People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

PauloMN

dekbhoy wrote: »

Sinn Fein are no different except it’s just more recent.

It's just that "more recent" involved blowing up innocents and children. Some of us won't forget that bloodied past.

They have some strong candidates, the vast majority of their party have no connection to the Troubles, but it's still there in the background. Maybe in a generations time they would be a viable alternative, by which time they'll be the Labour Party of a few years ago.

SF are not the alternative to FG/FF in my view.

Bishop of hope

cutelad wrote: »

To be honest I'm voting for them this time. Pearse Doherty should be finance minister as he's most competent person in Dail Eireann.
He wants to tax banks who don't pay any tax....
That makes sense to me..... Oh and he's after the insurance industry.... By god people open your eyes...
If your thinking about the troubles well just cast your mind back to both FF and FG past to put things in perspective

Remember that when your bank increases its charges and interest rates to compensate for their taxes.
Sinn fein policy will cost you and me more money indirectly if not through taxes

McMurphy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

100,000 social houses over 5 years is approx 25 billion euro.

I'd be genuinely interested in where we will get this money from?

If SF pull it off and don't bankrupt the country then they could be credible.

https://twitter.com/LNBDublin/status/1221407294849724419?s=19


😂

Jinglejangle69

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LNBDublin/status/1221407294849724419?s=19


😂

??

McMurphy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

??

Oh sorry - obviously the fact you made a comment about the shinners bankrupting the country, and me posting a tweet about Regina Doherty saying something similar, and her having experience about bankruptcy was very confusing altogether.

Snow Garden

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LNBDublin/status/1221407294849724419?s=19


😂

Regina is coming across very very poorly in this election campaign.

ressem

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are these 'emails' published anywhere?

You can take the quotes off that 'emails'
Yes they are published.
https://www.rhiinquiry.org/sites/rhi/files/media-files/D108-Docs-23Oct2018.pdf
POL-10501

Mairtin O'Muilleoir to Ted Howell wrote:

"Would you be content if I were to sign off the business plan on Wednesday afternoon?"

Also in the same PDF:
You can see in one letter January 2017, O'Muilleoir saying that
"
Since taking up office my officials and I have repeatedly pressed the Department of the Economy to product a concrete plan to address the devastating financial impact of the RHI scheme
"

and another email Feb 9th 2016 to Sinn Fein Cookstown about the early closure of the scheme.
"Discussing it now at committee and we will kick down the road a bit but unlikely that we can or will stop."

But at least that's just same old politics like the southern governance.

gormdubhgorm

I was just thinking of the times I did vote SF.

I voted Martin number 1 in the Presidential elections because I felt he was an honest upfront fella. He did not shy away from his IRA past. He also did great work in the Peace Process etc.
So for me it more of a vote for the man rather than the party.

I also voted SF in European elections or council elections again as personality wise or to shake things up/protest vote at a safe distance.

But I would never vote for a SF person for the Dail I just would would not trust them in power.

FrancieBrady

ressem wrote: »

You can take the quotes off that 'emails'
Yes they are published.
https://www.rhiinquiry.org/sites/rhi/files/media-files/D108-Docs-23Oct2018.pdf
POL-10501


Also in the same PDF:
You can see in one letter January 2017, O'Muilleoir saying that
"
Since taking up office my officials and I have repeatedly pressed the Department of the Economy to product a concrete plan to address the devastating financial impact of the RHI scheme
"

and another email Feb 9th 2016 to Sinn Fein Cookstown about the early closure of the scheme.
"Discussing it now at committee and we will kick down the road a bit but unlikely that we can or will stop."

But at least that's just same old politics like the southern governance.

Is that the only thing that indicates the Ra is controlling the party? Seriously?

I see sheep

frillyleaf wrote: »

I’ve heard people saying multiple times that they like certain SF candidates but they won’t vote for them as they are Sinn Fein. Trying to understand why there is such opposite to Sinn Fein? Have looked up online but not getting good info. Surely if someone likes a candidate and what they stand for they should vote for them? Please explain

I like them and I will vote for them, hope this helps.

SteM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and home owners are wealthy, owning a home is a definition of wealth, being homeless, in social housing, or renting, unable to buy a home is a definition of not having wealth.

So someone who is able to pay their mortgage every month - because that's the position of most 'home owners' in this country - is wealthy but a person paying rent every month is not wealthy. What sort of logic is this?

Do you realise there is a middle ground between being wealthy and being poor? You essentially lump people into one category theother. It's the people in the middle ground that would get hurt most if SF gained any sort of power in government imo.

JohnnyFlash

Looks increasingly like SF will be in government with FF after the next election. Time for the hurlers to come down off the ditch and play a bit of county hurling.

endainoz

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish that cash for ash v Irish language act is just a silly game both sides are playing in NI. It is a joke really.
Also if SF did not have an abstentionist policy in Westminster they would have more votes in the ROI. Particularly in light of how they could have changed the game with Brexit.

Also most SF voters demographic in the ROI at the moment are those with links to NI in the ROI - and/or the tattoo wearing working class who enjoy the mystic of being associated with the edgy mystic of SF past.

But SF has tried to widen it's appeal away from this hardcore demographic, trying to get more middle class and educated people to vote for them. It is part of the reason we have seen a femininisation SF.
A softer look less threatening and a move away from the beards of old.

Most of the electorate in the ROI just would not trust SF in government. But SF have a definite strategy trying to make people think they are a viable alternative to FG/FF.
When in reality more would vote for independents/Labour/PBP etc before SF, as SF still has that murky image. It is tarnished and sullied.

It places SF in a difficult position because the more they move away from the murky past. The more they will alienate thier 'hardcore' support.
Plus Mary Lou was clearly made leader to 'Southernise' the party after Gerry's departure. But then there is the problem that the electorate in NI do not identify with a Southern former FF member. Which is why they have to adopt the stronger 'republican' credentials of Michelle O'Neill in NI.

Basically all this causes SF to be all over the place as they are playing too different games -in two different political landscapes.
I figure SF need another 50 years of stability before those in the ROI can take them seriously without fear.

It makes sense that the have a leader for the Republic and for the North. One area where they are a major party and one where they are in opposition.

I think people are in for a very rude awakening particularly with how the younger vote of 18 to 35 will go for Sinn Fein.

And no it won't be just "tattoo wearing working class" as you condacendingly suggested.

Let's go for an example here, today's 25 year old. During the crash years they would have lived through it as a teenager. Older siblings would have been forced to emigrate because of Fianna Fail. Then into their late teens early college years they have to deal with austerity, now they are out of college and unable to afford a house or even to rent one because of Fine Gael who god forbid won't interfere with the market.

So now they are left with a choice: If I want real change from an actual left leaning party where do I look? Or do I just vote the same as my parents did and continue the cycle?

The young vote isn't given enough respect in this country and younger people are more clued in than you think, tattoos or not.

James Brown

ressem wrote: »

More recent then.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-reveals-true-self-again-with-venezuela-infatuation-1.3768126

Spoiler alert every party has a set of unelected members who form policy for a party. Every single one. How do you think Labour are so out of touch? Who do you think decides people you never heard of from elsewhere should represent your area? Who decided Leo over Simon? It's common place.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Looks increasingly like SF will be in government with FF after the next election. Time for the hurlers to come down off the ditch and play a bit of county hurling.

That'll teach them. Spending supporters time and money promoting themselves, but it backfired they might get in... :rolleyes:

Whelo79

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm sure that this has probably been posted already but I haven't the stomach to read through pages of ****e from SF apologists to check. Below is why I and thousands from my tribe will never vote SF - they haven't gone away you know.

1981 for ****s sake! Move on!

Whelo79

piplip87 wrote: »

Apologies

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/mairia-cahill-want-to-see-what-sf-would-do-look-north-38895734.html

The North of Ireland can not and should not be used as an stick to beat SF with due to enforced power sharing. You have 2 parties who fundamentally disagree on many issues and the DUP are backwards donkeys who 'Say No' to everything. Imagine collapsing the government because you didn't want Irish language on road signs etc. SF had made many concessions and drew a line with this one. The DUP were happy to collapse government so as to avoid further investigation into the cash for ash scandal in which one of Arlene's own family members was due to make millions from.

TimeToShine

SF would have a proper shot if it wasn't for Mary Lou, if they had a fresh face representing them and coupled with the work their local TDs have been doing they'd be right up there. As it stands even the painfully smug Varadkar is a more appealing prospect, having her represent us at EU level and beyond would be tragic to say the least.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That'll teach them. Spending supporters time and money promoting themselves, but it backfired they might get in... :rolleyes:

You alright, Matt? Very tetchy these days. It’s only politics, dude. There’s far more to life than it.

All I’m saying is SF have a great chance of being the minority party in Government after the next election. Get to see them implement some of their policies. If it does happen and they have to deal with realpolitik then there will be no one more disappointed than their hardcore supporter.

gormdubhgorm

endainoz wrote: »

It makes sense that the have a leader for the Republic and for the North. One area where they are a major party and one where they are in opposition.

I think people are in for a very rude awakening particularly with how the younger vote of 18 to 35 will go for Sinn Fein.

And no it won't be just "tattoo wearing working class" as you condacendingly suggested.

Let's go for an example here, today's 25 year old. During the crash years they would have lived through it as a teenager. Older siblings would have been forced to emigrate because of Fianna Fail. Then into their late teens early college years they have to deal with austerity, now they are out of college and unable to afford a house or even to rent one because of Fine Gael who god forbid won't interfere with the market.

So now they are left with a choice: If I want real change from an actual left leaning party where do I look? Or do I just vote the same as my parents did and continue the cycle?

The young vote isn't given enough respect in this country and younger people are more clued in than you think, tattoos or not.

The problem for SF is that those youngsters who want change will end up voting for the Greens. As they have a hyper consciousness about the environment these days. It will be interesting to see how people stomach the higher taxes for the environment though.
The only economic policy I have ever heard SF come up with is 'tax the rich' which is exactly the same line that PBP come out with. And to me PBP have have a 'student union' vibe about them. So it is about time SF move on with thier policies and give people something realistic.

Because if SF did go into government they would have to compromise as they would be the minor party in a collation. A basic policy of 'tax the rich' is not really going to cut it is it?

endainoz

TimeToShine wrote: »

SF would have a proper shot if it wasn't for Mary Lou, if they had a fresh face representing them and coupled with the work their local TDs have been doing they'd be right up there. As it stands even the painfully smug Varadkar is a more appealing prospect, having her represent us at EU level and beyond would be tragic to say the least.

Fresh face? She's only been leader a very short time compared to who was there before her...

piplip87

Remember Mary Lou is only with SF because a bigger party refused to select her to run for a council seat.

Another article for all the shinnerbots here trying to justify the murder off innocent people "in the name of Civil Rights" .

Here is an article with one of the key drivers behind the civil rights movement and he says :


They would have you believe that it all happened in the interests of equality. It did not. The IRA were fighting to get the British out of Ireland. It was all about 'Brits out'.

"Republicans have to be contested over October '68, because if you don't, it's going to be difficult to contest the Provo narrative over the rest of the Troubles. It's important as citizens, journalists, writers and academics to get this right and to say that, implicitly at least, Sinn Fein is lying about October 5.

"They should be ashamed of themselves, but I don't suppose for a moment that they are."

He also goes on to say:

Once a secret army present themselves as the representatives of the people, they are telling lies. If you are a secret army you cannot be - and they weren't - accountable to the people in whose name they were carrying out their armed struggles."

Bots are also forgetting the SDLP had the wide support of the Nationalist people throughout the troubles. They where a party that believed in peace so your assertion the SF/IRA took up arms for civil rights is not only wrong, it's completely revisionist

endainoz

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The problem for SF is that those youngsters who want change will end up voting for the Greens. As they have a hyper consciousness about the environment these days. It will be interesting to see how people stomach the higher taxes for the environment though.
The only economic policy I have ever heard SF come up with is 'tax the rich' which is exactly the same line that PBP come out with. And to me PBP have have a 'student union' vibe about them. So it is about time SF move on with thier policies and give people something realistic.

Because if SF did go into government they would have to compromise as they would be the minor party in a collation. A basic policy of 'tax the rich' is not really going to cut it is it?

Again you are generalising there, greens will do well yes but they are still a tiny party compared to Sinn Fein.

They have more policies than just 'tax the rich' (which I agree with by the way)

Their alternative budget from last October is an interesting read.

omega man

SF won’t want to go into government for fear of having to deliver and make difficult unpopular decisions. Their ambition is to be the main opposition party.

I hear a lot about Pearse Doherty’s ability but what qualifications does he hold to be a finance minister? It’s very different to any other portfolio for obvious reasons...

Others also say give them a chance sure but they've shown their cards over years of inaction in NI.
Aside from that how do we know their historical IRA links are no longer in place? Can we trust them in government with access to state security in a position of policing and judicial influence...?

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Remember Mary Lou is only with SF because a bigger party refused to select her to run for a council seat.

Another article for all the shinnerbots here trying to justify the murder off innocent people "in the name of Civil Rights" .

Here is an article with one of the key drivers behind the civil rights movement and he says :


They would have you believe that it all happened in the interests of equality. It did not. The IRA were fighting to get the British out of Ireland. It was all about 'Brits out'.

"Republicans have to be contested over October '68, because if you don't, it's going to be difficult to contest the Provo narrative over the rest of the Troubles. It's important as citizens, journalists, writers and academics to get this right and to say that, implicitly at least, Sinn Fein is lying about October 5.

"They should be ashamed of themselves, but I don't suppose for a moment that they are."

He also goes on to say:

Once a secret army present themselves as the representatives of the people, they are telling lies. If you are a secret army you cannot be - and they weren't - accountable to the people in whose name they were carrying out their armed struggles."

Bots are also forgetting the SDLP had the wide support of the Nationalist people throughout the troubles. They where a party that believed in peace so your assertion the SF/IRA took up arms for civil rights is not only wrong, it's completely revisionist

The SDLP 'believed' that the solution lay in appeasing Unionism and remaining unequal until the British decided to be democrats. The GFA was not in fact 'Sunningdale for slow learners', that was a bon mot penned by a bitter and defeated leader of the SDLP. The GFA was much more than Sunningdale in content and in who was involved in it.
The people of NI rejected the SDLP democratically and they are still bitter about that.

Whelo79

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

100,000 social houses over 5 years is approx 25 billion euro.

I'd be genuinely interested in where we will get this money from?

If SF pull it off and don't bankrupt the country then they could be credible.

From the money the government currently wastes to buy properties from private developers at near full market value and pays rent to private landlords at current rental market rates.

SF's figure is also drastically more realistic than the 200,000 over the same period that FF and FG have suddenly promised.

https://extra.ie/2020/01/25/news/politics/fine-gael-fianna-fail-housing?fbclid=IwAR2ARShHMCu-DMIOJoIHU8xGJzJVrhOgEvvEnpESxuojchq1LPyU14x9sZo

EmmetSpiceland

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You alright, Matt? Very tetchy these days. It’s only politics, dude. There’s far more to life than it.

All I’m saying is SF have a great chance of being the minority party in Government after the next election. Get to see them implement some of their policies. If it does happen and they have to deal with realpolitik then there will be no one more disappointed than their hardcore supporter.

Leave him be, J. Sure our “Matt” isn’t even a SF voter!!

gormdubhgorm

endainoz wrote: »

Again you are generalising there, greens will do well yes but they are still a tiny party compared to Sinn Fein.

They have more policies than just 'tax the rich' (which I agree with by the way)

Their alternative budget from last October is an interesting read.

Fair enough but they never seem to elaborate on it when talking about taxes etc.
Last week I was talking to a SF supporter. But he said something to me that made me have to stop myself and think 'jayus he is serious'.
He said that most of those in the Dail were landlords who were part of the problem. Comparing that to the homeless in the area he lived in Dublin etc.

I did not say anything as it shocked me not because of what he said. But because of the implication that all landlords = greedy and immoral.
The real ironic part for me was there was another SF supporter (from Donegal) standing behind this fella and I know he has numerous properties.
I kept my trap shut for the sake of a quiet night - was in pub.

There are plenty of decent landlords around many without large amount of properties. Maybe one extra as well as thier own home as a investment for thier future. Which is a lot of people - two thirds of all landords.

Yet SF seem to play on the unemployed poor us v them fear in order to get votes. The landlords are all greedy etc. To me that is only the same narrowmindedness that the PBP come out with.
It is not going to help SF be taken seriously and move on to the next level - and get more of the middle class vote.

ressem

Whelo79 wrote: »

From the money the government currently wastes to buy properties from private developers at near full market value and pays rent to private landlords at current rental market rates.

SF's figure is also drastically more realistic than the 200,000 over the same period that FF and FG have suddenly promised.

https://extra.ie/2020/01/25/news/politics/fine-gael-fianna-fail-housing?fbclid=IwAR2ARShHMCu-DMIOJoIHU8xGJzJVrhOgEvvEnpESxuojchq1LPyU14x9sZo

You're mixing up 2 numbers.

FG's plan for social housing builds in 2020 is 7,736, and 8907 in 2021
https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/social-housing/local-authority-housing-scheme-statistics

Your article says economists think that the combination of private market + social getting to 40,000 new build is restricted by worker availability.
This year it was 31,000.

So to get to 100,000 social housing builds on top of the existing private market build would be it least equal to FF/FG's numbers.
Or the private market build would have to be discouraged to free up the builders.

Or get the lads from China in after they've finished building a 1200 capacity hospital in 3 weeks to cope with the virus.
There's a qn for your local candidate. "If that virus arrives in Ireland, what is your party willing to sign off on regarding quarantine zones and infrastructure "

Edgware

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was just thinking of the times I did vote SF.

I voted Martin number 1 in the Presidential elections because I felt he was an honest upfront fella. He did not shy away from his IRA past. He also did great work in the Peace Process etc.
So for me it more of a vote for the man rather than the party.

I also voted SF in European elections or council elections again as personality wise or to shake things up/protest vote at a safe distance.

But I would never vote for a SF person for the Dail I just would would not trust them in power.

Don't be under any illusions. If SF get into government in the Republic they will do exactly as the rest. Get the head into the trough, renege on their far fetched policies and sell out on their support