What am I doing wrong here?

howardmarks

Looking for some advice from the experts if I may?
So just off the bike and had a bit of an incident that has me questioning myself. Turning a very slight turn on the way home there and the bike just kept traveling straight.
There was a Bus behind me but the road was a wide enough road to brake and pull in. (All in a straight line) Stopped before the ditch.
Is this a failure to counter steer?
Luckily the road was empty bar me and the bus, which travelled on.
Road was slick enough but the tyres were warm when I checked 5 mins later at home.
Only riding a week.
Speed was circa 80kmph so not racing by any means.
I had a rucksack on which may have affected my steering also.
Anyone?

listermint

You were travelling too fast quite simple.

You can slow down or lean on more .


I'd go with slow especially in this weather.

Mjolnir

You don't need to counter steer to turn it just makes it easier, possibly speed, possibly road position, possibly failure to look where you want to go and not where you're going (looking straight instead of towards where you wanna go).
Honestly someone would need to see you do it to actually diagnose it.
We all get oh **** moments without being able to analysis it you'll never correct it.
If you can't make the turn doing 80 go slower.
Theres bends my way I can do 100km/h on I know beds I wouldn't attempt to do at 60km/h in a car never mind the100km/h limit.

It's all relative dude. Practice, practice, practice. Your eyes steer the bike so just look where ya want to go that moves your body and sets ya on your way.

Mjolnir

Just coped the 80km/h on bad roads.
If you're riding a week you're not as good as you think you are slow it down dude doesn't matter how hot your tire is on ice/frost or black ice. Its skill and experience matters on them.
I came off at low speed due to bike failure not fun.

howardmarks

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
After some reading and reflection I think I focused on the bus behind me too much and then target fixated instead of looking where I wanted to go.
Speed was the limit for the road but I think I felt pressured by the following bus and didn't adjust downwards for the conditions.
Theres so much going on when learning to ride a bike. I definitely need more practice.
My posting here was to learn from what I did wrong so as not to repeat it.
Thanks again

Mjolnir

howardmarks wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
After some reading and reflection I think I focused on the bus behind me too much and then target fixated instead of looking where I wanted to go.
Speed was the limit for the road but I think I felt pressured by the following bus and didn't adjust downwards for the conditions.
Theres so much going on when learning to ride a bike. I definitely need more practice.
My posting here was to learn from what I did wrong so as not to repeat it.
Thanks again

It's all a learning curve we all have squeaky bum moments, learning not to target fixate, panic break and stuff is all par for the course.
F*ck those around you, ride to your abilities if they get mad who cares. Take your time and enjoy it, it's great craic till someone nearly kills ya then great craic when ya calm back down ha

To others, is a week not way too early to be thinking of things like counter steer? I didn't think about that for ages. While I agree that target fixation is the likely cause, he could have just been doing something bizarre with the handles. I don't know.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To others, is a week not way too early to be thinking of things like counter steer? I didn't think about that for ages. While I agree that target fixation is the likely cause, he could have just been doing something bizarre with the handles. I don't know.

Counterteering is a fundamental skill in safe bike handling. Nobody should be riding a motorbike without having learned how to CS without even thinking about it.

howardmarks

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To others, is a week not way too early to be thinking of things like counter steer? I didn't think about that for ages. While I agree that target fixation is the likely cause, he could have just been doing something bizarre with the handles. I don't know.

That was partly what I was asking in my post. What things could I have been doing with the handles that would cause me to go straight when I wanted to veer right. Cause whatever I did wrong I don't want to do it again!

Del2005

howardmarks wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
After some reading and reflection I think I focused on the bus behind me too much and then target fixated instead of looking where I wanted to go.
Speed was the limit for the road but I think I felt pressured by the following bus and didn't adjust downwards for the conditions.
Theres so much going on when learning to ride a bike. I definitely need more practice.
My posting here was to learn from what I did wrong so as not to repeat it.
Thanks again

The roads are frozen, below 2C and roads are subject to freezing, you should have been going way slower and if the bus was close behind you you should report the driver for dangerous driving if you got the reg, a professional driver should know to stay back from a bike when the road conditions are bad. If the bus was keeping back then you've learned a valuable lesson with only a new pair of jocks needed.

It might be worthwhile to get some more lessons.

Mjolnir

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To others, is a week not way too early to be thinking of things like counter steer? I didn't think about that for ages. While I agree that target fixation is the likely cause, he could have just been doing something bizarre with the handles. I don't know.

Ibt instructor should teach it so you can use it during the on the road portion.
It's like trail breaking it should become second nature without a taught as you analyse the turn.
Reduce speed, position, look where your going, counter steering emergency breaking and trail breaking are the parts to focus on anyone can learn to ride straight

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Counterteering is a fundamental skill in safe bike handling. Nobody should be riding a motorbike without having learned how to CS without even thinking about it.

I learned on a scooter in Asia and by the time I got a big bike, I was doing it without thinking.

https://motorbikewriter.com/learn-counter-steer/

"At motoDNA, we find most students simply over-think counter steering. Don’t try to be an engineer, just accept that Newton’s laws have been around for a while and they work. Most riders counter steer subconsciously without even thinking about it, the handlebar input barely noticeable."


Imo, in your first week, you shouldn't be going fast enough that it's an issue, or thinking about it when you have a bunch of other things and your nervers to worry about.

rustynutz

Mjolnir wrote: »

Ibt instructor should teach it so you can use it during the on the road portion.
It's like trail breaking it should become second nature without a taught as you analyse the turn.
Reduce speed, position, look where your going, counter steering emergency breaking and trail breaking are the parts to focus on anyone can learn to ride straight

I didn't think you could physically turn a bike, above a certain speed (circa 40 mph depending on the bike geometry) without counter steering. Either way, don't overthink it, when I started riding bikes I never heard of counter steering, and when I did hear about it, it turns out I was doing it for years unknown to myself. It's likely you lost the front end on either ice, wet or something else (diesel?) On the road. Slow down a little of you are new to riding and ignore tailgaters, or pull in, and consider some additional training

Mjolnir

rustynutz wrote: »

I didn't think you could physically turn a bike, above a certain speed (circa 40 mph depending on the bike geometry) without counter steering. Either way, don't overthink it, when I started riding bikes I never heard of counter steering, and when I did hear about it, it turns out I was doing it for years unknown to myself. It's likely you lost the front end on either ice, wet or something else (diesel?) On the road. Slow down a little of you are new to riding and ignore tailgaters, or pull in, and consider some additional training

I don't advocate others doing it but I can corner my sports bike with no hands on the bars, speed stays up she'll stay up as long as you can balance properly, especially in a straight line.

LLewellen Farquarson

howardmarks wrote: »

That was partly what I was asking in my post. What things could I have been doing with the handles that would cause me to go straight when I wanted to veer right. Cause whatever I did wrong I don't want to do it again!

One possibility is you were stressed/afraid and therefore holding the handlebars too tightly, with your elbows locked and your shoulders tight.

Next time you're on the bike, riding in a straight line, just mentally check your arms/shoulders/hands and see how tight you're holding on. The more "clamped" you are on the bars, the more the bike can't balance itself.

With experience, your grip will start to loosen, so that eventually your are lightly holding the bars, enough to control the throttle and not much more.

Lorddrakul

For my tuppence worth, it does just sound like a combination of target fixation and survival instincts.

There are a few things about riding a motorbike that are counter intuitive, with countersteering being one of them.

When we all learn to ride a bicycle, which is where most of us have our lizard/monkey brain trained for two wheel dynamics, we learn countersteering subconsciously because it is not overt.

We take that into biking and some people get it and others don'.t I had to really work at it, to be honest, as when I started doing track days, I hit a complete wall in terms of lap times because I could not turn the bike quicker. When I began talking to myself in my helmet, repeating all the wisdom of the books, the racers, the instructors etc, I started to see it and experiment and get the hang of it.

Still feels weird mind, but it lets the bike do what it is suppose to do, which then gives you a level of confidence to push on.

But even top level racers sometimes get target fixation, and end up in situations they should have been able to avoid.

Don't beat yourself up, you had a very human reaction to an unfamiliar situation. Now, learn from it and don't let yourself get there again.

And fair play for admitting it.

batman_oh

JayZeus wrote: »

Counterteering is a fundamental skill in safe bike handling. Nobody should be riding a motorbike without having learned how to CS without even thinking about it.

I started without ever knowing what it was over 20 years ago and have never actively bothered doing it as you can't turn a bike without counter steering above slow speed anyway. You might need to think I'm gonna counter steer really hard now for what? To turn more in a corner? I just lean the bike over more in a corner as having done lots of trackdays you are generally nowhere near the limit of the handling when out on the road. Done via unconsciously counter steering which I never spent time learning to do.

The OP seems more like he needs to get a whole lot more experience before thinking about stuff like this as he hasn't got the basics down yet. Then maybe start adding in stuff like this

Colm17RvB

Mjolnir wrote: »

F*ck those around you, ride to your abilities if they get mad who cares. Take your time and enjoy it

This. This! A thousand times this!!

If you think there are areas you need help with talk to your instructor about getting an extra hour or three done to focus on that. I'm riding about 14/15 years and I still try to get out for 2 (minimum 1) sessions a year with a driving instructor. I try to use different instructors so I can get a new perspective. It's a constant learning curve, also people get lazy and develop habits, some good, some bad.

There's also the RoSPA IART group who go out for spins regularly, it's not lessons, it's more experience riders passing on hints and tips to others who tag along.

howardmarks

LLewellen Farquarson wrote: »

One possibility is you were stressed/afraid and therefore holding the handlebars too tightly, with your elbows locked and your shoulders tight.

Next time you're on the bike, riding in a straight line, just mentally check your arms/shoulders/hands and see how tight you're holding on. The more "clamped" you are on the bars, the more the bike can't balance itself.

With experience, your grip will start to loosen, so that eventually your are lightly holding the bars, enough to control the throttle and not much more.

Some great advice from everyone here. Thanks.

This is quite on the money I think.
Big bus behind me, dark roads, bad weather and being inexperienced most likely caused me to go rigid which I have now learned isn't a good thing.

That aside. It's some of the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

jay48

Were you braking and trying to turn at the same time?

howardmarks

jay48 wrote: »

Were you braking and trying to turn at the same time?

I didn't start braking until after I realised the bike wasnt turning

howardmarks

For anyone interested I thought I'd update the post.
I recreated most of the conditions earlier from my original post. Without a bus.
I can say now I was focusing on the bus behind me, wasn't giving the road ahead enough attention and locked up in a panic reducing my ability to steer.

Also to the biker who turned around at murtaghs pub in ballough about half an hour ago just to check all was good as I'd pulled in, cheers!
Bikers are great

zubair

There's lots of great advice on here, but rule 1 especially when in survival mode is to look where you want to go, your muscle memory will do the rest.

Alfasudcrazy

I would not be practicing counter steering or anything else unusual with the roads we have now - practically freezing all day with wet roads. The roads are in total sh1t now over all the tractors spreading slurry. I got a rear wheel spin when the rear wheel went over the white line while overtaking and accelerating in the middle of the day. It even caught out the traction control.

Wait for the summer and dry roads.

Die Hard 2019

JayZeus wrote: »

Counterteering is a fundamental skill in safe bike handling. Nobody should be riding a motorbike without having learned how to CS without even thinking about it.

On the road. Nobody should v riding a bike on the road without understanding leaning and counter steering.
But we all did

Die Hard 2019

howardmarks wrote: »

For anyone interested I thought I'd update the post.
I recreated most of the conditions earlier from my original post. Without a bus.
I can say now I was focusing on the bus behind me, wasn't giving the road ahead enough attention and locked up in a panic reducing my ability to steer.

Also to the biker who turned around at murtaghs pub in ballough about half an hour ago just to check all was good as I'd pulled in, cheers!
Bikers are great

We are awesome

CorkCBR6

howardmarks wrote: »

Looking for some advice from the experts if I may?
So just off the bike and had a bit of an incident that has me questioning myself. Turning a very slight turn on the way home there and the bike just kept traveling straight.
There was a Bus behind me but the road was a wide enough road to brake and pull in. (All in a straight line) Stopped before the ditch.
Is this a failure to counter steer?
Luckily the road was empty bar me and the bus, which travelled on.
Road was slick enough but the tyres were warm when I checked 5 mins later at home.
Only riding a week.
Speed was circa 80kmph so not racing by any means.
I had a rucksack on which may have affected my steering also.
Anyone?

You were traveling too fast in poor conditions for your ability. Very easily done.

I could say things like Target Fixation or you must not understand countersteer but as you've a week experience a simple slow down should suffice!

Take it as a lesson, hopefully you'll have plenty more to learn from because when you don't you're dead. Now that's bike life!

CorkCBR6

Mjolnir wrote: »

I don't advocate others doing it but I can corner my sports bike with no hands on the bars, speed stays up she'll stay up as long as you can balance properly, especially in a straight line.

Yeah the bike naturally wants to countersteer and will do so herself if you're steady enough and you know the lean angle of the corner!

Hotblack Desiato

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

I would not be practicing counter steering or anything else unusual with the roads we have now - practically freezing all day with wet roads. The roads are in total sh1t now over all the tractors spreading slurry. I got a rear wheel spin when the rear wheel went over the white line while overtaking and accelerating in the middle of the day. It even caught out the traction control.

Wait for the summer and dry roads.

You're making it sound like some super special racing technique, it's not.

It's how EVERYONE steers a bike, just some are unaware of what they're doing - which can't be a good thing.

zubair

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

I would not be practicing counter steering or anything else unusual with the roads we have now - practically freezing all day with wet roads. The roads are in total sh1t now over all the tractors spreading slurry. I got a rear wheel spin when the rear wheel went over the white line while overtaking and accelerating in the middle of the day. It even caught out the traction control.

Wait for the summer and dry roads.

Buddy, you do know that white lines are slippy during the day too. It might be worth warning you now that white lines and manholes can be slippery when dry as well.