People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Keep digging there Frankie. You will save a few bob on the foundations of one of those €65k houses.

We won't send you to get the 'additive' for the cement anyhow. You don't know what the word means by the looks of things.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We won't send you to get the 'additive' for the cement anyhow. You don't know what the word means by the looks of things.

I don’t know how you grasp straws and dig at the same time.

markodaly

Whelo79 wrote: »

ML clarified it's €6.5Bn on top of the €6.5Bn already being spent so that equates to aprx €130,000 per house.

So they messed up their Manifesto figures.

Even so, 130k a house. That is still less than the build cost of a house.
They are off about 50k on the build cost, nevermind the 'free' land they are going to build on and the developers working for no commission, or the fact that these houses are going to be VAT free, or that the ESB or Board Gais are going to wave their fees and levies when it comes to connecting these houses to their utilities....

Sinn Fein South Park economics at its finest.

If SF are serious, they should be honest about it.
To build 100,000 houses will cost in the region of at least 20 Billion euro approx.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t know how you grasp straws and dig at the same time.

I did say to way back that I was sure somebody would ask SF about this. They did and it was cleared up in seconds. My only regret is I didn't read the manifesto myself way back. I could have explained the word 'additional' to you, saved us all this.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

*I underlined 'additional' btw.
https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/SF_GE2020_Manifesto.pdf

Additional to what? Why doesnt it say that in the Manifesto?

The additional is still not enough and is also poor form to try and hide the true cost.

markodaly

Trizo wrote: »

Page 5 of SF manifesto -

Build 100,000 homes over 5 years. This will include council housing and affordable homes for renters and first time buyers. Cost - €6.5bn

...., yeah they can try and spin it all they want not fooled. Had SF meant in addition to the FG amount Mary Lou would have said so at the first debate. It’s taken them a few days to come up with this.

They are a bunch of amatuers.

SF paint themselves as the saviour of Ireland, but they are a one trick pony clowns. Anyone that wants to see their record in government can look at the North and the state of housing, homelessness and health up there.

But but.. Make Ireland Great/United Again, or something something.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did say to way back that I was sure somebody would ask SF about this. They did and it was cleared up in seconds. My only regret is I didn't read the manifesto myself way back. I could have explained the word 'additional' to you, saved us all this.

Yes and perhaps you could explain the difference between current expenditure and capital expenditure while you are at it and why the 100,000 houses are given a “capital expenditure” of €6.5 billion over 5 years?

So all other housing expenditure stops does it?

And you claim you are going to end homelessness?

Sinn Fein were rumbled and are trying to save face.

It’s just a pity Mary Lou wasn’t asked about the the most ambitious railway construction programme the country has seen since the days of steam. All for €1.3 billion. Maybe they will put A toll on the railway :-)

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

They are a bunch of amatuers.

SF paint themselves as the saviour of Ireland, but they are a one trick pony clowns. Anyone that wants to see their record in government can look at the North and the state of housing, homelessness and health up there.

But but.. Make Ireland Great/United Again, or something something.

ALL the manifestos are off except Labours according to the Dept. No surprise there. They are piffle and puff pieces produced to buy votes.

As I said earlier, my advice is to ignore them.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes and perhaps you could explain the difference between current expenditure and capital expenditure while you are at it and why the 100,000 houses are given a “capital expenditure” of €6.5 billion over 5 years?

So all other housing expenditure stops does it?

And you claim you are going to end homelessness?

Sinn Fein were rumbled and are trying to save face.

It’s just a pity Mary Lou wasn’t asked about the the most ambitious railway construction programme the country has seen since the days of steam. All for €1.3 billion. Maybe they will put A toll on the railway :-)

Ask SF.

But don't tell porkies about what is actually said in the manifestos. People will think you have an agenda.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ALL the manifestos are off except Labours according to the Dept. No surprise there. They are piffle and puff pieces produced to buy votes.

As I said earlier, my advice is to ignore them.

Ah, the retort of, "sure they are all the same"

We have about half a dozen threads on FG and the government and how they are at fault for everything and anything.

The one thread that focuses on SF, who want to see themselves as a credabile alternative in Government, where push comes to shove, their supporters cannot even defend basic policy or lack simple math comprehension.

Fecking.Astounding. :):):D:D:D

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Ah, the retort of, "sure they are all the same"

We have about half a dozen threads on FG and the government and how they are at fault for everything and anything.

The one thread that focuses on SF, who want to see themselves as a credabile alternative in Government, where push comes to shove, their supporters cannot even defend basic policy or lack simple math comprehension.

Fecking.Astounding. :):):D:D:D

I lack simple math comprehension?

I know what 'additional' means.

And I agree with Matt..SF will build houses. If they have over egged the figures in a manifesto as all other party's clearly do, so be it.
I don't use manifestos to decide who I am voting for. Never have.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I lack simple math comprehension?

I know what 'additional' means.

And I agree with Matt..SF will build houses. If they have over egged the figures in a manifesto as all other party's clearly do, so be it.
I don't use manifestos to decide who I am voting for. Never have.

Why then does their manifesto outline the cost of 100,000 houses as 6.5 Billion but on another page, the cost is 6.5 Billion in addition to what is being spent now?

Does it say ANYWHERE in the manifesto what the additional is?
Because additional can be 1 euro or 10 Billion euro

facehugger99

markodaly wrote: »

Why then does their manifesto outline the cost of 100,000 houses as 6.5 Billion but on another page, the cost is 6.5 Billion in addition to what is being spent now?

Literally everyone gets that - even Francie, wriggle as he might.

It's fun to watch though, clinging onto the word 'additional' like a man drowning in a sea of Shinnernomics.

We may need a new word for the verbal gymnastics on display - Shinnercabulary?

FrancieBrady

What can I say?

You want me to get upset about something I place no value on? They are advertising bumf lads - manifestos.
No more important than the shiny leaflets from the pizza or Indian takeaway place that drop through your letterbox.

If it said they were building houses for €25 or €2.5 million it would be of the same impact to me.

I only read it last night and what annoys me is how the usual anti-republican crew mis-represented that for their agenda's. That is the issue for me.

You can talk among your selves about the cost of building houses tbh.

Phoebas

That's a fascinating insight into SF economic thinking; the numbers don't matter!

MLMD demonstrated a similar blasé attitude the other day on the pensions timebomb when she said that 'the demographics will look after themselves'.

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

That's a fascinating insight into SF economic thinking; the numbers don't matter!

MLMD demonstrated a similar blasé attitude the other day on the pensions timebomb when she said that 'the demographics will look after themselves'.

According to Yates last night - the Dept Of Finance say all the manifestos suffer from the same issue.

Seriously, I will say it one last time, if you are using manifestos to pick your team, prepare to be very disappointed.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to Yates last night - the Dept Of Finance say all the manifestos suffer from the same issue.

Seriously, I will say it one last time, if you are using manifestos to pick your team, prepare to be very disappointed.

Yeah they do but FF & FG will take the hit on not implementing stuff and justify it whereas SF are more likely to try to push ahead with all of theirs. If they don't they can ask Labour what happens!

smurgen

Phoebas wrote: »

That's a fascinating insight into SF economic thinking; the numbers don't matter!

MLMD demonstrated a similar blasé attitude the other day on the pensions timebomb when she said that 'the demographics will look after themselves'.

They projections and cost are similar to the two two main parties yet you seem fixtures on the SF numbers?
And we can talk about numbers when you come back to us with a final number for the cost of the NCH.

piplip87

Remember Marylou said last night that she would basically commercial building around the country to build these social houses.......

So stop building offices for people who want to go there to afford a house, so the building resources can be given to build houses for people who don't want to work.....

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What can I say?

You want me to get upset about something I place no value on? They are advertising bumf lads - manifestos.
No more important than the shiny leaflets from the pizza or Indian takeaway place that drop through your letterbox.

If it said they were building houses for €25 or €2.5 million it would be of the same impact to me.

I only read it last night and what annoys me is how the usual anti-republican crew mis-represented that for their agenda's. That is the issue for me.

You can talk among your selves about the cost of building houses tbh.

Of course the difference between the local takeaway menu and the Sinn Fein manifesto is that the local takeaway delivers for the price indicated!

Phoebas

smurgen wrote: »

They projections and cost are similar to the two two main parties yet you seem fixtures on the SF numbers?

And we can talk about numbers when you come back to us with a final number for the cost of the NCH.

My concern is that SF don't seem to be bothered about the numbers. For Francie, it doesn't matter that a house costs 75k or 150k or any other k.
That's even worse than the numbers not adding up.

On the NCH, the government are taking a lot of criticism on the original estimates being way under the projected costs - and rightly so.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Of course the difference between the local takeaway menu and the Sinn Fein manifesto is that the local takeaway delivers for the price indicated!

Takeaways make you fat and wreck your heart SS

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Takeaways make you fat and wreck your heart SS

You are right there. I’m off them and doing dry January. I have a communion and a wedding later in the year. A stone down since New Years. #alotDoneMoreToDo

facehugger99

Phoebas wrote: »

That's a fascinating insight into SF economic thinking; the numbers don't matter!

It's also a great insight into the how the Shinner keyboard lads have been trained by HQ.

Step 1 - Defend (Economies of scale, I got my house valued at €65k, etc)

Step 2 - Deflect (Look at all the manifesto promises FF/FG broke)

Step 3 - Deny (they actually didn't say they'd build the houses for €65k)

Step 4 - Doesn't Matter (Who cares? All these manifesto promises are meaningless anyway)

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are right there. I’m off them and doing dry January. I have a communion and a wedding later in the year. A stone down since New Years. #alotDoneMoreToDo

Could be a metaphor for the last 100 years of government in that. But I'll resist!

Trizo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What can I say?

You want me to get upset about something I place no value on? They are advertising bumf lads - manifestos.
No more important than the shiny leaflets from the pizza or Indian takeaway place that drop through your letterbox.

If it said they were building houses for €25 or €2.5 million it would be of the same impact to me.

I only read it last night and what annoys me is how the usual anti-republican crew mis-represented that for their agenda's. That is the issue for me.

You can talk among your selves about the cost of building houses tbh.

Great so we’re in agreement and you’ve admitted defeat the SF manifesto is BS, fantasy land stuff .. great ... happy days we move on..

Now having discarded said manifesto, tell me given that we don’t know what SF stand for or intend to implement if voted into government why should I vote for them ... ?

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's also a great insight into the how the Shinner keyboard lads have been trained by HQ.

Step 1 - Defend (Economies of scale, I got my house valued at €65k, etc)

Step 2 - Deflect (Look at all the manifesto promises FF/FG broke)

Step 3 - Deny (they actually didn't say they'd build the houses for €65k)

Step 4 - Doesn't Matter (Who cares? All these manifesto promises are meaningless anyway)

Your problem FH is, that you cannot see that FG and FF have employed these methods for 100 years.

Ask Michael Martin about the 2008 crash if you need illustration of that.

*by the way, when I was building my house on a plot of land that could take 4 houses, I could have built those four and got my own house almost free as a result of selling the other 3. I didn't get planning to do that, but economies of scale are a huge factor.
As it turned out, I saved a fortune of the costed price of the house i did build by being prudent and meticulous in watching the budgets. A skill the current government seems to lack completely.

FrancieBrady

Trizo wrote: »

Great so we’re in agreement and you’ve admitted defeat the SF manifesto is BS, fantasy land stuff .. great ... happy days we move on..

Now having discarded said manifesto, tell me given that we don’t know what SF stand for or intend to implement if voted into government why should I vote for them ... ?

You vote for who you like my friend. I'm not canvassing for anybody.

Do I think SF can deliver what I want - a fairer society?

I don't know if they can, but they are certainly entitled to a chance at it.

Trizo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You vote for who you like my friend. I'm not canvassing for anybody.

Do I think SF can deliver what I want - a fairer society?

I don't know if they can, but they are certainly entitled to a chance at it.

Pretty sure I know who I’m going to vote for but still undecided on some transfer potential but I’m open to being convinced.

Would just like someone to explain to me why I should vote for SF genuine question, not trying to trick anyone etc..

Given they haven’t been in government the manifesto is all we can use to understand their aims so if it’s all tosh i have nothing to go on.

Everyone wants a fairer society and everyone loves mom and apple pie but policies need to be costed and the economy has to be protected too.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your problem FH is, that you cannot see that FG and FF have employed these methods for 100 years.

Ask Michael Martin about the 2008 crash if you need illustration of that.

But , but , but, I though SF were a fresh start from all of that?

I thought that was the whole raison d'etre for voting for them?

You better not tell Matt Barrett that all you have to look forward to under a Shinner Govt is more of the same because that lad wants the full 'rainbows and unicorns'.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

*by the way, when I was building my house on a plot of land that could take 4 houses, I could have built those four and got my own house almost free as a result of selling the other 3. I didn't get planning to do that, but economies of scale are a huge factor.
As it turned out, I saved a fortune of the costed price of the house i did build by being prudent and meticulous in watching the budgets. A skill the current government seems to lack completely.

Fascinating, honestly. I'm sure you're amazing at budgeting.

No idea of its relevance.