People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

McMurphy

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Going back nearly 20 years ago SF had the younger vote, but bad election strategies are the reason they have made little gains, this election is an example, they only ran 40 candidates, some of whom have not performed well in local elections or were 3rd or 4th choice down the pecking order

Little gains?

How many seats had they in the Dail 20 years ago?

windy shepard henderson

McMurphy wrote: »

Little gains?

How many seats had they in the Dail 20 years ago?

Sorry my bad they were nowhere in 2002 but I think they could have done alot more in this campaign in terms of running extra candidates

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know if he is or not, as I am not a member.

You don't know whether he is lying, yet you go after him in your previous post?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dear lord. Is this the best the Indo have? A former member clutching at surviving as a new party, 'spilling' the beans, to get attention when his High Court bid to get it failed?

It confirms what a lot of people who wouldn't vote for SF in a one party race 'would have thought'.

Come off the fence, Francie, if you are going to call out a politician, honestly call him out.

facehugger99

McMurphy wrote: »

Recent poll data has shown that the SF surge is coming from the younger generation,

The big problem for SF is that these lads grow up, get a bit of sense on how the world works and then realise SF are taking bollox on almost every issue.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't know whether he is lying, yet you go after him in your previous post?



Come off the fence, Francie, if you are going to call out a politician, honestly call him out.

I called out the Indo for publishing this unverified allegation. They have a track record on this sort of thing with this particular party.
I 'suspect' Toibin is lying for attention.

Do I 'know' he is lying? No, I don't.

McMurphy

facehugger99 wrote: »

The big problem for SF is that these lads grow up, get a bit of sense on how the world works and then realise SF are taking bollox on almost every issue.

Unless we stop reproducing, there will always be a young electorate in the country.


Always.

And the older generation who will vote FF or FG will be dying out.


So that's a problem how exactly?

marieholmfan

We all know that Toibin is telling the truth about the level of 'party line' acceptance demanded in Sinn Fein.

Is there a summary of the events around his leaving / being expelled from the party?

Edgware

McMurphy wrote: »

Little gains?

How many seats had they in the Dail 20 years ago?

On that rate of progress they should have a majority around 2090.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I called out the Indo for publishing this unverified allegation. They have a track record on this sort of thing with this particular party.
I 'suspect' Toibin is lying for attention.

Do I 'know' he is lying? No, I don't.

The Indo have verified it through Tobin. Heard him on Newstalk and he doubled down on it, they read out a response from Sinn Fein who declined to go on the programme.

From the newspaper's point of view, he is a credible source, if you are saying that he is not a liar, then that gives further credence to the story.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The Indo have verified it through Tobin. Heard him on Newstalk and he doubled down on it, they read out a response from Sinn Fein who declined to go on the programme.

From the newspaper's point of view, he is a credible source, if you are saying that he is not a liar, then that gives further credence to the story.

Where did I say he 'was not a liar'?

I said I don't know if he is or not. May be too subtle a distinction for a reader of the Indo.

Given Toibin's needs, (attention and the survival of his breakaway party) he has the same motives as all those who have made as yet unproven allegations.

The Indo has no discernment or journalistic integrity when approached by these 'sources'.

facehugger99

Edgware wrote: »

On that rate of progress they should have a majority around 2090.

Which is the current timeframe for a UI too.

That'll be handy.

EmmetSpiceland

The dogs in the street know that Sinn Fein is “controlled” from a small office that’s not based in the Republic.

Granny15

facehugger99 wrote: »

The big problem for SF is that these lads grow up, get a bit of sense on how the world works and then realise SF are taking bollox on almost every issue.

Are you so sure they are talking bollox? I asked you a question above about the magic money tree the right wing Fed creates and you didn't answer it. You return to saying everything SF believes in is make believe when in fact its the most extreme right wingers that create money out of nothing for the Debt markets. Why isn't that created money going into infrastructure? Why because right wingers are greedy do nothings who layabout an office staring into a computer screen and call it "work". Feel free to respond when you can defend your own argument.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say he 'was not a liar'?

I said I don't know if he is or not. May be too subtle a distinction for a reader of the Indo.

Given Toibin's needs, (attention and the survival of his breakaway party) he has the same motives as all those who have made as yet unproven allegations.

The Indo has no discernment or journalistic integrity when approached by these 'sources'.

There is more credence to what Tobin is saying than anything that has ever been said on here about Denis O'Brien and Fine Gael which is pure conspiracy theory stuff.

piplip87

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/general-election-2020-leaders-debate-our-experts-fact-check-their-claims-38891654.html

Surprise surprise, MaryLou caught out on a couple of occasions.

Saying the banks do not pay tax was a blatant lie. SF love the sound bytes. Banks do not pay tax....... Yet the bank levy and dividends are far more useful to the tax payer than the 12.5%......

20% of Garda stations don't have internet...... It's actually only 8% but that doesn't stop Mary Lou from making numbers up on the spot.

Poor Marylou maybe if she had have got that nomination to run for FF all them years ago she could have been a minister in the next Dail

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There is more credence to what Tobin is saying than anything that has ever been said on here about Denis O'Brien and Fine Gael which is pure conspiracy theory stuff.

Ah, delighted you have found a new champion from ex-SF ranks. How many is that now?

marieholmfan

blanch152 wrote: »

There is more credence to what Tobin is saying than anything that has ever been said on here about Denis O'Brien and Fine Gael which is pure conspiracy theory stuff.

Fine Gael is the Dinny party.

blanch152

Granny15 wrote: »

Are you so sure they are talking bollox? I asked you a question above about the magic money tree the right wing Fed creates and you didn't answer it. You return to saying everything SF believes in is make believe when in fact its the most extreme right wingers that create money out of nothing for the Debt markets. Why isn't that created money going into infrastructure? Why because right wingers are greedy do nothings who layabout an office staring into a computer screen and call it "work". Feel free to respond when you can defend your own argument.

Explain again to us how this magic money tree that the Fed creates will work in Ireland for Sinn Fein. I can't see anything about it in their manifesto.

Now, if you did have a sensible party that was suggesting that the mandate of the ECB was changed to buy up Government infrastructure bonds, then you would at least have an idea that was worth discussing, but you would immediately run into the question of how a Syrizia-lite party like Sinn Fein could persuade anyone in the EU to change a policy.

facehugger99

Granny15 wrote: »

Feel free to respond when you can defend your own argument.

TBH, I couldn't be arsed responding to most of your posts.

I have a limited amount of time and patience.

blanch152

piplip87 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/general-election-2020-leaders-debate-our-experts-fact-check-their-claims-38891654.html

Surprise surprise, MaryLou caught out on a couple of occasions.

Saying the banks do not pay tax was a blatant lie. SF love the sound bytes. Banks do not pay tax....... Yet the bank levy and dividends are far more useful to the tax payer than the 12.5%......

20% of Garda stations don't have internet...... It's actually only 8% but that doesn't stop Mary Lou from making numbers up on the spot.

Poor Marylou maybe if she had have got that nomination to run for FF all them years ago she could have been a minister in the next Dail

Sinn Fein lie all the time. That is known.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I say he 'was not a liar'?

I said I don't know if he is or not. May be too subtle a distinction for a reader of the Indo.

Given Toibin's needs, (attention and the survival of his breakaway party) he has the same motives as all those who have made as yet unproven allegations.

The Indo has no discernment or journalistic integrity when approached by these 'sources'.

Given that he was a member of SF and you aren't, which of you would you say has the best insight of how SF is run?

Granny15

blanch152 wrote: »

Explain again to us how this magic money tree that the Fed creates will work in Ireland for Sinn Fein. I can't see anything about it in their manifesto.

Now, if you did have a sensible party that was suggesting that the mandate of the ECB was changed to buy up Government infrastructure bonds, then you would at least have an idea that was worth discussing, but you would immediately run into the question of how a Syrizia-lite party like Sinn Fein could persuade anyone in the EU to change a policy.

I'm not saying it will work for Ireland. What I'm saying is that the "right" also has a magic money tree. He seems to think this is the sole preserve of Sinn Fein but I have proven in the States that is not the case. And don't waffle about the Fed being non political - it is an ATM for bankers.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Indo has no discernment or journalistic integrity when approached by these 'sources'.

I wonder why were quotation marks put around the word 'sources'?

I would have thought an ex-front bench member of the Party qualified as a source.

piplip87

I see the attacks on Tobin are following the familiar pattern whenever somebody appears that could harm SF, the Aul seige mentality kicks in...... Examples below:

Austin Stack only wants answers for his father's murder because he is a FF member.....

His Father was a bad man who beat up prisoners so it was a justified killing.....

Rape victim Maria Cahill is a dissident, the only reason she speaks out is to hurt the party.....

Gene McConville was a rat.....

The media are against SF...... Biased RTE......

All these people who come out with alligations cannot be wrong.....

It is not a normal party....

jimgoose

facehugger99 wrote: »

I wonder why were quotation marks put around the word 'sources'?

I would have thought an ex-front bench member of the Party qualified as a source.

I'm taking this episode as sufficient proof, as if I needed it, that the buck-toothed, jug-eared pavees that pass for politicians in SF are mere puppets of subversive Marxist thugs.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Given that he was a member of SF and you aren't, which of you would you say has the best insight of how SF is run?

I counterpoint all allegations like this with how others behave. The vast majority of SF are happy to remain within the party and accept it's rules. This includes lots and lots of very outspoken people who don't appear to me to be controlled by anybody.

That is my assessment. When I see some actual proof of this 'control' for nefarious, sinister reasons, I will change my mind.
I don't. I see a party like any other, with an executive (named and open) who decide on policy and strategy. Toibin, like Lucinda Creighton couldn't live with that policy and strategy and left, of his own free will, unhampered and unmolested. Exactly like Creighton did and many others from other parties have.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I counterpoint all allegations like this with how others behave. The vast majority of SF are happy to remain within the party and accept it's rules. This includes lots and lots of very outspoken people who don't appear to me to be controlled by anybody.

That is my assessment. When I see some actual proof of this 'control' for nefarious, sinister reasons, I will change my mind.
I don't. I see a party like any other, with an executive (named and open) who decide on policy and strategy. Toibin, like Lucinda Creighton couldn't live with that policy and strategy and left, of his own free will, unhampered and unmolested. Exactly like Creighton did and many others from other parties have.

I get it, you need to see the holes in his hands and feet.

golfball37

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I counterpoint all allegations like this with how others behave. The vast majority of SF are happy to remain within the party and accept it's rules. This includes lots and lots of very outspoken people who don't appear to me to be controlled by anybody.

That is my assessment. When I see some actual proof of this 'control' for nefarious, sinister reasons, I will change my mind.
I don't. I see a party like any other, with an executive (named and open) who decide on policy and strategy. Toibin, like Lucinda Creighton couldn't live with that policy and strategy and left, of his own free will, unhampered and unmolested. Exactly like Creighton did and many others from other parties have.

Peadar Tobin was threatened about vacating his dail office when he left the party, in a very scary way. His things had been removed without his consent also. That is not acceptable.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I counterpoint all allegations like this with how others behave.

Yeah, it's called deflection.

road_high

golfball37 wrote: »

Peadar Tobin was threatened about vacating his dail office when he left the party, in a very scary way. His things had been removed without his consent also. That is not acceptable.

Does that surprise anyhow? I mean come on!
Need only glance at the rabid mob of SF supporters on online platforms to see the level of aggression and complete lack of temperance. Little wonder that the upper echelons of SF would be any different in practice