People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Our little country has developed well under FF and FG, its not utopia, but changing to any other flip flop hash of a leftist make up won't change that.

It's developed into a haven for multinationals and vulture funds, while suffering under various national crises. Sure, we're not as bad as we could be and over all we survive, but that's simply not good enough and the 'ah sure chancers will be chancers' FF/FG apologists have retarded the growth of Ireland IMO. The fifth most billionaires per capita in the world while we are in crises with working tax payers needing aid to go from week to week. Go on with your 'leftist' talk. We could do with a government looks after workers.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People won't tax them properly or fairly -because they will leave...haven't you heard?
That is indirect influence to my mind. I wonder were FG or FF told they would leave by any of the FDIer's? That would be direct unelected influence.

I wonder why Sinn Fein campaigned to reduce the corporation tax rate in the north to 12.5%? They must think it has worked well in the south.

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No. Look yourself. I'm not arsed.

Not defending, saying building social housing is great. If they fall short, it'll be disappointing but that's okay. Not like saying no more quangos and then creating IW, putting pals on the board and having a deal with Denis O'Brien (again) currently under investigation.
You seem to be obsessed. I think you secretly want to vote SF.

Sure I’d sing for Ireland in the Eurovision only I’m not arsed. Got ya!

I prefer politicians to be a little less blatant with their lies. Then again some members of the public are more easily fooled than others.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Sure I’d sing for Ireland in the Eurovision only I’m not arsed. Got ya!

I prefer politicians to be a little less blatant with their lies. Then again some members of the public are more easily fooled than others.

So you don't think SF in government would build social housing? Fair enough.
No quangos, change the way we do business; there's your lies.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So have SF decided to increase our corporation tax rate unbeknown to me, I missed that.

Whenever anyone talks about making corporations pay more the cry goes up that they will flee the country.

That was the point. It wasn't about SF or what they were proposing specifically.

Edgware

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I wonder why Sinn Fein campaigned to reduce the corporation tax rate in the north to 12.5%? They must think it has worked well in the south.

Stop that talk. It will damage the Peace Process

Bishop of hope

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I wonder why Sinn Fein campaigned to reduce the corporation tax rate in the north to 12.5%? They must think it has worked well in the south.

Because they seen how well FF and FG policy was working here.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I prefer politicians to be a little less blatant with their lies.

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So you don't think SF in government would build social housing? Fair enough.
No quangos, change the way we do business; there's your lies.

I don’t believe Sinn Fein will build any house for €65,000.

Or 12 major rail projects for a total of €1.3 billion.

You believe it all you want.

Finty Lemon

Four simple criteria for screening election candidates, regardless of party:

1. Have they ever been involved in student's union protest politics? If yes, delete
2. Have they ever changed their name? If yes, delete
3. Have they ever had a real job? If No, then delete (Note 'occupations' such as community worker/activist, trade union rep, or political adviser do not count as work)
4. Have they ever had a criminal conviction? If yes, delete.

When you apply these simple and reliable rules, how many SF candidates remain? Take a few examples
Eoin O Broin (West Ham polytechnics finest public intellectual)- fails on 3 counts
Matt Carthy- never had a job in his life- fail
Pearse Doherty- let down by his lack of experience of real work also- fail
MLM- Gone on 2 counts
Aengus O Snodaigh- Fails on 3 (but should be 4)
Sean Crowe- Did he ever earn a cent that wasn't paid by 'the movement'?
David Cullinane- Didn't change his name but changed his party

Despite the protestations and whiff of radicalism, by definition the majority of these guys are using the system for their own gains at the expense of the taxpayer. By definition then, the ultimate 'establishment party'. Wake up people

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Only if you take manifestos as 100% accurate. For me, as I've already said, it's a move in the right direction how every many they end up building. A positive policy shift in favour of the working tax payer.

Hundreds of posts over hundreds of days castigating Fine Gael from a height for every detail of their manifesto that they didn't implement and then this. Unbelievable.

Sinn Fein's manifesto is a joke, a fantasy, more unicorns and rainbows. Unfortunately, there seems to be an awful lot of people who are willing to allow themselves to be fooled by it.

It took 30 years to repeat 1977 in 2007, we are back to it in only 13 years this time. On each of those occasions the electorate fell for the salesman selling birds in the bush, this time looks no different so far.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Four simple criteria for screening election candidates, regardless of party:

1. Have they ever been involved in student's union protest politics? If yes, delete
2. Have they ever changed their name? If yes, delete
3. Have they ever had a real job? If No, then delete (Note 'occupations' such as community worker/activist, trade union rep, or political adviser do not count as work)
4. Have they ever had a criminal conviction? If yes, delete.

When you apply these simple and reliable rules, how many SF candidates remain? Take a few examples
Eoin O Broin (West Ham polytechnics finest public intellectual)- fails on 3 counts
Matt Carthy- never had a job in his life- fail
Pearse Doherty- let down by his lack of experience of real work also- fail
MLM- Gone on 2 counts
Aengus O Snodaigh- Fails on 3 (but should be 4)
Sean Crowe- Did he ever earn a cent that wasn't paid by 'the movement'?
David Cullinane- Didn't change his name but changed his party

Despite the protestations and whiff of radicalism, by definition the majority of these guys are using the system for their own gains at the expense of the taxpayer. By definition then, the ultimate 'establishment party'. Wake up people

Here's another arbitrary one for you,

Is a millionaire - If Yes - Delete.

I haven't the time to count how many FF and FG politicians would disappear, I'm making a Sheperd's Pie here.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So you don't think SF in government would build social housing? Fair enough.
No quangos, change the way we do business; there's your lies.

Assume Sinn Fein get an overall majority.

Sinn Fein in government will end up having to sell off the existing social housing stock to keep the wolf from the door as their taxation policies will have killed the economy.

P.S. Who will build the social housing if we have no quango? David Cullinane?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here's another arbitrary one for you,

Is a millionaire - If Yes - Delete.

I haven't the time to count how many FF and FG politicians would disappear, I'm making a Sheperd's Pie here.

Would that be a sterling millionaire or a euro millionaire?

In fairness Sinn Fein have a better image since the privately educated took over the party, or should I say, became the public face of the party.

Nothing like being lectured on the needs of the working class by an old Rock boy like O Broin.

facehugger99

blanch152 wrote: »

Hundreds of posts over hundreds of days castigating Fine Gael from a height for every detail of their manifesto that they didn't implement and then this. Unbelievable.

Sinn Fein's manifesto is a joke, a fantasy, more unicorns and rainbows. Unfortunately, there seems to be an awful lot of people who are willing to allow themselves to be fooled by it.

It took 30 years to repeat 1977 in 2007, we are back to it in only 13 years this time. On each of those occasions the electorate fell for the salesman selling birds in the bush, this time looks no different so far.

Dozens of posts in the Children's Hospital thread castigating FG for overruns and now shrugs his shoulders and says he doesn't care how much over SF's 'budget' social houses cost to build as long as they're built.

Talk about losing any credibility as a poster.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whenever anyone talks about making corporations pay more the cry goes up that they will flee the country.

That was the point. It wasn't about SF or what they were proposing specifically.

Like Tubs and co. leaving RTE

Edgware wrote: »

Stop that talk. It will damage the Peace Process

Wasn't that the Brexit sh*te talk some months ago about 'stability'?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t believe Sinn Fein will build any house for €65,000.

Or 12 major rail projects for a total of €1.3 billion.

You believe it all you want.

Thanks, will do.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Hundreds of posts over hundreds of days castigating Fine Gael from a height for every detail of their manifesto that they didn't implement and then this. Unbelievable.

Sinn Fein's manifesto is a joke, a fantasy, more unicorns and rainbows. Unfortunately, there seems to be an awful lot of people who are willing to allow themselves to be fooled by it.

It took 30 years to repeat 1977 in 2007, we are back to it in only 13 years this time. On each of those occasions the electorate fell for the salesman selling birds in the bush, this time looks no different so far.

Have I cited their 2020 manifesto once? 'every detail' Feel free to run away.

Did 'unicorns and rainbows' come straight from FG HQ or are you lads just borrowing off each other?

This schick again. Building social housing is a far better deal than the waste of 25 year leases and hotels. If you were being honest and not just peddling gripes you might vote SF yourself

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Would that be a sterling millionaire or a euro millionaire?

In fairness Sinn Fein have a better image since the privately educated took over the party, or should I say, became the public face of the party.

Nothing like being lectured on the needs of the working class by an old Rock boy like O Broin.

Can Old Rock boys (whatever they are) not have social consciences now?

Does everyone have to perform within your class distinctions? Dear me, we do reveal ourselves.

James Brown

facehugger99 wrote: »

Dozens of posts in the Children's Hospital thread castigating FG for overruns and now shrugs his shoulders and says he doesn't care how much over SF's 'budget' social houses cost to build as long as they're built.

Talk about losing any credibility as a poster.

You used the NCH to criticise SF. Talk about credibility

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can Old Rock boys (whatever they are) not have social consciences now?

Does everyone have to perform within your class distinctions? Dear me, we do reveal ourselves.

Of course they can Frankie. I believe some students of private schools in Dublin even spend a night sleeping out around Christmas each year. You know to get a real feel of what it’s like to be homeless and raise some much needed funds.

Regarding class I find it interesting that the left in Ireland are generally led by the well heeled and privately educated.

Boyd Barret, Paul Murphy, Mary Lou etc.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course they can Frankie. I believe some students of private schools in Dublin even spend a night sleeping out around Christmas each year. You know to get a real feel of what it’s like to be homeless and raise some much needed funds.

Regarding class I find it interesting that the left in Ireland are generally led by the well heeled and privately educated.

Boyd Barret, Paul Murphy, Mary Lou etc.

Might as well fully reveal yourself...what do you find interesting about it?

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course they can Frankie. I believe some students of private schools in Dublin even spend a night sleeping out around Christmas each year. You know to get a real feel of what it’s like to be homeless and raise some much needed funds.

Regarding class I find it interesting that the left in Ireland are generally led by the well heeled and privately educated.

Boyd Barret, Paul Murphy, Mary Lou etc.

So you're not allowed think a particular way depending on your background? Are there no FG TD's from tax paying hard working families? All sons and daughters of vulture funds and multinationals?

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So you're not allowed think a particular way depending on your background? Are there no FG TD's from tax paying hard working families? All sons and daughters of vulture funds and multinationals?

Of course people are allowed to think how ever they chose. It’s interesting that the wealthy privileged elite always seem to be over represented in the top tier of all organizations but especially those organisations which promote the interests of the underprivileged.

Nothing wrong with that. If the Irish Women’s council was overwhelmingly run by men, as long as they were the best people to represent the interests of women, so be it.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course people are allowed to think how ever they chose. It’s interesting that the wealthy privileged elite always seem to be over represented in the top tier of all organizations but especially those organisations which promote the interests of the underprivileged.

Nothing wrong with that. If the Irish Women’s council was overwhelmingly run by men, as long as they were the best people to represent the interests of women, so be it.

So why make a snide remark about O'Broin's background and Boyd Barrett's and MLM's?

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course people are allowed to think how ever they chose. It’s interesting that the wealthy privileged elite always seem to be over represented in the top tier of all organizations but especially those organisations which promote the interests of the underprivileged.

Nothing wrong with that. If the Irish Women’s council was overwhelmingly run by men, as long as they were the best people to represent the interests of women, so be it.

What is your point, people have to be working class to represent working class people? Is FG made up of elites in your view? They do seem out of touch. Is that why? Do you not like people based on their background? What's wrong with being well off?
You know Karl Marx went to university right?

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What is your point, people have to be working class to represent working class people? Is FG made up of elites in your view? They do seem out of touch. Is that why? Do you not like people based on their background? What's wrong with being well off?
You know Karl Marx went to university right?

Jeez how did you jump to so many conclusions in just one post.

The point is inequality. The dominance of the elite. The wealthy, privately educated citizens in our society are over represented in all the upper echelons of Irish society, including in political parties like Sinn Fein, Solidarity, PBP whose stated goals are to address inequality in Irish society.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Jeez how did you jump to so many conclusions in just one post.

The point is inequality. The dominance of the elite. The wealthy, privately educated citizens in our society are over represented in all the upper echelons of Irish society, including in political parties like Sinn Fein, Solidarity, PBP whose stated goals are to address inequality in Irish society.

You think it's a conspiracy then?

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Jeez how did you jump to so many conclusions in just one post.

The point is inequality. The dominance of the elite. The wealthy, privately educated citizens in our society are over represented in all the upper echelons of Irish society, including in political parties like Sinn Fein, Solidarity, PBP whose stated goals are to address inequality in Irish society.

Question. The '?' is the clue. Trying to understand why people from well to do families seemingly have no business spouting leftist politics.

I'm glad you brought that up. A lot of politicians went to third level, not all, but a hell of a lot. IMO, the majority of these would be from middle class families. Few from working class. So it stands to reason most politicians on either the left or the right would have attended third level. The middle class would have a higher representation in third level I'd imagine.
Now hopefully we'll see more left or working people representation in government and then we might see less of a class divide.
By your logic, the well to do folk on the left must really mean what they say as they are doing damage, or trying to, to the very system gave them that privilege. Not like the right orientated who are really only looking out for their own interests, based on your analysis.

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Question. The '?' is the clue. Trying to understand why people from well to do families seemingly have no business spouting leftist politics.

I'm glad you brought that up. A lot of politicians went to third level, not all, but a hell of a lot. IMO, the majority of these would be from middle class families. Few from working class. So it stands to reason most politicians on either the left or the right would have attended third level. The middle class would have a higher representation in third level I'd imagine.
Now hopefully we'll see more left or working people representation in government and then we might see less of a class divide.
By your logic, the well to do folk on the left must really mean what they say as they are doing damage, or trying to, to the very system gave them that privilege. Not like the right orientated who are really only looking out for their own interests, based on your analysis.

You can try to misrepresent what I said. The fact remains.

Why are privately educated people from wealthy backgrounds like Mary Lou, Boyd Barrett, Paul Murphy hugely over represented at the top echelons of political parties?
Because of the ingrained inequality in Irish society.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You can try to misrepresent what I said. The fact remains.

Why are privately educated people from wealthy backgrounds like Mary Lou, Boyd Barrett, Paul Murphy hugely over represented at the top echelons of political parties?
Because of the ingrained inequality in Irish society.

I was looking for clarity and didn't get it. Not to worry.

I agree. And they are working to change that. Do you think that's a good thing?
Is this one of those things FF/FG would have addressed if not for pesky partners like Labour?