People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

Quin_Dub

maccored wrote: »

I think you need to educate yourself a bit on the subject of SF and the kind of people who vote for them. Dont really think reading the Indo headlines (or wherever you got that tosh from) is good enough.

There's info on that specific point in the detailed version of the latest Red C poll here

Granny15

Blazer wrote: »

You’re the one who’s completely clueless and exactly the prime target for SF and their policies.
Hard work? Does it only apply to manual labourers? How about a project manager who’s doing 60-80 hours a week ensuring he delivers a key project on time??
How about a doctor or surgeon who’s working 80 hour weeks thanks to the lack of investment and waste in the HSE ? I suppose they’re not “hard” workers because they’re not out in the cold and rain working or serving pints in their local.
The reason people on welfare or low income get xmas bonuses, council houses for life etc is precisely of these people who you claim are not hard work.
They’re the ones paying all the taxes.
I could easily hit over 100k in my job role but it would involve me making sacrifices and making myself available 24/7/365 which I’m not prepared to do for my family.
But you go ahead and insult these people because you’re stupid enough to believe everyone over 100k is fiddling the books.
Clown.

People on 100K + already have their reward. To tax them more means they have to go from having 4 children to 3 children or that their wife has to God forbid go out into the work force. What about the couples who are 40K each and have a child in child care. And don't tell me they are the ones who hate the tax the rich parties. Tax people on 100K or more for free childcare is a policy that would benefit these people. But people like you want to grab hold of every little advance you have made at the expense of less aggressive depraved people who aren't out for themselves at the expense of others. Its the people at the top who are greedy and the poor with less advantage need to be looked after. You probably think your position in life isn't because of your post code growing up but let me tell you it most certainly is. Throw you into the slums and see if you can fight your way out with hard work. It's a lot more complicated than that.

FTA69

Blazer wrote: »

They’re claiming they’ll reverse the pension age here while up North they’ve approved the increase. Of course it’s all the brits faults.

All SF are good for is opposition and their quite happy with that. Mary Lou and the likes get to live the champagne lifestyle while paying tokenism to unification to keep the republicans happy and promising everything to the welfare class knowing most of them won’t bother their holes voting anyway because Saturday is the weekend and it’s time to get wasted on cider and weed not wasting time going voting.

Well on your first point, put simply, it is the Brits' fault. The north doesn't have any tax and spend powers, it is basically reliant on a budget allocated by the British Government which is presiding over a program of austerity and cuts. Like it or not, Sinn Féin could do very little in that regard. The whole Stormont system is a joke in general, basically a glorified county council implementing Tory austerity.

As for the champagne lifestyle, Sinn Féin are probably some of the better politicians in that regard. I mean who are you comparing them to, Fianna Fáil and the developer tents or Fine Gael which is packed full of landlords and the like? The other parties are far more "champagne" in general (remember Pee Flynn?) but something tells me you'll have had no bother voting for one of those parties at some stage.

To be honest your post just comes across as a desire to engage in stereotypes about the great unwashed being lazy thickos. Most of my family are voting for SF; out of those people is a nurse, my mam working in the office of a cheese factory, a hairdresser and two retired farmers. All of whom worked hard all their lives, were never on the scratch and are thoroughly sick sh*t of FF and FG propping each other up.

hmmm

Granny15 wrote: »

But people like you want to grab hold of every little advance you have made at the expense of less aggressive depraved people who aren't out for themselves at the expense of others.

People on 100k who have worked hard all their lives are not "aggressive depraved people", and mine would be a view shared by most outside the SF/PBP bubble. That you'd even use words like that says a lot.

The top of this thread asks "why people won't vote for SF" - there's your answer.

Blazer

hmmm wrote: »

People on 100k who have worked hard all their lives are not "aggressive depraved people", and mine would be a view shared by most outside the SF/PBP bubble. That you'd even use words like that says a lot.

The top of this thread asks "why people won't vote for SF" - there's your answer.

Exactly. Those sort of people don’t want to work for it. They want to be given it thinking everyone earning over 100k is swimming in it and sniffing coke out of 50 dollar bills at their massive penthouse parties every weekend.

McMurphy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There's info on that specific point in the detailed version of the latest Red C poll here

The stats for the housing/rental was surprising.

FrancieBrady

This constant moan about the 'welfare class' as if all your taxes were going to support them.
2/3rds of your taxes goes on stuff you use and benefit from yourself. Health spending, education, transport and infrastructure and hefty chunk towards our debt burden and we know who ran that up primarily.
I am a taxpayer and I want and believe in a welfare state.
I don't let a minority of abusers and spongers put me off that idea, no more than I let greedy, lazy and corrupt employers and elites put me off making money as a self employed man.

efanton

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This constant moan about the 'welfare class' as if all your taxes were going to support them.
2/3rds of your taxes goes on stuff you use and benefit from yourself. Health spending, education, transport and infrastructure and hefty chunk towards our debt burden and we know who ran that up primarily.
I am a taxpayer and I want and believe in a welfare state.
I don't let a minority of abusers and spongers put me off that idea, no more than I let greedy, lazy and corrupt employers and elites put me off making money as a self employed man.

To add to your comment, there are people at both ends of the income spectrum that abuse the welfare and tax systems.

Every year we see lists and lists of people in the papers caught for either not paying their tax at all or under declaring, amounting to millions of euro in total.

in 2017 the total lost in welfare fraud was 38.4 million.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fsocial-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438

In 2019 the loss to the state through under declaring or tax evasion by the self-employed was very much the same
https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh/files/fairness_pb2019_taxevasion.pdf


Add to that the cost of employers falsely declaring employees as self-employed costs the state an estimated 250 million
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0916/1076240-fraud-welfare/

Now do you really want to continue the argument that it is the least well off that are screwing the state?
and subsequently you and every other taxpayer are having to pay for that in taxation

James Brown

Blazer wrote: »

Exactly. Those sort of people don’t want to work for it. They want to be given it thinking everyone earning over 100k is swimming in it and sniffing coke out of 50 dollar bills at their massive penthouse parties every weekend.

But those sort of people are tax paying workers.
Can you clarify what you meant by 'welfare class'?

James Brown

efanton wrote: »

To add to your comment, there are people at both ends of the income spectrum that abuse the welfare and tax systems.

Every year we see lists and lists of people in the papers caught for either not paying their tax at all or under declaring, amounting to millions of euro in total.

in 2017 the total lost in welfare fraud was 38.4 million.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fsocial-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438

In 2019 the loss to the state through under declaring or tax evasion by the self-employed was very much the same
https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh/files/fairness_pb2019_taxevasion.pdf


Add to that the cost of employers falsely declaring employees as self-employed costs the state an estimated 250 million
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0916/1076240-fraud-welfare/

Now do you really want to continue the argument that it is the least well off that are screwing the state?
and subsequently you and every other taxpayer are having to pay for that in taxation

FG going 9 years without paying a specific tax. Only making an effort after they were caught.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406

With vulture funds taxed lightly, who exactly is looking to support those who are not paying their fair share is the question.

AIB not having to pay any tax on profits for 30 years is a good one.

briany

efanton wrote: »

To add to your comment, there are people at both ends of the income spectrum that abuse the welfare and tax systems.

Every year we see lists and lists of people in the papers caught for either not paying their tax at all or under declaring, amounting to millions of euro in total.

in 2017 the total lost in welfare fraud was 38.4 million.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fsocial-welfare-fraud-totalled-38-4m-in-2017-report-shows-1.3707438

In 2019 the loss to the state through under declaring or tax evasion by the self-employed was very much the same
https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh/files/fairness_pb2019_taxevasion.pdf


Add to that the cost of employers falsely declaring employees as self-employed costs the state an estimated 250 million
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0916/1076240-fraud-welfare/

Now do you really want to continue the argument that it is the least well off that are screwing the state?
and subsequently you and every other taxpayer are having to pay for that in taxation

But Margaret Cash!

To be serious, though, people do seem to wholly lose perspective when it comes to who is really costing the state money. I think most people would readily agree that it is not the fault of a couple of hundred dole lifers that the country had to implement austerity, but are at a loss as to how to tackle that issue. The people putting the hurt on at that end are just too big and powerful. Therefore, we must instead kick down or across at an issue that we do feel like we could possibly change, i.e. scroungers.

FrancieBrady

briany wrote: »

But Margaret Cash!

To be serious, though, people do seem to wholly lose perspective when it comes to who is really costing the state money. I think most people would readily agree that it is not the fault of a couple of hundred dole lifers that the country had to implement austerity, but are at a loss as to how to tackle that issue. The people putting the hurt on at that end are just too big and powerful. Therefore, we must instead kick down or across at an issue that we do feel like we could possibly change, i.e. scroungers.

I am watching a number of properties here being rebuilt under the much vaunted Rebuilding Ireland scheme and I can see why a hospital ends up costing what it is.
They are complete and utter money pits and overspend.
Nobody using their own money would over spend the way they are. Reports and consultations costing multiples of thousands. Cranes and machinery you would only see on huge commercial jobs to rebuild what are basically town houses. Much more has been done for much less and all within regulations.

And it is the same right through our systems. Waste and overspend. If we had government ministers tasked with cutting that out we would solve a lot of problems elsewhere.

marieholmfan

Back to the subject at hand.
I'm hearing people (not in North Kildare) saying they'll hold their nose and vote Sinn Fein.

These people would have been Labour or FF voters in the main and they wouldn't regard the arme struggle as glorious.

Blaze420

briany wrote: »

But Margaret Cash!

To be serious, though, people do seem to wholly lose perspective when it comes to who is really costing the state money. I think most people would readily agree that it is not the fault of a couple of hundred dole lifers that the country had to implement austerity, but are at a loss as to how to tackle that issue. The people putting the hurt on at that end are just too big and powerful. Therefore, we must instead kick down or across at an issue that we do feel like we could possibly change, i.e. scroungers.

i don’t think there is any issue with perspective when vermin like her are pulling in 55k+ a year in benefits without lifting a finger, for laying on their back popping out future parasites that will grow up to be just like them. That’s the class of people SF are catering to and they can **** off.

FrancieBrady

Blaze420 wrote: »

i don’t think there is any issue with perspective when vermin like her are pulling in 55k+ a year in benefits without lifting a finger, for laying on their back popping out future parasites that will grow up to be just like them. That’s the class of people SF are catering to and they can **** off.

em...hate to tell you this, but she is getting that because of the systems run by FG and FF and the others they have shared governing with.

Granny15

Blaze420 wrote: »

i don’t think there is any issue with perspective when vermin like her are pulling in 55k+ a year in benefits without lifting a finger, for laying on their back popping out future parasites that will grow up to be just like them. That’s the class of people SF are catering to and they can **** off.

No it’s the class of people FG are in cahoots with. People at the top of the pile who “delegate”. It’s the people at the bottom of the food chain do all the work yet you would swear that your defiance on this fact made you right. Your defiance makes you laughable

efanton

Blaze420 wrote: »

i don’t think there is any issue with perspective when vermin like her are pulling in 55k+ a year in benefits without lifting a finger, for laying on their back popping out future parasites that will grow up to be just like them. That’s the class of people SF are catering to and they can **** off.

I find it hard to believe that anyone on social welfare would be getting 55k+ a year, but I would be happy for you to prove me wrong.

I have no problem with anyone claiming benefit if they are entitled to it, I find it hard to believe though that an amount like that would be paid.
Social welfare should provide for a modest standard of living for those that cant provide for themselves. That's its purpose. If its found that excessive payments are being made surely that is a problem of government and the minister responsible.

But why are you claiming it a SF problem. Its obviously not a Sinn Fein problem because they are not in government and the ones making payment to this woman.
If you are correct about the €55k what are FG doing about it?

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

em...hate to tell you this, but she is getting that because of the systems run by FG and FF and the others they have shared governing with.

I genuinely lol'd at this Francie, what an answer

Blaze420

FrancieBrady wrote: »

em...hate to tell you this, but she is getting that because of the systems run by FG and FF and the others they have shared governing with.

Yeah and SF want to shake the magic money tree to build free houses for people exactly like her? Where is the party calling for an end to welfare increases, or capping child benefit at 2 kids? There is none and SF in particular are simply saying **** these people want to hear.

Blaze420

Granny15 wrote: »

No it’s the class of people FG are in cahoots with. People at the top of the pile who “delegate”. It’s the people at the bottom of the food chain do all the work yet you would swear that your defiance on this fact made you right. Your defiance makes you laughable

What are you ****ting on about?? Tell me what the difference in taxation is between minimum wage and someone earning 40k+??? Bottom of the chain my bollix

McMurphy

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah and SF want to shake the magic money tree to build free houses for people exactly like her? Where is the party calling for an end to welfare increases, or capping child benefit at 2 kids? There is none and SF in particular are simply saying **** these people want to hear.

Which party is calling for this?

Take your time.

jimmycrackcorm

maccored wrote: »

I think you need to educate yourself a bit on the subject of SF and the kind of people who vote for them. Dont really think reading the Indo headlines (or wherever you got that tosh from) is good enough.

My Facebook feed is quite telling about the type of people who support SF. They're the only ones posting political crap. It's very cult like behaviour, and as I am familiar with their personal circumstances, it's clear that there the ones who wine be finding through their tax all the goodies that SF are promising.

Blaze420

efanton wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that anyone on social welfare would be getting 55k+ a year, but I would be happy for you to prove me wrong.

I have no problem with anyone claiming benefit if they are entitled to it, I find it hard to believe though that an amount like that would be paid.
Social welfare should provide for a modest standard of living for those that cant provide for themselves. That's its purpose. If its found that excessive payments are being made surely that is a problem of government and the minister responsible.

But why are you claiming it a SF problem. Its obviously not a Sinn Fein problem because they are not in government and the ones making payment to this woman.
If you are correct about the €55k what are FG doing about it?

https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrpaddymckee/status/1050095981834973191?lang=en

There’s the breakdown, and apologies it’s only 51k not 55....

James Brown

Blaze420 wrote: »

i don’t think there is any issue with perspective when vermin like her are pulling in 55k+ a year in benefits without lifting a finger, for laying on their back popping out future parasites that will grow up to be just like them. That’s the class of people SF are catering to and they can **** off.

Sorry, Fine Gael, (backed by FF) are literally catering for her.
Did you read over before you posted?

Blaze420

McMurphy wrote: »

Which party is calling for this?

Take your time.

Nobody, that’s the problem.

Edgware

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But those sort of people are tax paying workers.
Can you clarify what you meant by 'welfare class'?

Probably the Celtic jersey wearing gob****es who objected to foreign games in Croke Park

marieholmfan

Blaze420 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrpaddymckee/status/1050095981834973191?lang=en

There’s the breakdown, and apologies it’s only 51k not 55....

Bizarre that Paddy McKee is unaware that One of the most important jobs that any woman can do is rear her children .

James Brown

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah and SF want to shake the magic money tree to build free houses for people exactly like her? Where is the party calling for an end to welfare increases, or capping child benefit at 2 kids? There is none and SF in particular are simply saying **** these people want to hear.

You're just waffling now.
FG/FF are paying for her house, hotels and leasing apartments for 25 years in some cases. But go on, SF something...

Blaze420

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're just waffling now.
FG/FF are paying for her house, hotels and leasing apartments for 25 years in some cases. But go on, SF something...

You’re not getting my point - why should it continue as is? What is SF going to do about it? From what I’ve seen they want to further enable these scumbags to sit on their holes all day - they have nothing to offer people who have worked hard over the years.

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Probably the Celtic jersey wearing gob****es who objected to foreign games in Croke Park

Is this the same people don't like SF immigration policies but vote SF?