Fianna Fail promises 100,000 houses in 5 years

BorneTobyWilde

100,000 immigrants enter the country every year, so I guess the houses are for them ?

Seth Brundle

Fianna Fáil may have just pressed the pause button on the property market

The man who is now favourite to become the State’s next taoiseach has arguably just pressed a giant pause button on the property market. By promising first-time buyers a new special savings incentive allowance (SSIA) to help them save for a deposit, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin has most likely caused a significant segment of buyers – one that accounts for about a third of new home sales – to put their plans on hold for an unspecified period of time.

It may take months to form a new government after polling day, and even more time to pass legislation for the scheme.

...

It is auction politics at its best, and like so many politically-driven interventions in the property market it is likely to result in further uncertainty and unintended consequences.

Yurt2

10000maniacs wrote: »

Still a big downer for most of middle Ireland who had no option but to pay full price for their property, many at peak prices before the crash, and with the maximum stamp duty.

That's the rub, the whole thing is a mess. Runaway house prices are an astonishing drag on the country's purchasing power, saving ability and the general financial stability of the country. But once you've shelled out for your property, the instinct is you want the party to keep going, no matter what the cost the country and the social fabric.

James Brown

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Are the 4eva wasters those who get social housing?

Would you prefer parties to build more affordable houses than social houses?

Those 'wasters' are potentially you, your family and neighbours.

People need to be housed. The conversation is only on which approach is best. Leasing/buying/renting/Hotels/building.

Social housing is designed to house people where income levels fall below being able to buy or rent without state assistance.
Affordable is designed to enable people on higher incomes purchase a home. Both are needed.

The average working couple should be able to buy a house. If not, government is failing IMO.

is_that_so

10000maniacs wrote: »

Still a big downer for most of middle Ireland who had no option but to pay full price for their property, many at peak prices before the crash, and with the maximum stamp duty.

Yeah, but more votes for FF into the future! I think the social element is far too high. It's 5 times our current "homeless" total. Sounds like a bit too much future proofing!

jimmycrackcorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

There will be money saved from the end of HAP , less demand for homeless services , less money to hoteliers.
Not to mention that even if more tax is needed to pay for social housing the recipients of social housing will pay less in rent.

The money paid on HAP and hotels will only pay for a fraction of the number of houses needed to be built.

And when people see they can get free 4eva homes, there will be more added to the queue.

KrustyUCC

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Those 'wasters' are potentially you, your family and neighbours.

People need to be housed. The conversation is only on which approach is best. Leasing/buying/renting/Hotels/building.

Social housing is designed to house people where income levels fall below being able to buy or rent without state assistance.
Affordable is designed to enable people on higher incomes purchase a home. Both are needed.

The average working couple should be able to buy a house. If not, government is failing IMO.

Potentially Yes

I was quoting a previous poster in relation to wasters even though it really grates me to see the likes of Margaret Cash looked after

I wouldn't get a social house but I might qualify for affordable housing depending on the scheme

I'd agree with the 80/20 split as per a previous poster affordable to social

Funny enough the Fianna Fail split is 50/50

"He said 50,000 new social housing properties will be built over five years, a figure shy of the 60,000 planned by both Fine Gael and Sinn Féin"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/were-serious-about-delivering--ff-reveal-election-2020-housing-policy-976866.html

Yurt2

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The money paid on HAP and hotels will only pay for a fraction of the number of houses needed to be built.

And when people see they can get free 4eva homes, there will be more added to the queue.

Be real, I'd say you'd love a 4eva home yourself.

Does anyone know is there a browser plugin where one can block mentions of '4eva home' when browsing boards? It's become one of those things on boards where one might have got a minor chuckle the first or second time it was mentioned, but now just elicits an eye-roll.

rob316

And who is going to build them, there is a chronic shortage of construction workers. My mate runs a plastering business and he will take on anyone who can handle a trowel such is the shortage and high demand for work.

Yurt2

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Potentially Yes

I was quoting a previous poster in relation to wasters even though it really grates me to see the likes of Margaret Cash looked after

I wouldn't get a social house but I might qualify for affordable housing depending on the scheme

I'd agree with the 80/20 split as per a previous poster affordable to social

Funny enough the Fianna Fail split is 50/50

"He said 50,000 new social housing properties will be built over five years, a figure shy of the 60,000 planned by both Fine Gael and Sinn Féin"

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/were-serious-about-delivering--ff-reveal-election-2020-housing-policy-976866.html

So Margret Cash is a waster and not you? An affordable home is essentially a subsidized home. Why do you deserve it when others have to pay full-whack?

10000maniacs

Yurt! wrote: »

That's the rub, the whole thing is a mess. Runaway house prices are an astonishing drag on the country's purchasing power, saving ability and the general financial stability of the country. But once you've shelled out for your property, the instinct is you want the party to keep going, no matter what the cost the country and the social fabric.

No party going on that I can see.
The instinct is to demand value for your €30,000+ in tax contributions every year.

Yurt2

10000maniacs wrote: »

No party going on that I can see.
The instinct is to demand value for your €30,000+ in tax contributions every year.

C'mon now, who doesn't love seeing their property increase in value and their notional wealth rising?

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, sure. 50,000 social homes would cost around €7b to build. Or post elections €0 to build. :rolleyes:

Those building contractors won't get out of bed for less than €300,000 per build.
So it's €15 billion for 50,000 social homes.

10000maniacs

Yurt! wrote: »

C'mon now, who doesn't love seeing their property increase in value and their notional wealth rising?

Not if you have nowhere else to live. Value means nothing if you can't sell it.

KrustyUCC

Yurt! wrote: »

So Margret Cash is a waster and not you? An affordable home is essentially a subsidized home. Why do you deserve it when others have to pay full-whack?

Of course she is a waster

Leaving school at 12, married at 15, first kid at 17, 7 angles by 28, never worked a day in her life, almost 40 convictions including for theft from Penneys and now gets a 4 bedroom house that the vast majority of taxpayers could only ever dream of

Did you see the amount of presents she had for the angles at Christmas? Or the pony she got her son in the back garden?

I said I might qualify for an affordable home. It depends on the scheme

Otherwise I'll have to buy one full-whack as you say yourself

Either way my taxes will go towards the 50,000 social homes FF have promised or 60,000 FG and SF have promised

Yurt2

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Of course she is a waster

Leaving school at 12, married at 15, first kid at 17, 7 angles by 28, never worked a day in her life, almost 40 convictions including for theft from Penneys and now gets a 4 bedroom house that the vast majority of taxpayers could only ever dream of

Did you see the amount of presents she had for the angles at Christmas? Or the pony she got her son in the back garden?

I said I might qualify for an affordable home. It depends on the scheme

Otherwise I'll have to buy one full-whack as you say yourself

Either way my taxes will go towards the 50,000 social homes FF have promised or 60,000 FG and SF have promised

Why do you deserve a subsidy when others have to go to the market and pay full whack? A person (reasonably) could turn around and pull that card on you. You seem to think you're deserving of a discount house when others have to pay what the market demands. Margret Cash is an avatar for your jealousy.


I'm not trolling you, Margret Cash isn't the problem with the Irish property market. If we put her in stocks and threw rotten vegetables at her all day it wouldn't solve the problem. People get driven demented by this woman and can't see the wood for the trees.

Seth Brundle

10000maniacs wrote: »

Those building contractors won't get out of bed for less than €300,000 per build.
So it's €15 billion for 50,000 social homes.

aah now, we can save a fortune if we build on our publicly owned green areas.
Sure how many people actually use the likes of the Phoenix Park?

Yurt2

10000maniacs wrote: »

Not if you have nowhere else to live. Value means nothing if you can't sell it.

You're free to sell your property at any time you want. Whether you get what you feel like it's worth is another question.

KrustyUCC

I will more than likely have to go to the market and pay full whack

Of course that's harder when the LA are buying up properties locally for social housing

Now promising to build or buy more social housing where many have never worked a day in their lives

Might be nice for the government to look after 'those who get up in the morning'

Won't be holding my breath there though

LineOfBeauty

I don't vote FG or FF but this plan is ludicrous and honestly even if they are fairly un-inspiring give me FG any day of the week over FF.

10000maniacs

Yurt! wrote: »

You're free to sell your property at any time you want. Whether you get what you feel like it's worth is another question.

And buy a smaller house for the same price?

Yurt2

10000maniacs wrote: »

And buy a smaller house for the same price?

I'm not a free-marketeer when it comes to housing at all, but I'll borrow a page from their book to make a point, nobody put a gun to your head to make you buy it at that price - that's capitalism baby. You wouldn't be complaining if you could buy JR Ewing's mansion after selling and you were on the right side of the market. Such are the vagaries of the Irish property 'market'.

10000maniacs

Seth Brundle wrote: »

aah now, we can save a fortune if we build on our publicly owned green areas.
Sure how many people actually use the likes of the Phoenix Park?

Can you imagine the shenanigans and outrage if the Phoenix Park was given over to council house development.
The country would die of heart failure,

Yurt2

10000maniacs wrote: »

Can you imagine the shenanigans and outrage if the Phoenix Park was given over to council house development.
The country would die of heart failure,

Does it have to be social housing? Would you object to a 100% affordable development?

10000maniacs

Yurt! wrote: »

Does it have to be social housing? Would you object to a 100% affordable development?

Not me, the whole city would be outraged.
It would be like Bojo doing the same thing to Hyde Park.

Sean.3516

Fianna Fáil under Micheal Martin won’t solve the housing crisis.

Martin wants further govt intervention into the housing market. Rent freezes and rent controls are the stupidest possible way to alleviate a shortage of housing.

The problem is fundamentally a supply problem. Too many people looking for houses. Too few houses available. Therefore prices are high. In order to see a decrease in prices you have to increase the supply to the point where the people selling the houses have to compete with each other in order to do it. Then prices will fall.

The idea that you can increase supply to the necessary levels through social housing is a fantasy. The private sector is essential. You need to be doing everything possible to encourage private investment in housing. Rent controls do precisely the opposite by artificially imposing a cap on the level of profit that can be accrued from the product they’re investing in.

Rent control is designed to do one thing and one thing only: elect politicians.

Yurt2

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Fianna Fáil under Micheal Martin won’t solve the housing crisis.

Martin wants further govt intervention into the housing market. Rent freezes and rent controls are the stupidest possible way to alleviate a shortage of housing.

The problem is fundamentally a supply problem. Too many people looking for houses. Too few houses available. Therefore prices are high. In order to see a decrease in prices you have to increase the supply to the point where the people selling the houses have to compete with each other in order to do it. Then prices will fall.

The idea that you can increase supply to the necessary levels through social housing is a fantasy. The private sector is essential. You need to be doing everything possible to encourage private investment in housing. Rent controls do precisely the opposite by artificially imposing a cap on the level of profit that can be accrued from the product they’re investing in.

Rent control is designed to do one thing and one thing only: elect politicians.

I've posted this in another thread, people like to invoke supply issues because it seems simple. In essence, it's a politicians answer to the problem. The truth is it's more complex than that. Supply is part of the picture, but not as much as many like to make out. The conclusion of the Bank of England (and many many other economists) is that you can stoke supply all you want, it wont put a dent in unaffordable housing as long as interest rates are at rock bottom. Build, build build all you want, but prices will continue to accelerate away from income growth under low rate conditions.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-house-prices-rise-interest-rates-mortgages-bank-of-england-a9258196.html

Solving a crisis that benefits so many is difficult for any government to solve.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but more votes for FF into the future! I think the social element is far too high. It's 5 times our current "homeless" total. Sounds like a bit too much future proofing!

Proves it's not about 'foreva' homes for 'wasters'.
Maybe they are including 'people who like to get up early in the morning' that are left struggling?

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The money paid on HAP and hotels will only pay for a fraction of the number of houses needed to be built.

And when people see they can get free 4eva homes, there will be more added to the queue.

I would much rather folk put up in houses we own than us paying for hotels and leases.

The idea should be you are in a council house paying rent and working towards getting your own place. Not as it is, people talking like being in state subsidised rentals is a luxury. It's supposed to be a basic.
FG unwilling to build social housing is why they are leasing fancy apartments and using hotels. That's on FG and the LA's, and FF for supporting it.