Saorview retune before 4th March 2020

stephenw105

Just after seeing message on my EPG on the saorview channels need to be retuned before 4th March. Looking at Saorview website they say they are changing frequency.

I have the UHF Ariel in the attic which is connected to a DVB-C/T2 tuner on the sat box and all saorview channels are picking up fine. Issue is the retune is not picking up this change, I'm still getting the message on the EPG that I need to rescan before by 3rd March.

Any ideas, maybe I need to point the aerial in the attic to a new mast as I think the mast I'm pointing at might be changed for mobile networks.

Thanks

The Cush

Use the Saorview coverage checker to find the transmitter recommended for your location - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage

Depending on transmitter an aerial change might be required. All existing transmitter masts continue after the old frequencies are switched off including 2 new masts at Drogheda and Wicklow.

SAORVIEW Transmitter and Frequency information - http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

https://www.saorview.ie/en/changes

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

Use the Saorview coverage checker to find the transmitter recommended for your location - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage

Depending on transmitter an aerial change might be required. All existing transmitter masts continue after the old frequencies are switched off including 2 new masts at Drogheda and Wicklow.

SAORVIEW Transmitter and Frequency information - http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

https://www.saorview.ie/en/changes

Thanks, kippure is my recommend mast which is where I'm pointing and it's affected by the change. It says rescan but not working. Drogheda and Carin hill look to be the same distance in the opposite direction so I guess I'll have to see if I can pick up a signal from there but I'm pretty sure I'm out of range as I used a signal finder when I set it up. Saorview has been nothing but a pain since it's inception.

The Cush

stephenw105 wrote: »

Thanks, kippure is my recommend mast which is where I'm pointing and it's affected by the change. It says rescan but not working. Drogheda and Carin hill look to be the same distance in the opposite direction so I guess I'll have to see if I can pick up a signal from there but I'm pretty sure I'm out of range as I used a signal finder when I set it up. Saorview has been nothing but a pain since it's inception.

Similar recent thread relating to Kippure here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058046311

It is possible your aerial is out of group for the new frequencies - UHF 34 & 35 Group A red tip aerial -. Maybe you have a Group C/D aerial which covers the upper UHF band where the old frequencies are located or a Group W wideband aerial with better performance higher up in the UHF band. With the aerial located in the attic/behind slates or roof tiles which can have an attenuating effect on a signal if distant from the transmitter.

How far are you from Kippure according to the coverage checker?

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

Similar recent thread relating to Kippure here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058046311

It is possible your aerial is out of group for the new frequencies - UHF 34 & 35 Group A red tip aerial -. Maybe you have a Group C/D aerial which covers the upper UHF band where the old frequencies are located or a Group W wideband aerial with better performance higher up in the UHF band. With the aerial located in the attic/behind slates or roof tiles which can have an attenuating effect on a signal if distant from the transmitter.

How far are you from Kippure according to the coverage checker?

I'm 51km from Kippure based on the Saorview mast locator

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

Similar recent thread relating to Kippure here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058046311

It is possible your aerial is out of group for the new frequencies - UHF 34 & 35 Group A red tip aerial -. Maybe you have a Group C/D aerial which covers the upper UHF band where the old frequencies are located or a Group W wideband aerial with better performance higher up in the UHF band. With the aerial located in the attic/behind slates or roof tiles which can have an attenuating effect on a signal if distant from the transmitter.

How far are you from Kippure according to the coverage checker?

This is the aerial I'm using at the moment https://www.ebay.ie/itm/UHF-Digital-Terrestrial-Black-Wideband-Aerial-HD-Freeview-Saorview-Irish-TV/162078282446

The Cush

stephenw105 wrote: »

This is the aerial I'm using at the moment https://www.ebay.ie/itm/UHF-Digital-Terrestrial-Black-Wideband-Aerial-HD-Freeview-Saorview-Irish-TV/162078282446

An old full wideband mini log-periodic aerial which now overlaps much of the mobile broadband frequencies, gain wouldn't be the best especially hidden away in an attic.

I would test this Group A contract aerial, in-group for Kippure, in the attic.

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

An old full wideband mini log-periodic aerial which now overlaps much of the mobile broadband frequencies, gain wouldn't be the best especially hidden away in an attic.

I would test this Group A contract aerial, in-group for Kippure, in the attic.

LOL, I was looking at that aerial yesterday to test the Group A signal you mentioned. I'll order it and test it out. I'll come back once I've tested.

Thanks

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

An old full wideband mini log-periodic aerial which now overlaps much of the mobile broadband frequencies, gain wouldn't be the best especially hidden away in an attic.

I would test this Group A contract aerial, in-group for Kippure, in the attic.

Forgot to mention, I'm still getting the Irish channels fine, even after the retune. Its just the EPG has no channel listings just the message that you need to rescan before 3rd March or you will lose your channels, its only on the Saorview stations.

Johnboy1951

stephenw105 wrote: »

Forgot to mention, I'm still getting the Irish channels fine, even after the retune. Its just the EPG has no channel listings just the message that you need to rescan before 3rd March or you will lose your channels, its only on the Saorview stations.

Do manual scan using the new frequencies.

stephenw105

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Do manual scan using the new frequencies.

Mmm that didn't go to well, there's a lot of options with openvix so I probably didn't get settings correct. Tried a few different settings but wouldn't find rte1 and some virgin channels but still giving viewer advisory rescan after manual scan. Thought I lost my favs channel list but found it and channels don't seem to have changed there.

The Cush

stephenw105 wrote: »

Mmm that didn't go to well, there's a lot of options with openvix so I probably didn't get settings correct. Tried a few different settings but wouldn't find rte1 and some virgin channels but still giving viewer advisory rescan after manual scan.

Do it again when you install the Group A aerial.

stephenw105

The Cush wrote: »

Do it again when you install the Group A aerial.

Just checked the TV in the bedroom which is connected directly to the aerial, the Freeview EPG has the channel descriptions and no advisory message. Aerial is ordered so I'll try it when it comes

FRIENDO

Manual tune on the new frequency for Forth Mth, working perfectly with a wideband aerial
Ch 33
Ch 36

stephenw105

FRIENDO wrote: »

Manual tune on the new frequency for Forth Mth, working perfectly with a wideband aerial
Ch 33
Ch 36

I don't think OpenVix lets me change, I'll have to update to latest. I read something about the Saorview freq change on world of satellite fourm, they updated something on VIX. Not sure what was added, i think the new freq but don't know if it's in the latest flash. Kippure new ones are 34-35 and i do remember seeing 54 in the manual scan but it wouldn't change.

vidapura

Newbie question here.
I'm using built-in tuner on my LG tv.

I just did the auto re-tuning.. and .. ended up with exactly the same channels...
And I still have the annoying Viewer Advisory message instead of information on the EPG,

Johnboy1951

vidapura wrote: »

Newbie question here.
I'm using built-in tuner on my LG tv.

I just did the auto re-tuning.. and .. ended up with exactly the same channels...
And I still have the annoying Viewer Advisory message instead of information on the EPG,

I would wonder if the LG needs an update to get the newer frequencies to tune to.

The Cush

vidapura wrote: »

I just did the auto re-tuning.. and .. ended up with exactly the same channels...
And I still have the annoying Viewer Advisory message instead of information on the EPG,

What transmitter is your aerial pointing at - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage

It is possible your aerial is "out of group" for the new frequencies and "not seeing" them and may require an aerial upgrade.

Where is your existing aerial located, outdoors/indoors/attic?

JP Liz V1

stephenw105 wrote: »

Forgot to mention, I'm still getting the Irish channels fine, even after the retune. Its just the EPG has no channel listings just the message that you need to rescan before 3rd March or you will lose your channels, its only on the Saorview stations.

Is everyone getting the rescan message as I am not, certain areas only?

The Cush

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is everyone getting the rescan message as I am not, certain areas only?

Not all transmitters are changing frequencies, check out the coverage map linked to in my previous post

stephenw105

Ok, i was messing with the manual scan settings in Openvix. I found the channel setting and changed to 34 and did a scan, the channels that came up still have advisory message in the EPG, did the same again for channel 35 and found channels with Advisory message. So went back to my favorites to continue watching TV. The advisory message was still there. About an hour later i noticed the EPG had the channel listings, the advisory message is gone. Checking the tune setting on RTE1 its on CH35 now and RTE2 on CH34 etc. Looks to be sorted now

doseire

Sorry for jumping in, but currently I’m operating with a blue tip aerial. Should this be changed to red tip?

The Cush

doseire wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in, but currently I’m operating with a blue tip aerial. Should this be changed to red tip?

There isn't a blue tip aerial that I know of.
Changing the aerial is only required if you're having issues with your current aerial e.g. if your local transmitter's frequencies have moved outside the range of your current aerial.

What transmitter are you receiving from - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage
The map will tell you if your transmitter is changing frequencies,

vidapura

The Cush wrote: »

What transmitter is your aerial pointing at - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage

It is possible your aerial is "out of group" for the new frequencies and "not seeing" them and may require an aerial upgrade.

Where is your existing aerial located, outdoors/indoors/attic?

Thanks for you help @The Cush.

It says I'm pointing at Transmitter:MAGHERA. Polarisation is H.
Aerial is on a pole on gable end of house and pointing south alright...

I haven't looked too close at the aerial.. it was there when we bought the house a coupla years ago...


I'm a bit confused about the channels being quoted in previous messages?
The TV lists them as 801, 804 , etc etc..
How does that map to 48 or whatever...

The Cush

vidapura wrote: »

It says I'm pointing at Transmitter:MAGHERA.
Aerial is on a pole on gable end of house and pointing towards Clare alright...

Only one UHF channel is changing frequency at Maghera so you current aerial should be OK.

A Group K silver tip would now be recommended for Maghera UHF 46 & 48, not a Group A red tip as it would be outside the range for this transmitter.

Johnboy1951

Any aerial except Red or Green tip should work for Maghera ...... ?

doseire

The Cush wrote: »

There isn't a blue tip aerial that I know of.
Changing the aerial is only required if you're having issues with your current aerial e.g. if your local transmitter's frequencies have moved outside the range of your current aerial.

What transmitter are you receiving from - https://www.saorview.ie/en/get/coverage
The map will tell you if your transmitter is changing frequencies,

I’m receiving from kippure, current aerial is 10 years old and has a blue cap tip.

The Cush

vidapura wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the channels being quoted in previous messages?
The TV lists them as 801, 804 , etc etc..
How does that map to 48 or whatever...

48 is the UHF number which corresponds to a frequency the channels are transmitted on.

801, 804 are the channels LCNs (logical channel numbers). The numbers given to channels by the broadcaster or allocated by the receiver as to where they sit within the TV epg/guide.

What receiver are you using? The numbers from 800 upwards are only allocated when the TV/receiver that scans for channels is setup with UK as its country/region. A receiver setup with Ireland as the country will store then in their proper positions from 1, 2, etc., see the attached.

The Cush

doseire wrote: »

I’m receiving from kippure, current aerial is 10 years old and has a blue cap tip.

It doesn't correspond to the colour coding used in these islands so difficult to know what group it is. Change of aerial is only be considered if you are having reception issues with your current aerial.

doseire

The Cush wrote: »

It doesn't correspond to the colour coding used in these islands so difficult to know what group it is. Change of aerial is only be considered if you are having reception issues with your current aerial.

Thank you for the help.

Iderown

Successful.
Location is Bangor North Down (outside official service area)
Group CD aerial with masthead amp - Don't know gain.
TV is set up for UK channels. Saorview are in 800s
Old RF channels 52 and 56 - still broadcasting but with advisories
New RF channels 42 and 45.


A manual re-scan of 42 and 45 did not replace the previously stored data. In order to successfully re-scan to receive 42 and 45, I had to manually delete all the previously stored RTE programmes.

Signal strengths are about same as before (OK) - even with incorrect aerial group and incorrect mast-head amp group. If necessary I will climb up to chimney level and replace the amp.



Side point. When the TV was first set up, it scanned the RF channels from low to high. This caused it to select the low power Bangor relay (group CD) as opposed to the much higher power Divis transmissions in group A. A very poor choice!

Gamayun

Apologies if I'm re-treading ground already covered but I'm a still a little confused.

For me RTÉ1 has the Viewer Advisory warning in the EPG.

According to the Saorview site the change for me is the following:

Channels:
Before Sept: 45, 49
From Sept: 45, 39

Polarization: H
Direction (degrees): South West (207)
Distance: 8 km

Box: Amiko Mini HD, indoor aerial

In the 'Terrestrial Installation' menu all three channels (39,45 and 49) show as strong signals (level 100%, quality 90%).

A TP scan of CH49 (being retired) results in no change.
A TP scan of CH45 results in no change.
A TP scan of CH39 results in fewer channels, with RTÉ1 and VM3 missing

So it looks like channel 45, which works, is remaining and should be fine. So why am I seeing the warning?
Do I have to do anything? Any advice welcome.

Digifriendly

Which transmitter are you receiving Saorview from?

The Cush

Digifriendly wrote: »

Which transmitter are you receiving Saorview from?

Spur Hill, Cork

Gamayun wrote: »

A TP scan of CH49 (being retired) results in no change.
A TP scan of CH45 results in no change.
A TP scan of CH39 results in fewer channels, with RTÉ1 and VM3 missing

So it looks like channel 45, which works, is remaining and should be fine. So why am I seeing the warning?
Do I have to do anything? Any advice welcome.

As the Amiko isn't Saorview approved it's storing the channels from all available frequencies including the one switching off next month, a Saorview receiver would ignore the old frequency and the channels carried.

Can you delete CH49 and do a manual retune of CH39 and CH45 only?

Gamayun

The Cush wrote: »

Can you delete CH49 and do a manual retune of CH39 and CH45 only?

By deleting all and manually rescanning only one CH I see:

CH39 only : Not all Irish channels come through, RTÉ1 and Virgin Media 3 are missing
CH45 only : Perfectly fine, receives all the channels, but RTÉ1 and 2 still have the EPG advisory message

According to the Saorview site CH45 is staying in place for my transmitter, so I don't see why I am seeing the advisory message if I can get all the channels I need from CH45.

I will leave it set with the CH45 channels only for now.

Is it possible that I, and others on this transmitter, are seeing the EPG message in error, and there is nothing that needs to be done?

Johnboy1951

Gamayun wrote: »

By deleting all and manually rescanning only one CH I see:

CH39 only : Not all Irish channels come through, RTÉ1 and Virgin Media 3 are missing
CH45 only : Perfectly fine, receives all the channels, but RTÉ1 and 2 still have the EPG advisory message

According to the Saorview site CH45 is staying in place for my transmitter, so I don't see why I am seeing the advisory message if I can get all the channels I need from CH45.

I will leave it set with the CH45 channels only for now.

Is it possible that I, and others on this transmitter, are seeing the EPG message in error, and there is nothing that needs to be done?

All the stations are not transmitted on one channel/mux/frequency ..... they are divided across two muxes on each transmitter.

To get all stations transmitted you must use two channels/muxes/frequencies.

Maybe you are picking up more than one transmitter?

TAFKAlawhec

The Cush wrote: »

It doesn't correspond to the colour coding used in these islands so difficult to know what group it is. Change of aerial is only be considered if you are having reception issues with your current aerial.

Blue is used as an alternative colour to brown in some cases for Group E UHF aerials. So designed for RF channels E35 to E68 (some very old versions >25 y.o. are E39 to E68).

Antenna

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

All the stations are not transmitted on one channel/mux/frequency ..... they are divided across two muxes on each transmitter.

To get all stations transmitted you must use two channels/muxes/frequencies.

Maybe you are picking up more than one transmitter?

No 39, 45, and 49 are from the same transmitter Spur Hill. 39 is replacing 49 (which has advisory notices) so both 39 and 45 needed for all channels.

If the replacement 39 gives reception trouble it may be due to a legacy Group C/D aerial from analogue (39 well out of group) and need replacement.

Ben Done

Sorry folks, have tried reading a bit, and the Saorview checker, but I still can't figure out what's happening.

Nearest transmitter is Clermont.
Tried to rescan channels but the Irish ones still have a dot at the end of the name..

Would I be right in saying that the aerial will need to be replaced in this case?

We get Freeview channels perfectly here, if that's of any relevance..

Gamayun

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

All the stations are not transmitted on one channel/mux/frequency ..... they are divided across two muxes on each transmitter.

Ah, OK. That makes sense. I must have confused the CH numbers last night, sorry for the confusion.
I just deleted all Irish stations again and scanned CH39 and CH45.
They both find the exact same stations. With RTÉ1, VM3 and TG4 missing.
Those missing stations are on the soon-defunct CH49.

Antenna wrote: »

If the replacement 39 gives reception trouble it may be due to a legacy Group C/D aerial from analogue (39 well out of group) and need replacement.

Both CH39 and CH45 show as: Level 100%, Quality 90%.
Does this mean that my aerial is OK for this channel range (i.e is group ?
Or could it be the case that the aerial is C/D but still registers the signal from CH39 (but cannot get all stations)?

My indoor aerial (One For All SV9360 R01 DVB-T Active VHF/UHF Antenna) gives no indication of it's specs unfortunately.

The Cush

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Blue is used as an alternative colour to brown in some cases for Group E UHF aerials. So designed for RF channels E35 to E68 (some very old versions >25 y.o. are E39 to E68).

Also back in 2012 in a proposal for new aerial groups post-800MHz clearance a new Group H blue tip aerial was on the drawing board, they eventually settled on Group T white tip - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79088372

The Cush

Gamayun wrote: »

I just deleted all Irish stations again and scanned CH39 and CH45.
They both find the exact same stations. With RTÉ1, VM3 and TG4 missing.
Those missing stations are on the soon-defunct CH49.

See here for the services carried on each of the frequency-channels/multiplexes - http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?liste=2&live=15&lang=en . That page show the services carried on the Kippure and Three Rock transmitters but is the same for all transmitters nationwide.

As you can see from the list RTÉ One/VM3 (Mux2) are carried on a different multiplex to TG4 (Mux1). I don't understand why you are missing some channels from each multiplex because when you receive a multiplex all services should be stored by default unless there is an issue with your receiver.

Spur Hill: Mux1 - CH45, new Mux2 - CH39, old Mux2 - CH49

Gamayun wrote: »

Both CH39 and CH45 show as: Level 100%, Quality 90%.
Does this mean that my aerial is OK for this channel range (i.e is group ?
Or could it be the case that the aerial is C/D but still registers the signal from CH39 (but cannot get all stations)?

My indoor aerial (One For All SV9360 R01 DVB-T Active VHF/UHF Antenna) gives no indication of it's specs unfortunately.

Signal levels are perfect for both muxes/frequency-channels so you should have no problem receiving all services from both muxes. That one-for-all is probably wideband, covering the full range of frequencies.

Missing channels could indicate an issue with your receiver.

The Cush

Ben Done wrote: »

Nearest transmitter is Clermont.
Tried to rescan channels but the Irish ones still have a dot at the end of the name..

Would I be right in saying that the aerial will need to be replaced in this case?

We get Freeview channels perfectly here, if that's of any relevance..

Could be your aerial, Clermont Carn (42 & 45) was Group C/D (48 – 68) green tip aerial but has now moved down the frequency band which is now covered by a Group K (21 – 48) silver/grey tip aerial.

http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

Elvis Hammond

Ben Done wrote: »

... Nearest transmitter is Clermont.
Tried to rescan channels but the Irish ones still have a dot at the end of the name..

Would I be right in saying that the aerial will need to be replaced in this case?

An aerial that works for the original Clermont Carn frequencies should be alright for the new ones. Try a manual tune of chs. 42 & 45 (642 & 666 MHz).

Ben Done

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

An aerial that works for the original Clermont Carn frequencies should be alright for the new ones. Try a manual tune of chs. 42 & 45 (642 & 666 MHz).

That seems to have done the trick!


The dots at the end of the channel names have gone, and the advisory message too.


Many thanks for your help, King

Sneachta

Hi all,
I have the Blazer HD400 and the epg for the Irish channels is messed up.

Could someone please advise on how to fix this. I can't find a manual or a video for this box.

The Cush

Sneachta wrote: »

I have the Blazer HD400 and the epg for the Irish channels is messed up.

Could someone please advise on how to fix this. I can't find a manual or a video for this box.

A lot of these cheap receivers have a similar tuning menu structure, is it in anyway like this 4IFE SV-400 or this Blazer HD 705

vidapura

I'm using the LG tv that has a satellite tuner and a freeview tuner.
I set it up with the location set to Uk for Satellite so I get freesat channels and working epg.. and then have location set to ireland for the app store so I get the irish players...

This way I get the saorview 7 day epg and the freesat 7 day epg for the UK channels...

S'how some nice people on boards helped me get set up to have workng EPGs on the tv...
When I get around to affording an enigma box I can take a differnt approach..

The Cush wrote: »

48 is the UHF number which corresponds to a frequency the channels are transmitted on.

801, 804 are the channels LCNs (logical channel numbers). The numbers given to channels by the broadcaster or allocated by the receiver as to where they sit within the TV epg/guide.

What receiver are you using? The numbers from 800 upwards are only allocated when the TV/receiver that scans for channels is setup with UK as its country/region. A receiver setup with Ireland as the country will store then in their proper positions from 1, 2, etc., see the attached.

Digifriendly

Any reason above table doesn't cover the whole UHF frequency span up to C68?

The Cush

Digifriendly wrote: »

Any reason above table doesn't cover the whole UHF frequency span up to C68?

It only covers the existing broadcasting band and from March 4th will be further reduced, UHF21 - UHF 48.

IIRC the original UHF band from the early 1960's Stockholm Agreement was up to UHF82.

copper04

I have a Sony KDl9005 Android TV. Outside UHF aerial pointing correct direction. I can see the Maghera transmission site in the far distance, maybe 40Kms. I have retuned both in normal and full range but still getting advisory message. The new ch's are suppose to be 46 and 48 but after retune they are showing no transmisson on my TV.
I saw a suggestion to do a retune with the aerial disconnected to delete existing ch's. Did that but still same advisory message on all ch's except TNG.
Anyone got any suggestions apart from the aerial which was indoors for years and worked fine so signal strength should not be a problem.
Thanks