People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

FrancieBrady

Better Than Christ wrote: »

If you search the Dáil records, Jean McConville's name has come up a lot in recent years, usually reduced to little more than a cheap punchline from FG/FF/Labour TDs whenever someone from Sinn Féin criticises them on issues like health service failures, poverty, domestic violence, disability cuts, etc.

You can be sure the stock gallery of victims will be exploited if they continue to rise in the polls.

EmmetSpiceland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can be sure the stock gallery of victims will be exploited if they continue to rise in the polls.

If only they’d stay hidden in the bogs.

FrancieBrady

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

If only they’d stay hidden in the bogs.

It wouldn't matter. Over 3000 people, men women and children dead, one as tragic as the next, but yet we have a totemic few, bandied about cheaply exploited and depended on to do one job - keep the Shinners in check.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It wouldn't matter. Over 3000 people, men women and children dead, one as tragic as the next, but yet we have a totemic few depended on to do one job - keep the Shinners in check.

If the paramilitary wing of SF hadn’t blown kids up, disappeared mothers, and selectively shot men dead based on their religion then SF wouldn’t have to defend those actions. The victimhood is laughable.

Phoebas

Are Sinn Fein supporters now invoking Jean McConville as a shield!

What a topsy turvy world they inhabit.

Whelo79

is_that_so wrote: »

As it is in all parties. It's clearly the type of policy members generally agree with, policies a lot of other people, party and non-party alike, do not share.

Seriously? Of course members of various parties differ on certain policies, that's why there are such things as opposition parties. If everyone agreed on the same thing there would be no need for general elections.

is_that_so

Whelo79 wrote: »

Seriously? Of course members of various parties differ on certain policies, that's why there are such things as opposition parties. If everyone agreed on the same thing there would be no need for general elections.

General policies of SF are not generally favoured outside the party, hence their relative lack of popularity as a party.

Better Than Christ

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The leader, sitting TD, and president of SF at the time was the man who ordered a mother of 10 to be murdered and buried. A man who despite his carefully crafted Twitter persona is a person who lacks any human empathy. I’d consider that noteworthy at the very least.

I wouldn't consider it noteworthy in the context of a question from Mary Lou McDonald about childcare, when Aodhán Ó Riordáin shouted "Jean McConville could've done with child care" across the Dáil. Or when Joan Burton responded to a question about social welfare with "Let me tell the Deputy about welfare... Jean McConville had 12 children..."

What makes it worse is that the same parties spent the 90s trying to get the unionists to talk to Sinn Féin, effectively downplaying their links with the IRA. This was in the immediate aftermath of the Warrington bombing, where a three year old and a twelve year old were murdered. But as soon as Sinn Féin start posing an electoral threat here (and long after the IRA posed any physical threat), they start adopting the language of those same 1990s unionists, like the Good Friday Agreement never happened.

Whelo79

is_that_so wrote: »

General policies of SF are not generally favoured outside the party, hence their relative lack of popularity as a party.

Nonsense. Introducing a rent freeze, building of social and affordable housing, reducing TD's salaries and pensions, returning the free third level education, removing the USC under 30k, increasing the number of Gardai within the force, opening up the number of beds available in hospitals by reducing the number of beds held empty for private medical insurance. To name but a few.

Tell me which of those policies are not popular outside of SF?

The number of seats won in the last general election would suggest their is a growing popularity.

Snow Garden

I never liked Adams and didn't trust him one bit. But I do respect Mary Lou as a capable politician. She was superb in the Repeal-the-8th debates. She made fools our of some of those Iona lunatics. However I think SF is full of dodgy candidates and supporters. I could never vote for them.

At the same time I am always puzzled with how much FFG supporters attack SF with every opportunity. They really fear them. The usual suspects are falling over themselves on Boards to continually highlight their IRA links. It's a bit creepy to be honest. I doubt any one of them have any real empathy for victims like Jean McConville.

In more recent times I will always recall that it was FFG governments that continually ignored massive Garda corruption and tried to bury honest men like Maurice McCabe.

As I keep saying, FF and FG need to merge. SF would remain a smaller fringe party and maybe we could get some more viable alternative parties to emerge.

Phoebas

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it noteworthy in the context of a question from Mary Lou McDonald about childcare, when Aodhán Ó Riordáin shouted "Jean McConville could've done with child care" across the Dáil. Or when Joan Burton responded to a question about social welfare with "Let me tell the Deputy about welfare... Jean McConville had 12 children..."

When you're in a party who is connected to the murder of Jean McConville then it's perfectly reasonable that it would be called out.

To this day Sinn Fein have members of their party sitting in the Dail who have blood on their hands. They can't wash that away with the Good Friday Agreement.

Better Than Christ

Phoebas wrote: »

When you're in a party who is connected to the murder of Jean McConville then it's perfectly reasonable that it would be called out.

To this day Sinn Fein have members of their party sitting in the Dail who have blood on their hands. They can't wash that away with the Good Friday Agreement.

There is nothing reasonable about reducing the name of a murdered mother of ten to a tawdry punchline when you don't want to answer questions on unrelated topics.

endainoz

It's obvious from this thread that there are plenty of people who won't and will never vote for Sinn fein. I doubt those hardened opinions will ever change.

Same crowd said they need to get rid of the old guard, the likes of Adams and McGuinness. The links to the old darks days if you will. I agreed with that for a party that needed to move on, and they have to an extent.

Did that away many peoples opinions about them? I'm not so sure. Mary Lou is a good leader and a great speaker but I think Pearce would be a stronger leadership candidate.

Sinn Fein are still the only decent sized left leaning party in the country.

golfball37

Collins had mothers shot too ffs. If it’s time to move on from that it’s time to move on from pira imo. I would rather sf were scrutinized for their woke populism than something the Ira did a generation ago personally. The Provo’s ain’t standing for election

endainoz

golfball37 wrote: »

Collins had mothers shot too ffs. If it’s time to move on from that it’s time to move on from pira imo. I would rather sf were scrutinized for their woke populism than something the Ira did a generation ago personally. The Provo’s ain’t standing for election

That's the problem though, people can't seem to make the distinction.

Phoebas

But when are they going to move on?

They want others to move on when they still have convicted terrorists in their party, including in the Dail.

endainoz

Phoebas wrote: »

But when are they going to move on?

They want others to move on when they still have convicted terrorists in their party, including in the Dail.

I'm not sure who you are on about but I'm sure you'll be only delighted to bombard me with links about them.

Phoebas

endainoz wrote: »

I'm not sure who you are on about but I'm sure you'll be only delighted to bombard me with links about them.

Not at all.
If you're contributing to a thread about why people are reluctant to vote for Sinn Fein and you don't even know who I'm on about then I'd say no link I could post is going to sway you.

smurgen

Phoebas wrote: »

But when are they going to move on?

They want others to move on when they still have convicted terrorists in their party, including in the Dail.

I'd argue that FG and FF have much more blood on their hands through years of mismanagent of hse. Both historically and to the present day.

Phoebas

smurgen wrote: »

I'd argue that FG and FF have much more blood on their hands through years of mismanagent of hse. Both historically and to the present day.

You might, but it's a terribly weak arguement.

is_that_so

Whelo79 wrote: »

Nonsense. Introducing a rent freeze, building of social and affordable housing, reducing TD's salaries and pensions, returning the free third level education, removing the USC under 30k, increasing the number of Gardai within the force, opening up the number of beds available in hospitals by reducing the number of beds held empty for private medical insurance. To name but a few.

Tell me which of those policies are not popular outside of SF?

The number of seats won in the last general election would suggest their is a growing popularity.

Most of them would invite a return visit by the Troika! Few of them despite being "costed" have any joined up thinking and many cannot be done. But they do play to an audience who will happily vote for them just as long as they tax other people.

Granny15

smurgen wrote: »

I'd argue that FG and FF have much more blood on their hands through years of mismanagent of hse. Both historically and to the present day.

Agreed - how many old people have died on trollies waiting for treatment?

endainoz

Phoebas wrote: »

Not at all.
If you're contributing to a thread about why people are reluctant to vote for Sinn Fein and you don't even know who I'm on about then I'd say no link I could post is going to sway you.

Sway me where exactly?
So no proof then?

Phoebas

endainoz wrote: »

Sway me where exactly?
So no proof then?

Of course there is proof.
You not knowing about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

maccored

is_that_so wrote: »

As it is in all parties. It's clearly the type of policy members generally agree with, policies a lot of other people, party and non-party alike, do not share.

eh? there is a reason why people vote for different parties - difference of opinion. you are saying thats a bad thing now?

is_that_so

maccored wrote: »

eh? there is a reason why people vote for different parties - difference of opinion. you are saying thats a bad thing now?

I haven't said a word about other parties. I was commenting on why people don't choose SF, one reason is their economic policies.

smurgen

Phoebas wrote: »

Of course there is proof.
You not knowing about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Post a link.

Phoebas

smurgen wrote: »

Post a link.

Don't be playing dumb.

Martin Ferris TD - gunrunner. Not seeking re-election thankfully.
Dessie Ellis TD - bomb maker.

Granny15

Phoebas wrote: »

Don't be playing dumb.

Martin Ferris TD - gunrunner. Not seeking re-election thankfully.
Dessie Ellis TD - bomb maker.

I’d be more concerned about Varradkar blinking first in the Brexit negotiations with Johnson

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

Don't be playing dumb.

Martin Ferris TD - gunrunner. Not seeking re-election thankfully.
Dessie Ellis TD - bomb maker.

Currently or during a conflict/war that is over and settled for more than 20 years?