option to report an ad, but if they have it mentioned within their house rules, would it not also make sense to include the requirement to input those details when posting an ad?


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    #9
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Daft makes the advertiser solely responsible for the content of the ads. Why should it act as a law enforcer?


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    #10
    Steer55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Steer55


    You can't sell house without a Ber, in majority of cases the sellers haven't got round to having a Ber carried out before houses go up for sale. Either way I wouldn't be too pushed about it. Go to a viewing and you have quick idea what the Ber is by just looking around the house or ring the estate agent.


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    #11
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Having a BER is all well and nice but near in mind its a very unreliable system, and for your own sake please dont assume it is reliable.


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    #12
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    BER can be quite a subjective assessment, full of assumptions. For what it’s worth, I had my own house assessed by 2 assessors... came out with two different results (in the B’s and C’s, we picked the higher one of course).

    And on defending DAFT for not bothering to make a field mandatory when it is the law of the land? That smells ever so faintly of a missing requirement in the web development process rather than a conscious decision.


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    #13
    cosybeach
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭cosybeach


    I gave up ber system long time ago got a few done before got awful result in 1 unit tenants used to have windows open in winter it was so warm one gave it a n E last one was a D only difference it got LED lighting all round and eco friendly appliances.
    I know it is a legal requirement not suggesting others should not follow.


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    #14
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    since when is daft required to enforce the law?

    They were required to stop ads stating that they refused RS/HAP for starters


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    #15
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    pwurple wrote: »
    BER can be quite a subjective assessment, full of assumptions. For what it’s worth, I had my own house assessed by 2 assessors... came out with two different results (in the B’s and C’s, we picked the higher one of course).

    Whichever one was done later is the nominally valid one here and the one that'll show if the MPRN is checked - could catch someone out if the higher one is first.


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    #16
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    L1011 wrote: »
    They were required to stop ads stating that they refused RS/HAP for starters

    Thats not the same though, what you refer to is specifically illegal.
    Not supplying BER with an ad isn't illegal, all that is required is the BER must be supplied for the actual sale, until the sale takes place nothing wrong has be done.

    Thats said it is feckin annoying but you can't really blame daft.


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    #17
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    cosybeach wrote: »
    I gave up ber system long time ago got a few done before got awful result in 1 unit tenants used to have windows open in winter it was so warm one gave it a n E last one was a D only difference it got LED lighting all round and eco friendly appliances.
    I know it is a legal requirement not suggesting others should not follow.
    That sounds precisely like it is working as meant to. Rating changes dramatically when the appliances are upgrade and lighting does too.


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    #18
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    That sounds precisely like it is working as meant to. Rating changes dramatically when the appliances are upgrade and lighting does too.

    Yeah the poster did in fairness give a weak example but an E rated house should not be warm enough to have open windows all day long in winter.

    The rating system is very poor. I know many A rated houses that are ice boxes, mistakes are forgivable but icy A rated houses are unforgivable. BER assessors dont have time to check if the house has the specs it is supposed to have. A energy rating system that actually works is Passive House certification. It costs a lot more but it really works as developed by the private sector.


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