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Superbowl LIV Thread: 49ers v Chiefs

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Every team does the Ott celebration. I have no issue with it.
    The only issue I have is when the ball just pops into their hands. I can understand making a great play and celebrating it; but many teams go way OTT when it wasn’t even a great defensive play.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭Furryglove


    I know Mahomes got mvp but he fumbled a ball and threw two picks.... Hardly mvp ball security

    Against the best defense in the league, Mahomes carried that team into the Dance and won the game too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,276 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Mahomes played well for 10 minutes, but it was enough to get the W and when there was no real standout it does tend to go to the QB by default. I think Jones had a huge say in the game, and the officials for the non calling of the continuous holds and other contentious flags and non flags ;) but in all honesty the 49ers were up by 10 with like time running down and they can have no complaints really.

    The play calling wasn't perfect, and I lay a lot of that at Shanahans door. Jimmy missed some throws but he also made some and when you have nothing to throw to and are being blitzed I find it hard to totally write him off too. The O line was getting wrecked toward the end, and the receivers were not getting near open or doing enough to step up and help their QB. You see Hill stepping up in the 4th and giving Mahomes an option etc, Sherman is a shut down zone corner. Man to man he is vulnerable, particularly coming back after that achilles going against fast WRs

    I think if they had stayed with the run the 49ers may have got out of there with the win. I disagree with anyone saying that if Shanahan had not gone to the air he'd have been criticised for being too conservative, you play to your strengths. They were up by 10 with the ball, do what you do best and milk the clock. Tell your returner to stop returning from the ****ing 1-5 yard line when he hasnt got out past the 15 or certainly the 20 all game, its just backing yourself up needlessly.

    Delighted for Andy and happy to see Mahomes get a ring, he really is a special player. I wouldn't go writing off either Jimmy or Shanahan yet though. Football is a game of very fine margins, it was the Chiefs day yesterday and no complaints about that but it was looking very much like the 9ers had played the perfect game and Mahomes had had an absolute stinker up until the last few minutes. Very fine margins.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Mahomes played well for 10 minutes, but it was enough to get the W and when there was no real standout it does tend to go to the QB by default. I think Jones had a huge say in the game, and the officials for the non calling of the continuous holds and other contentious flags and non flags ;) but in all honesty the 49ers were up by 10 with like time running down and they can have no complaints really.

    The play calling wasn't perfect, and I lay a lot of that at Shanahans door. Jimmy missed some throws but he also made some and when you have nothing to throw to and are being blitzed I find it hard to totally write him off too. The O line was getting wrecked toward the end, and the receivers were not getting near open or doing enough to step up and help their QB. You see Hill stepping up in the 4th and giving Mahomes an option etc, Sherman is a shut down zone corner. Man to man he is vulnerable, particularly coming back after that achilles going against fast WRs

    I think if they had stayed with the run the 49ers may have got out of there with the win. I disagree with anyone saying that if Shanahan had not gone to the air he'd have been criticised for being too conservative, you play to your strengths. They were up by 10 with the ball, do what you do best and milk the clock. Tell your returner to stop returning from the ****ing 1-5 yard line when he hasnt got out past the 15 or certainly the 20 all game, its just backing yourself up needlessly.

    Delighted for Andy and happy to see Mahomes get a ring, he really is a special player. I wouldn't go writing off either Jimmy or Shanahan yet though. Football is a game of very fine margins, it was the Chiefs day yesterday and no complaints about that but it was looking very much like the 9ers had played the perfect game and Mahomes had had an absolute stinker up until the last few minutes. Very fine margins.

    Agree with a lot of that but for the bold piece the 49ers weren't getting the kind of joy from the run that you and many feel they were. If you take out a big gain from a trick reverse play to Deebo from WR, they were only averaging 3 yards per carry in the 2nd half. The pass plays Kyle called in the 4th mostly got guys open but each time either Jimmy messed it up, the defense made a big play, or the refs missed a call. The best way to milk the clock is by getting first downs, not running for minimal gains and ending up with 3rd and long.

    As you said, very fine margins which just didn't go the 49ers way in the last quarter which makes all the hindsight comments seem like such a stretch.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Mahomes played well for 10 minutes, but it was enough to get the W and when there was no real standout it does tend to go to the QB by default. I think Jones had a huge say in the game, and the officials for the non calling of the continuous holds and other contentious flags and non flags ;) but in all honesty the 49ers were up by 10 with like time running down and they can have no complaints really.

    The play calling wasn't perfect, and I lay a lot of that at Shanahans door. Jimmy missed some throws but he also made some and when you have nothing to throw to and are being blitzed I find it hard to totally write him off too. The O line was getting wrecked toward the end, and the receivers were not getting near open or doing enough to step up and help their QB. You see Hill stepping up in the 4th and giving Mahomes an option etc, Sherman is a shut down zone corner. Man to man he is vulnerable, particularly coming back after that achilles going against fast WRs

    I think if they had stayed with the run the 49ers may have got out of there with the win. I disagree with anyone saying that if Shanahan had not gone to the air he'd have been criticised for being too conservative, you play to your strengths. They were up by 10 with the ball, do what you do best and milk the clock. Tell your returner to stop returning from the ****ing 1-5 yard line when he hasnt got out past the 15 or certainly the 20 all game, its just backing yourself up needlessly.

    Delighted for Andy and happy to see Mahomes get a ring, he really is a special player. I wouldn't go writing off either Jimmy or Shanahan yet though. Football is a game of very fine margins, it was the Chiefs day yesterday and no complaints about that but it was looking very much like the 9ers had played the perfect game and Mahomes had had an absolute stinker up until the last few minutes. Very fine margins.

    In fairness I feel like a lot of Mahomes was the defense causing issues. He was spooked with little time to do much. That defense deserves a lot of credit and got gassed. Then the 49ers offense stopped staying on the field and gassed and didn't give their defense any break.

    I would say I feel like a lot of the criticism of Jimmy G and Shanahan is against the level of the game. I am sure they are holding themselves to the same standard as they wanted to win. There are some giving out about them in general and are wrong. Shanahan is an excellent coach and Jimmy is a very good QB.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,004 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Congratulations to all the Chiefs fans on here. The superbowl got off to a slow start but turned into a really good game in the end.

    I think the difference in the teams in the end was that when the game was on the line in the 4th quarter the Chiefs came up big in high pressure situations, the 49ers went the other way and came up short in key situations.

    There's a lof of blame to go around on the 49ers side of things, I thought thay played really well for 3 and a half quarters but as we all know that was never likely to be good enough.

    I think Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers coaches need to take some criticism here. When the pressure came on and everyone started to panic they needed a it more leadership and ability to slow down but instead the panic spread across the entire team.

    I have no issue with KS's playcalling in the 4th quarter. The 49ers didn't lose because they were too aggressive. They lost because they were not aggressive enough.

    Two huge mistakes from Kyle this evening from my point of view.

    1. Not taking a timeout and trying to score points before halftime. This is unforgivable. You have a tied game and you essentially give up a possession. That is coaching not to lose and not trusting your team.

    2. Not going for it on 4th and 2 and instead kicking a FG. This might have been worse. We saw the chiefs be aggressive on 4th and short and get rewarded for it. The 49ers kicked their FG and it ended up costing them.

    Jimmy went to pieces in the 4th quarter unfortunately. He failed to see wide open receivers in key situations, including one on 3rd down where kittle was wide open and then he overshot Sanders on what would have been a go ahead touchdown.

    The margins are tiny but he came up short, hopefully he can improve with more game time but you only really get the chance to go through these situations in the post season.

    The 3rd failure was on the defensive side. The 49ers gave up a huge play on 3rd and 15 due to a busted coverage. you can't really do that and expect to win superbowls. It just doesn't work that way. Mosely is obviously young and inexperienced so hopefully he learns from this as obviously he is a very good talent.

    Overall you have to say the 49ers were in a position to win but couldn't get it down when it mattered most.

    It's tough to take as I think they really should have won but they collapsed in pretty spectacular fashion on both sides of the ball and didn't maximise their opportunities by staying aggressive which is a lesson Kyle Shanahan really needs to learn.

    I think a little bit of inexperience was on show there, you'd have to say he was outcoached by Reid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Overall you have to say the 49ers were in a position to win but couldn't get it down when it mattered most.
    This probably summed up the game. The 49ers were the better team for ~75% of the SB. I def agree on the coaching, Reid going for it on the 2 x 4th downs showed their intent; Shanahan not going for points (when they were getting the ball after half time) was fearful coaching.

    Tough for the 49ers to improve when picking 31st, and what looks like could be the toughest Div in football next year. But they can take a lot out of this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Two huge mistakes from Kyle this evening from my point of view.

    1. Not taking a timeout and trying to score points before halftime. This is unforgivable. You have a tied game and you essentially give up a possession. That is coaching not to lose and not trusting your team.

    2. Not going for it on 4th and 2 and instead kicking a FG. This might have been worse. We saw the chiefs be aggressive on 4th and short and get rewarded for it. The 49ers kicked their FG and it ended up costing them.

    They were a questionable OPI call away from likely getting 3 points from that first one (questionable based on how often players get away with that and how rarely refs threw flags for anything during the game). Go 3 and out before halftime and you could be easily go in 10-17 down.

    I'm all for being aggressive but those calls got them to being a position of being ahead 20-10 at halfway through the 4th quarter.
    Jimmy went to pieces in the 4th quarter unfortunately. He failed to see wide open receivers in key situations, including one on 3rd down where kittle was wide open and then he overshot Sanders on what would have been a go ahead touchdown.

    He went to pieces but there was some great play from defensive players, like Jones batting down that pass, and Spagnola absolutely went after that tiring OL, blitzing 58% of the time. Jimmy went from being pressured on 1 out of 20 drop backs in the first 3 quarters to 7 of 12 drop backs in the 4th.

    Jimmy hasn't dealt extremely well this year with that much pressure but it is quite out of character for him to collapse completely. I wouldn't be surprised if he was concussed but the NFL, the team, nor the player was ever taking him out in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.

    https://twitter.com/DCBarno/status/1224161619439165441?s=20
    The 3rd failure was on the defensive side. The 49ers gave up a huge play on 3rd and 15 due to a busted coverage. you can't really do that and expect to win superbowls. It just doesn't work that way. Mosely is obviously young and inexperienced so hopefully he learns from this as obviously he is a very good talent.

    I wouldn't be too harsh on Moseley. That is the type of play that completely stresses the rules of that defense and he just gambled wrong. Mahomes is one of the only players in the league who can make that throw, Hill one of the only players in the league who can eat up that kind of ground to run that route, and the Super Bowl is likely the only time they OL isn't flagged for holding Bosa. It was a perfect storm.
    I think a little bit of inexperience was on show there, you'd have to say he was outcoached by Reid.

    You can point to Reid's aggressiveness on 4th down compared to Shanahan's approach but it is a world of difference going for it on 4th and 1 inside your opponents 5 yard line and doing it 4th and 2 on your opponent's 24. It isn't the same decision and it ignores so many other factors that were much more impactful on the game.

    Without so many individual moments in the 4th quarter going right for Chiefs and wrong for the 49ers, we're talking about Reid 'choking' again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭Furryglove



    What a dopey Irish pig, does not deserve to be there, full of sauce no doubt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Furryglove wrote: »
    What a dopey Irish pig, does not deserve to be there, full of sauce no doubt

    Certainly up there with Mary Harney as Irish people who don't deserve to be at a Super Bowl.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    They were a questionable OPI call away from likely getting 3 points from that first one (questionable based on how often players get away with that and how rarely refs threw flags for anything during the game). Go 3 and out before halftime and you could be easily go in 10-17 down.

    I'm all for being aggressive but those calls got them to being a position of being ahead 20-10 at halfway through the 4th quarter.



    He went to pieces but there was some great play from defensive players, like Jones batting down that pass, and Spagnola absolutely went after that tiring OL, blitzing 58% of the time. Jimmy went from being pressured on 1 out of 20 drop backs in the first 3 quarters to 7 of 12 drop backs in the 4th.

    Jimmy hasn't dealt extremely well this year with that much pressure but it is quite out of character for him to collapse completely. I wouldn't be surprised if he was concussed but the NFL, the team, nor the player was ever taking him out in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.

    https://twitter.com/DCBarno/status/1224161619439165441?s=20



    I wouldn't be too harsh on Moseley. That is the type of play that completely stresses the rules of that defense and he just gambled wrong. Mahomes is one of the only players in the league who can make that throw, Hill one of the only players in the league who can eat up that kind of ground to run that route, and the Super Bowl is likely the only time they OL isn't flagged for holding Bosa. It was a perfect storm.



    You can point to Reid's aggressiveness on 4th down compared to Shanahan's approach but it is a world of difference going for it on 4th and 1 inside your opponents 5 yard line and doing it 4th and 2 on your opponent's 24. It isn't the same decision and it ignores so many other factors that were much more impactful on the game.

    Without so many individual moments in the 4th quarter going right for Chiefs and wrong for the 49ers, we're talking about Reid 'choking' again.

    I would also say the defense was tired. They were performing great all game and they finally lost a step or so and got punished. Beating the Chiefs with 20 points was always a big ask for the full game.


    Yeah someone has to lose and they will always be labeled as choking. Seems unfair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I would also say the defense was tired. They were performing great all game and they finally lost a step or so and got punished. Beating the Chiefs with 20 points was always a big ask for the full game.


    Yeah someone has to lose and they will always be labeled as choking. Seems unfair.

    I think you're right on the tiredness being a factor. Despite the 1st team guys being available, SF's DL depth was really impacted by 5 guys going on IR so they didn't have the rotation to keep fresh, especially when dealing with Mahomes moving around and the team blitzing so rarely. I'm sure dealing with the speed of the Chiefs offense tires out the secondary by the time you get to the 4th quarter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Tough for the 49ers to improve when picking 31st, and what looks like could be the toughest Div in football next year. But they can take a lot out of this year.

    Despite the tough division, the rest of their schedule is 2 divisions with a lot of questions (AFC East & NFC East).

    They have a very young team with each player improving as the year went on, a QB that will get an offseason this year to improve rather than spending it in rehab, only 3 starters due for FA (2 that most fans wanted rid of last off-season and another that was traded for mid-season), a very attractive location for FAs (due to team environment, coaching, and the ability to win), and as of now they are keeping 99% of their coaching team together.

    If anything, this season was a year earlier than expected to be challenging so they can definitely improve further.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    This is a great breakdown of the 3rd and 15 play.

    https://twitter.com/nflfilms/status/1225494618487349248?s=21


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    This is a great breakdown of the 3rd and 15 play.

    Well that was a painful watch.

    If it wasn't an NFL video I wouldn't be sure how they could keep a straight face making a 10 minute video analyzing a play with 47 different angles where you can see blatant holding on Bosa and choosing to not bother to mention it once.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,698 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Hard to believe this time last week we still had all the build up to go. Well I don't know how others do it but I'll be doing what I've done for the last couple of years and fir the rest of this week and next I won't be watching every total access and just forget about football(I mean load of the NFL network presenters have gone on holiday anyway)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Hard to believe this time last week we still had all the build up to go. Well I don't know how others do it but I'll be doing what I've done for the last couple of years and fir the rest of this week and next I won't be watching every total access and just forget about football(I mean load of the NFL network presenters have gone on holiday anyway)

    XFL.....!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,276 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Kinda gutless here from shanahan with not taking the TO before 4th down and then two run calls up the middle. Happy to go in tied, don't often see that kind of play calling rewarded.

    That's what I said at the time and I still feel the same a week later (almost) I think it was a big moment in the game and an insight into the mentality.

    Fine margins and I think they can come again, great D and a good offence that can improve.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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