People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

windy shepard henderson

efanton wrote: »

Ah Facebook. the authoritative source of all information.

Are you really serious? Most sensible people ditched that pile of ****e years ago, full of gossip and innuendo, constantly trying to tell you what to buy and usually its rubbish anyhow or definitely not the deal of the century.

also your Facebook feed will be unique to you. Facebook knows what you like, and knows you prejudices and caters specifically to them. You rarely never see stuff in your feed that you have no interest in or is totally impartial and objective.

Seriously, using Facebook as a source in what should be a informed and reason debate really takes the biscuit.

to be fair you are right ,but it dose'nt stop people believing everything they see or want to see

there are many people who probably know little about politics think SF can get an overall majority and get into power if we all just voted for them

the fact is SF dont even have enough candidates running in the election to realistically pick up any more then 20 odd votes over 25 seats would be a really good election for them

they cant get into power on there own , but people somehow think they can by reading stuff on Facebook and the like , some people see it as gospel in terms of news updates

RandomName2

McMurphy wrote: »

I think you might have missed the point.

Poster complains of welfare recipients being on 55k a year apparently, free gaffs all round all the result of previous FF/FG policies and procedures (or FFG for short) goes on to say no party is calling for a reduction/cap but it's the shinners fault regardless.

Good running commentary though, I read it in the style of a John Motson voice, and imagined you wearing a sheepskin jacket typing it out.

No party is going to tackle it according to the poster. That was clear. He also intimated that SF was going to make it worse, if you happen to see it as a problem in the first place. This is a reasonable assertion based upon their professed positions that nobody even seemed interested in countering in itself. I think the bigger issue is how SF would intend funding any of its lofty endeavors, and frankly it gets a free pass because it has never been in an executive position such that its performance can be meaningfully evaluated.

I was wearing sheepskin jocks.

efanton

Blaze420 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrpaddymckee/status/1050095981834973191?lang=en

There’s the breakdown, and apologies it’s only 51k not 55....

thanks for that. To be honest I never really followed that story.

Most of those payments seem normal but I was surprised to see a One-Parent Family allowance of €223 per week. Never heard of it before, not having used the social welfare system with regards to children myself. That's one hell of a lot of money on top of her other payments.

I notice the HAP housing cost of €15.9k a year.
Do you not realise that it would be far cheaper for the state to provide a social home for her and claim back the typically small rent payments from her.
Her council rent would be 1/5 of all income (including social welfare payments that are not paid on behalf of a child) so If I have read it right that would be 1/5 of €888 working out at €177.6 per month. Over 25 year the state would claw back €22,200

15k that a year over 25 years costs the state €397,500 (i believe that is the period governments use to amortise housing programs)


the average price paid for a social housing unit was €158,200 nationally, while this rises to €223,951 in Dublin
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-state-spends-12bn-on-housing-even-though-building-is-cheaper-38125430.html


the cost of a social home would cost €160k less. A saving of over €7000 a year to which you can also add the €888 council rent.
Plus the state still has the home when she doesn't require it, where as with HAP every single cent results in no long term benefit to the state

Yet too many people are complaining about a massive social and affordable home program.

The numbers speak for themselves, in this particular instance the state is going to pay over €182,000 more for this single household over a 25 year period.

Multiply that by the number of other single parent households in the country (approx 200,000) and suddenly you see the state spending €144 million extra
each year housing people in HAP schemes rather than building homes.

I fail to see how a FG supporter can argue that social housing should not be built on a massive scale when there are hundreds of millions each year to be saved.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's the age old question. I dont know.
FG are a disaster and intentionally so. Their policies are the problem.
I'll give pretty much anyone else a shot personally.

The Irish electorate obviously do not agree with you. They are happy with the middle ground politics of either FF/FG. All other parties just seem to be on the outside pissing in or will end up in support of one or other of them. In doing so they will have to moderate thier manifesto promises as the junior party.
Happened Labour/Greens/Independents etc.
Plus SF have the added handicaps of having to play different strategies in two different jurisdictions. Glorifying republicanism in NI, while trying to distance itself from an unsavory past to get votes in the ROI.

SF are a bit of a bi-polar party in my view which is ironic considering that many youngsters in Ireland view mental health as a crucial issue. Would another mainstream party want to get into bed with a bi-polar party to the detriment of thier own support base in the ROI?
I doubt it. I think it would be for a few decades yet until SF sorts itself out and has a leader that both NI and the ROI can identify with. Also SF will have to moderate it's extreme leftist idealism if they have any hope of ever being part of government and taken seriously.

windy shepard henderson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The Irish electorate obviously do not agree with you. They are happy with the middle ground politics of either FF/FG. All other parties just seem to be on the outside pissing in or will end up in support of one or other of them. In doing so they will have to moderate thier manifesto promises as the junior party.
Happened Labour/Greens/Independents etc.
Plus SF have the added handicaps of having to play different strategies in two different jurisdictions. Glorifying republicanism in NI, while trying to distance itself from an unsavory past to get votes in the ROI.

SF are a bit of a bi-polar party in my view which is ironic considering that many youngsters in Ireland view mental health as a crucial issue. Would another mainstream party want to get into bed with a bi-polar party to the detriment of thier own support base in the ROI?
I doubt it would be for a few decades yet until SF sorts itself out and has a leader that both NI and the ROI can identify with. Also SF will have to moderate it's extreme leftist idealism if they have any hope of ever being part of government and taken seriously.

they dont want to go into power with anyone , its way easier make noise in the opposition plus most parties get screwed over that go in to goverment with one of the big two

the reason FG or FF are never challenged is mainly a rural ireland thing , they both have staunch support from supporters regardless the state of the economy or the country , its mainly the urban areas that usually look for a change in parties or candidates

James Brown

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

they dont want to go into power with anyone , its way easier make noise in the opposition plus most parties get screwed over that go in to goverment with one of the big two

the reason FG or FF are never challenged is mainly a rural ireland thing , they both have staunch support from supporters regardless the state of the economy or the country , its mainly the urban areas that usually look for a change in parties or candidates

Nobody told Mary Lou.

efanton wrote: »

.....

I fail to see how a FG supporter can argue that social housing should not be built on a massive scale when there are hundreds of millions each year to be saved.

The goal is making profits for business not serving society's interests.

windy shepard henderson

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nobody told Mary Lou.

.

to be fair she is not going to say any different now , SF know themselves that if they went into government with one of the big 2 they could come out looking like labour or the greens did in the past

Mr.burgess

See what i dont get about these or any other party why support them no matter what ? Its like if yall picked a team a football team and try get one up on the other , there all bags of dirt

Mr.burgess

Berties_Horse wrote: »

My grandmother dictates how I vote. How dare you question my integrity.

Thats what its like its something to give ya something to look forward to , i personally dont trust any of them there all snakes using fools to get them voted in so they can get a lovely salary.

Mr.burgess

Berties_Horse wrote: »

As long as they're not snakes on a plane, I can live with that.

Lou would of loved that though

windy shepard henderson

Mr.burgess wrote: »

See what i dont get about these or any other party why support them no matter what ? Its like if yall picked a team a football team and try get one up on the other , there all bags of dirt

one mate of mine was a staunch FG in secondary school ffs....about 3 years before he was old enough to vote or know what politics was his parents drilled it into him

it basically is the very same as supporting a football team , the whole idea of having a vote is to make your own decision not someone else's

Mr.burgess

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

one mate of mine was a staunch FG in secondary school ffs....about 3 years before he was old enough to vote or know what politics was his parents drilled it into him

it basically is the very same as supporting a football team , the whole idea of having a vote is to make your own decision not someone else's

Thats my opinion too mate they are point scoring like mongos they bring it into every discussion ,but hey my party is better than yours because we got this and that ,sad ejits.

Mr.burgess

Mr.burgess wrote: »

Thats my opinion too mate they are point scoring like mongos they bring it into every discussion ,but hey my party is better than yours because we got this and that ,sad ejits.

Thats what they say mate

facehugger99

It'd be almost worth SF getting into power just to see the confused look on their acolytes faces as they wonder where all their free money is.

Almost.

smurgen

facehugger99 wrote: »

It'd be almost worth SF getting into power just to see the confused look on their acolytes faces as they wonder where all their free money is.

Almost.

Well not having to write the likes of BAM blank cheques should help

Bishop of hope

A rare insight in to the real SF here from a former party member and TD.
I think this confirms what a lot of people would have thought.
If true this could do SF some harm, be interesting to see if this gains any traction, it would certainly stop me if I had any intention of voting SF.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A rare insight in to the real SF here from a former party member and TD.
I think this confirms what a lot of people would have thought.
If true this could do SF some harm, be interesting to see if this gains any traction, it would certainly stop me if I had any intention of voting SF.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

Dear lord. Is this the best the Indo have? A former member clutching at surviving as a new party, 'spilling' the beans, to get attention when his High Court bid to get it failed?

It confirms what a lot of people who wouldn't vote for SF in a one party race 'would have thought'.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dear lord. Is this the best the Indo have? A former member clutching at surviving as a new party, 'spilling' the beans, to get attention when his High Court bid to get it failed?

It confirms what a lot of people who wouldn't vote for SF in a one party race 'would have thought'.

I knew you'd be along Francie, are you saying he is lying?

Phoebas

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A rare insight in to the real SF here from a former party member and TD.
I think this confirms what a lot of people would have thought.
If true this could do SF some harm, be interesting to see if this gains any traction, it would certainly stop me if I had any intention of voting SF.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

This kind of stuff normally comes from FF or FG so it's interesting that it's now coming from a former senior TD for the party.

I'm not sure how much difference this will make - it's not like people aren't already aware of the unusual way the party is run.

It'll be dismissed by SF supporters obviously. - it's the Indo; it's a disgruntled former member etc - the same old playbook.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I knew you'd be along Francie, are you saying he is lying?

If you are that politically naive not to know what a newspaper that has a legendary track record on these scare stories, is at here then I despair for you. I really do.

Another allegation, another day. Another litany of detail but not an email or single shred of hard evidence to back it up.
Sure, it will convince the already convinced. Let them at it.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you are that politically naive not to know what a newspaper that has a legendary track record on these scare stories, is at here then I despair for you. I really do.

Another allegation, another day. Another litany of detail but not an email or single shred of hard evidence to back it up.
Sure, it will convince the already convinced. Let them at it.

They quote former SF TD, they aren't making it up, it's Toibin that's making the allegation and you didn't answer my question, I'll ask again, is he lying?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They quote former SF TD, they aren't making it up, it's Toibin that's making the allegation and you didn't answer my question, I'll ask again, is he lying?

I don't know if he is or not, as I am not a member.

I spent some time wondering what policy or actions of this party were dictated by the IRA and I can't see one that is any threat to me or anyone else for that matter.

I am aware, knowing how other parties work that there are people in the background of them all who direct policy and strategy.

And finally I am aware of where P. Tobin is politically, he is fighting for survival and some impact. Perfect fodder for a newspaper hell bent on it's anti republican/SF agenda.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know if he is or not, as I am not a member.

I spent some time wondering what policy or actions of this party were dictated by the IRA and I can't see one that is any threat to me or anyone else for that matter.

I am aware, knowing how other parties work that there are people in the background of them all who direct policy and strategy.

And finally I am aware of where P. Tobin is politically, he is fighting for survival and some impact. Perfect fodder for a newspaper hell bent on it's anti republican/SF agenda.

The fact that we have had a high number of defections from the party with claims of bullying would give it some credibility imo.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The fact that we have had a high number of defections from the party with claims of bullying would give it some credibility imo.

What SF policy do you think are benefiting the IRA?

What is their agenda here? Because it seems to me that SF are heading into the mainstream across the island rather than away from it. Are the IRA 'dictating' the softening of the attitude to the SCC for instance?

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What SF policy do you think are benefiting the IRA?

What is their agenda here? Because it seems to me that SF are heading into the mainstream across the island rather than away from it. Are the IRA 'dictating' the softening of the attitude to the SCC for instance?

The IRA? Where did you get that from?
But I suppose its a logical conclusion if there is outside influence.
But don't get carried away, I wasnt thinking men in hoods with guns at their side.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The IRA? Where did you get that from?
But I suppose its a logical conclusion if there is outside influence.
But don't get carried away, I wasnt thinking men in hoods with guns at their side.

If not the IRA. explain to me how it is different to how other parties behave.

FF have a 77 member Ard Comhairle (17 of whom are elected) who shape and direct party policy according to MLM on this morning's radio.

mattser

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The IRA? Where did you get that from?
But I suppose its a logical conclusion if there is outside influence.
But don't get carried away, I wasnt thinking men in hoods with guns at their side.

Newstalk have picked up the Indo virus this morning. It's spreading.

Granny15

facehugger99 wrote: »

It'd be almost worth SF getting into power just to see the confused look on their acolytes faces as they wonder where all their free money is.

Almost.

Free money? Like the $80bn daily the Fed pumps into the Repo market in the States? All to go on bad debts/trades the day before? Up the yard.

McMurphy

mattser wrote: »

Newstalk have picked up the Indo virus this morning. It's spreading.

The Indo and Newstalk listeners/readers are of a particular age who will already have their minds made up ref the shinners, so are essentially preaching to the converted.

Recent poll data has shown that the SF surge is coming from the younger generation, those struggling with rent, or trying to buy a home.

They're essentially beating s worn out drum the young voters won't be tapping their feet to.

windy shepard henderson

McMurphy wrote: »

The Indo and Newstalk listeners/readers are of a particular age who will already have their minds made up ref the shinners, so are essentially preaching to the converted.

Recent poll data has shown that the SF surge is coming from the younger generation, those struggling with rent, or trying to buy a home.

They're essentially beating s worn out drum the young voters won't be tapping their feet to.

Going back nearly 20 years ago SF had the younger vote, but bad election strategies are the reason they have made little gains, this election is an example, they only ran 40 candidates, some of whom have not performed well in local elections or were 3rd or 4th choice down the pecking order