People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yeah, it's called deflection.

Deflection from what?

Peadar has made an allegation which funnily enough he didn't see any point or imperative to make when he left the party.
He suddenly makes it during an election campaign when he and his party have been overlooked in a televised debate.

Well call me a cynic, but that requires me to be careful when assessing the claim.
Do I think MLM, Eoin O'Broin, Pearse Doherty, Louise O'Reilly show evidence of being controlled, sorry, no I see no evidence of that at all. Do I see evidence of people towing the party line like FGer's and FFer's tow the party line, yes, I do.

Yourself and blanch's etc methodology: Does this confirm my opinion of SF = yes. Therefore it is true.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I counterpoint all allegations like this with how others behave. The vast majority of SF are happy to remain within the party and accept it's rules. This includes lots and lots of very outspoken people who don't appear to me to be controlled by anybody.

That is my assessment. When I see some actual proof of this 'control' for nefarious, sinister reasons, I will change my mind.
I don't. I see a party like any other, with an executive (named and open) who decide on policy and strategy. Toibin, like Lucinda Creighton couldn't live with that policy and strategy and left, of his own free will, unhampered and unmolested. Exactly like Creighton did and many others from other parties have.

Your vantage point from the outside is no different to mine, hence your views and opinions on the issue are as credible as mine.

Tobin was a senior party TD, which gives his views much more credibility than either yours or mine. What he says, for example, on the John O'Dowd electoral issue, rings true. Ditto on the unelected staff. We have seen similar complaints coming from so many councillors and other members who have left Sinn Fein. There is a pattern established that has a certain credibility that leaves serious question marks. Pretending that you can't see them is not a response.

blanch152

Granny15 wrote: »

I'm not saying it will work for Ireland. What I'm saying is that the "right" also has a magic money tree. He seems to think this is the sole preserve of Sinn Fein but I have proven in the States that is not the case. And don't waffle about the Fed being non political - it is an ATM for bankers.

You haven't proven anything about the States. You have made a politically motivated interpretation of certain actions of a particular central bank that operates under very different rules to the ECB. Extending that example to Ireland requires an awful lot more.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

There is more credence to what Tobin is saying than anything that has ever been said on here about Denis O'Brien and Fine Gael which is pure conspiracy theory stuff.

Yeah, 2 enquiries and most likely a third one ref the broadband plan is conspiracy theory.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Deflection from what?

Peadar has made an allegation which funnily enough he didn't see any point or imperative to make when he left the party.
He suddenly makes it during an election campaign when he and his party have been overlooked in a televised debate.

Well call me a cynic, but that requires me to be careful when assessing the claim.
Do I think MLM, Eoin O'Broin, Pearse Doherty, Louise O'Reilly show evidence of being controlled, sorry, no I see no evidence of that at all. Do I see evidence of people towing the party line like FGer's and FFer's tow the party line, yes, I do.

Yourself and blanch's etc methodology: Does this confirm my opinion of SF = yes. Therefore it is true.

Let me see, should we ask Councillors Noeleen Reilly, Sorcha O’Neill or Eugene Greenan whether they agree with Toibin's analysis? Maybe Senator Trevor O'Clochartaigh could be asked to contribute? Then there is councillor Séamus Morris, a candidate in the last general election, who said he had been expelled by the local organisation for “uncomradely behaviour’.

When we see the likes of Maria Bailey removed from a ticket, or Verona Murphy rejected, or Luke Perry expelled, there are clear reasons and clear responses that explain what happened. However, when the secret Sinn Fein cabal moves against one of their own, there is no public guillotine, just the secret disposal of the body.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Your vantage point from the outside is no different to mine, hence your views and opinions on the issue are as credible as mine.

Tobin was a senior party TD, which gives his views much more credibility than either yours or mine. What he says, for example, on the John O'Dowd electoral issue, rings true. Ditto on the unelected staff. We have seen similar complaints coming from so many councillors and other members who have left Sinn Fein. There is a pattern established that has a certain credibility that leaves serious question marks. Pretending that you can't see them is not a response.

So what policy do you think is being dictated by others?

Who is saying stuff that they don't believe or under duress?

Leo was fully behind Flanagan on the RIC thing, but when it went pearshaped he blamed the policy solely on Flanagan.
Was Leo being 'dictated' to originally? Was he under duress?

Unless you can point to people literally having a gun put to their heads, there really is very little to see here that is any different to other parties IMO.
Again, as MLM pointed out this AM, only 17 of the 77 member FF Executive are elected. FG are controlled by a similar Executive council.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Let me see, should we ask Councillors Noeleen Reilly, Sorcha O’Neill or Eugene Greenan whether they agree with Toibin's analysis? Maybe Senator Trevor O'Clochartaigh could be asked to contribute? Then there is councillor Séamus Morris, a candidate in the last general election, who said he had been expelled by the local organisation for “uncomradely behaviour’.

When we see the likes of Maria Bailey removed from a ticket, or Verona Murphy rejected, or Luke Perry expelled, there are clear reasons and clear responses that explain what happened. However, when the secret Sinn Fein cabal moves against one of their own, there is no public guillotine, just the secret disposal of the body.

Dear me. There we have it. :rolleyes:

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dear me. There we have it. :rolleyes:

There is form there in disappearing bodies, Francis. Even though they just left Paul Quinn on the road. The ‘good republicans’ involved wanted to send a message I suppose.

markodaly

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Given that he was a member of SF and you aren't, which of you would you say has the best insight of how SF is run?

LOL, Game, Set and Match there!

efanton

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A rare insight in to the real SF here from a former party member and TD.
I think this confirms what a lot of people would have thought.
If true this could do SF some harm, be interesting to see if this gains any traction, it would certainly stop me if I had any intention of voting SF.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

Which is obviously very biased being that he has left the party and formed his own, and now he is trying to grab some of the SF vote or take some of it with him. Remember he was perfectly happy with SF policy and would defend it or
promote it in the media. He did have an issue with the abortion issue and that's fair enough, no one should be forced to throw away their religious beliefs, but all he had to do was simply abstain from voting to keep his conscience clean. His actions had zero impact on policy or the eventual vote, and unfortuately his party will end up being the left wing version of Renua and where is that party now.

Much of what he says is the same in every party and happens in every party.
In the brexit campaign in the UK you would think that Dominic Cummings was a minister of some kind. He is nothing of the sort, just an adviser that was allowed to have far too much say.
We have the same problem in the EU, very few policies indeed come from member countries or the MEP's they elected. Most polices are created by bureaucrats.

maccored

efanton wrote: »

Which is obviously very biased being that he has left the party and formed his own, and now he is trying to grab some of the SF vote or take some of it with him. Remember he was perfectly happy with SF policy and would defend it or
promote it in the media. He did have an issue with the abortion issue and that's fair enough, no one should be forced to throw away their religious beliefs, but all he had to do was simply abstain from voting to keep his conscience clean. His actions had zero impact on policy or the eventual vote, and unfortuately his party will end up being the left wing version of Renua and where is that party now.

Much of what he says is the same in every party and happens in every party.
In the brexit campaign in the UK you would think that Dominic Cummings was a minister of some kind. He is nothing of the sort, just an adviser that was allowed to have far too much say.
We have the same problem in the EU, very few policies indeed come from member countries or the MEP's they elected. Most polices are created by bureaucrats.

It gives blanch the chance though to talk about the party that he loves to hate.

FrancieBrady

efanton wrote: »

Which is obviously very biased being that he has left the party and formed his own, and now he is trying to grab some of the SF vote or take some of it with him. Remember he was perfectly happy with SF policy and would defend it or
promote it in the media. He did have an issue with the abortion issue and that's fair enough, no one should be forced to throw away their religious beliefs, but all he had to do was simply abstain from voting to keep his conscience clean. His actions had zero impact on policy or the eventual vote, and unfortuately his party will end up being the left wing version of Renua and where is that party now.

Much of what he says is the same in every party and happens in every party.
In the brexit campaign in the UK you would think that Dominic Cummings was a minister of some kind. He is nothing of the sort, just an adviser that was allowed to have far too much say.
We have the same problem in the EU, very few policies indeed come from member countries or the MEP's they elected. Most polices are created by bureaucrats.

It shows just how desperate these people are. No more 'whiff of cordite' stuff to throw because Adams is gone. Now it is something else.

ELM327

My issue with SF is not due to the provo days, it's their socialist nonsense.

mynamejeff

shinners taking a pounding here ,

reckon they will try to get the thread shut down asap :-)

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It shows just how desperate these people are. No more 'whiff of cordite' stuff to throw because Adams is gone. Now it is something else.

We'll always have Dessie Ellis.

McMurphy

Seems RTE has footage of the Ard Chomhairle having a meeting in Sligo all along.



https://twitter.com/JoeEDwyer/status/1222049026243166209?s=19

endainoz

mynamejeff wrote: »

shinners taking a pounding here ,

reckon they will try to get the thread shut down asap :-)

Seems the latest opinion polls think otherwise.....

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

We'll always have Dessie Ellis.

It no longer works Phoebas. Keep flogging that horse, it isn't getting up.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It no longer works Phoebas. Keep flogging that horse, it isn't getting up.

Will this election be your first time voting for SF, Francis?

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Will this election be your first time voting for SF, Francis?

In a GE...yes. I have previously voted for them in local elections and for Carty in the EU election.

golfball37

Phoebas wrote: »

We'll always have Dessie Ellis.

The Advent of the smart TV finished poor auld Dessie

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It no longer works Phoebas. Keep flogging that horse, it isn't getting up.

That's almost exactly what I imagine Dessie said after the Hyde Park bombing.

JohnnyFlash

Phoebas wrote: »

That's almost exactly what I imagine Dessie said after the Hyde Park bombing.

That’s pretty good, dude.

blanch152

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Will this election be your first time voting for SF, Francis?

To be fair to Francie, he has consistently maintained a view of 99% defence of everything that Sinn Fein do and say, without ever voting for them.

I haven't seen them yet, but we usually get a crop of posters telling us every election time that they have voted for FF and FG since the year dot but are now getting around to voting for SF for the first time because of the mess that FF and FG have made.

There was one the last time out (can't remember his name) who was claiming to have voted in three previous elections, yet had been posting in the Leaving Cert forum the previous year. There was another one called For Reals - he even became a mod in the old Cafe for a while, that welcome thread made for hilarious reading - who was full of conspiracy theories of government pay-offs etc. and so obviously making it up about past and future political allegiance that he couldn't be taken seriously. He must have posted about 40 times about how he had always voted for FF and FG yet was now being forced to consider SF yet you couldn't find a single time he had ever said anything positive about either party. He's probably off somewhere like reddit or politics.ie this time around peddling the same fantasy.

marieholmfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It no longer works Phoebas. Keep flogging that horse, it isn't getting up.

bit like Shergar

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

To be fair to Francie, he has consistently maintained a view of 99% defence of everything that Sinn Fein do and say, without ever voting for them.

Sigh, this one again.

You will find no defence by me of SF economic policy on these boards. Economic policy kinda amounts to more than 1% of what a party says or does. I also never defended their stance on other social policy nor on their reasons for staying out of government.

You love this 'bot hunter' role you have appointed yourself to, but please tell the truth.

FrancieBrady

marieholmfan wrote: »

bit like Shergar

I'm sure that poor auld nag will get a run out yet!

marieholmfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sigh, this one again.

You will find no defence by me of SF economic policy on these boards. Economic policy kinda amounts to more than 1% of what a party says or does. I also never defended their stance on other social policy nor on their reasons for staying out of government.

You love this 'bot hunter' role you have appointed yourself to, but please tell the truth.

Listen Francie you should just accept that Blanch hates Sinn Fein because of the IRA; she has every right to do so, people don't have to 'move on' and some people would say that it is a kind of moral nihilism to ask them to.





What's the point in this fruitless discussion.

FrancieBrady

marieholmfan wrote: »

Listen Francie you should just accept that Blanch hates Sinn Fein because of the IRA; she has every right to do so, people don't have to 'move on' and some people would say that it is a kind of moral nihilism to ask them to.





What's the point in this fruitless discussion.

I didn't ask him/her to 'move on', I asked him/her to stop lying about me ..again.

marieholmfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't ask him/her to 'move on', I asked him/her to stop lying about me ..again.

It's not a lie it's just an exaggeration.