People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

Finty Lemon

almostover wrote: »

Do tell, how to you envision a united Ireland? One where we tell the prods and orangemen up north to go and bugger off? Two wrongs won't make things right. Any united Ireland will have to be respectful of the culture of Unionists up North. Many concessions will have to be made and the olive branch extended, it's not just a case of singing Amhran na Bhfiann and telling unionists to go back to mainland Britian. What worries me is that the DUP and Sinn Fein have polarised the North. Pity the more moderate parties have faded away. Hopefully that will change and we can build a united Ireland for all. Not Sinn Fein's version of a united Ireland just for nationalists

It will mean that the Republic will be governed from Belfast. That's how.

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

" Work in finance"

All right all right, he does the door on the local bingo hall.

I thought Leo said you weren't the nasty party?

maccored

almostover wrote: »

SF are constantly clamouring for a UI but what is their proposal for making that work? I remain unconvinced that they have a coherent plan beyond the border poll for actually making a peaceful UI work. Having said that FF and FG don't either.

theres this thing called google - you should try it

https://www.sinnfein.ie/a-republic-for-all-policy

FrancieBrady

Unconfirmed but fascinating if true:

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1223689460128395265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1223689460128395265&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058045382%26page%3D25

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Some of us have to work. Unlike some people who are on defending a political party 24/7.

Burn on Francie. He does be on boards a lot. That told him *off to vote FG* :rolleyes:

mariaalice

Even more, convinced that SF supporters put people off voting for them if boards are anything to go by.

SF is the only party we haven't had a leaflet in the door from despite the fact there is a SF TD in the constituency, now they are unlikely to have many supporters where I live but there are bound to be some.

He most likely will get in again but has a very narrow base of support.

McMurphy

mariaalice wrote: »

Even more, convinced that SF supporters put people off voting for them.

SF is the only party we haven't had a leaflet in the door from despite the fact there is a SF TD in the constituency, now they are unlikely to have many supporters where I live but there are bound to be some.

He most likely will get in again but has a very narrow base of support.

It's kind of hard to make sense of this post.

You're saying that they are unlikely to have support where you live, yet there's a TD in the constituency, which indicates that they obviously have support in the area, and they've given him a mandate to represent them.

You also said you're convinced Sinn Fein supporters put people off voting for them, yet didn't elaborate why.

As for the leaflet, fair play, I've dozens of the bloody things here, and if I could have it my way both them and the eyesores of posters would be prohibited, it's a waste of paper and a blot on the landscape!

Is it perhaps possible that you just don't like Sinn Fein hence this rather vague post?

mariaalice

McMurphy wrote: »

It's kind of hard to make sense of this post.

You're saying that they are unlikely to have support where you live, yet there's a TD in the constituency, which indicates that they obviously have support in the area, and they've given him a mandate to represent them.

You also said you're convinced Sinn Fein supporters put people off voting for them, yet didn't elaborate why.

As for the leaflet, fair play, I've dozens of the bloody things here, and if I could have it my way both them and the eyesores of posters would be prohibited, it's a waste of paper and a blot on the landscape!

Is it perhaps possible that you just don't like Sinn Fein hence this rather vague post?

The SF base of support is a nearby very large town and they seem to stick to that unlike all the rest who are canvassing all over the constituency.

SF have some very good candidates but as I said the type of supporters they have localy would put me off voting for them.

almostover

maccored wrote: »

theres this thing called google - you should try it

https://www.sinnfein.ie/a-republic-for-all-policy

That's an aspirational vision of a united Ireland, not much substance in it with regards to policy. Anyway it's all moot in terms of how I will vote as SF don't even have a candidate running in my constituency.

I plan on voting FG & Soc Dems. More likely that Soc Dems will be in government than FG will. What baffles me is that FF are on the rise again, it isn't that long since they crashed the country. I'd like to see FF and FG merge so that there would be a clear divide in irish politics from which to choose, FF/FG in the centre, SF, Soc Dems, Labour and Greens centre left, PBP et al. borderline communism and Aontu for bible thumpers.

I've had a go at SF here as they are pushing strongly for a border poll without much indication of it resulting an an united Ireland and without any meaningful cross border discussion on how a United Ireland would work. I'd much rather see them campaign to put forward cross community projects and initiatives up North to bring the moderates on both sides together. Start paving the way for a united Ireland that way by trying to break down barriers between moderate unionists and nationalists. Instead Mary Lou is constantly clamouring about a border poll which has no chance of passing and would be deeply divisive if it were triggered now.

flanna01

To be honest, I couldn't give one flying hoot about SF, DUP, Protestants, Catholics blah, blah blah...

But to achieve a UI, all parties must come together for the betterment of the Island of Ireland.

No more looking back, time to look forward to a new dawn.. Embrace each others cultures, traditions, opinions...

As crazy as it sounds, SF and the DUP should consider amalgamating their respective parties into one - One party that represents both sides of the troubled past... Once the parties and respected leaders demonstrate unity,the rest will follow on...

But shur what do I know about politics anyway......

Idbatterim

Ff and Fg are quite different though. Fg way more fiscally conservative and prudent

almostover

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ff and Fg are quite different though. Fg way more fiscally conservative and prudent

True, in that case I'd rather see FF disbanded and their more centrist politicians joining FG and the more populist ones going to SF. Would make most sense.

James Brown

mariaalice wrote: »

The SF base of support is a nearby very large town and they seem to stick to that unlike all the rest who are canvassing all over the constituency.

SF have some very good candidates but as I said the type of supporters they have localy would put me off voting for them.

Fair enough. The SF canvassers in my area can be a bit pushy, but you said good candidates. These candidates are the ones up for election.
A good friend of my aunt, a lovely woman, canvasses for FG, but the candidate is a complete flip flopper, liar and snob who I won't be voting for.
I'd go by the candidate.

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ff and Fg are quite different though. Fg way more fiscally conservative and prudent

Are you being sarcastic?
NCH, IW, Reilly's clinics, Sitserv deal. And no doubt, broadband after that.
Not to mention NAMA selling properties to vulture funds then buying them back and Leo's spin department. Leasing luxury apartments for 25 years and hotels as social housing.
But yeah the fiscally conservative myth.. .

Idbatterim

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are you being sarcastic?
NCH, IW, Reilly's clinics, Sitserv deal. And no doubt, broadband after that.
Not to mention NAMA selling properties to vulture funds then buying them back and Leo's spin department. Leasing luxury apartments for 25 years and hotels as social housing.
But yeah the fiscally conservative myth.. .

Matt I get that. The overspending are ridiculous, but nch, nbp are one off once in a generation projects. When ff increasing spending massively every year , that extra 2-3 billion needs to be found every year and they combine it with billions on top , every year. A compounded problem when the economy slows or crashes ! Also the ff fools would have shown the same incompetence most likely on those projects.

Both those parties do nothing but waffle and stall. Imagine building it at height of recession, what the prices would have been and it would have kept skilled workers here, that we now really need. They are absolute morons. Same with building Dublin metro and dart underground. They didn’t make any hard decisions after the bust. They made tha easy one for them at every turn and the chickens are coming home to roost.

efanton

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ff and Fg are quite different though. Fg way more fiscally conservative and prudent

The problem is is simply.

FG are often way too prudent, which forces the next government into spending and it being a FF government they dont spend wisely or certainly dont keep check on the promises they make, which then forces the next government to try cut back on spending but rather than cut back on wasted spending they cut back on tax, education, housing, social services, and then we are back at the beginning of the cycle again.

Who is to blame for this? BOTH parties, as rather than see the mistakes that each have made previously and learn they go back into the same cycle repeatedly and nothing is achieved

This is why I find it incredulous that both parties will shoot down any other party's alternative budget or program for government.
Can SF achieve what they are promising and still return a surplus, the simple answer to that is YES, BUT ONLY IF THEY GET VALUE FOR MONEY FROM THE SPENDING THEY MAKE.
The problem in this country is not what is promised at an election, all programs for government and budgets are independently verified after all, the problem is how the policies are implemented.

Can anyone explain to me why reasonably intelligent men and women would sign up to a contract that had no fixed price, no penalty clauses, no proper project management and no accountability to those involved in a project.
Yet FF and FG have done exactly this repeatedly. Children's hospital, broadband plan, M50, M20, LUAS, Port Tunnel, the list is endless.
Yet the same supposedly intelligent men and women from FG and FF will pour scorn on any other party proposed solution even when it has been independently verified. Yet they insist that the electorate must believe them despite previously failing themselves to deliver or keep their promises.


The problem will be exactly the same for SF if they ever get into government. Its one thing to have a plan, its another thing altogether to deliver it anyway close to budget.

But personally speaking, FG and FF have proven themselves time and time again to be incapable of learning from their own mistakes, I am willing to give SF the chance to proof themselves. Why not there's nothing left to loose, and only a fool would believe that FF or FG will actually keep or deliver on their promises.

windy shepard henderson

efanton wrote: »

The problem is is simply.

FG are often way too prudent, which forces the next government into spending and it being a FF government they dont spend wisely or certainly dont keep check on the promises they make, which then forces the next government to try cut back on spending but rather than cut back on wasted spending they cut back on tax, education, housing, social services, and then we are back at the beginning of the cycle again.

Who is to blame for this? BOTH parties, as rather than see the mistakes that each have made previously and learn they go back into the same cycle repeatedly and nothing is achieved

This is why I find it incredulous that both parties will shoot down any other party's alternative budget or program for government.
Can SF achieve what they are promising and still return a surplus, the simple answer to that is YES, BUT ONLY IF THEY GET VALUE FOR MONEY FROM THE SPENDING THEY MAKE.
The problem in this country is not what is promised at an election, all programs for government and budgets are independently verified after all, the problem is how the policies are implemented.

Can anyone explain to me why reasonably intelligent men and women would sign up to a contract that had no fixed price, no penalty clauses, no proper project management and no accountability to those involved in a project.
Yet FF and FG have done exactly this repeatedly. Children's hospital, broadband plan, M50, M20, LUAS, Port Tunnel, the list is endless.
Yet the same supposedly intelligent men and women from FG and FF will pour scorn on any other party proposed solution even when it has been independently verified. Yet they insist that the electorate must believe them despite previously failing themselves to deliver or keep their promises.


The problem will be exactly the same for SF if they ever get into government. Its one thing to have a plan, its another thing altogether to deliver it anyway close to budget.

But personally speaking, FG and FF have proven themselves time and time again to be incapable of learning from their own mistakes, I am willing to give SF the chance to proof themselves. Why not there's nothing left to loose, and only a fool would believe that FF or FG will actually keep or deliver on their promises.

I dont think FF or FG proved they couldn't learn from mistakes i just think it was arrogance that people would vote for them regardless, thats why i was disappointed with SF strategy they could have caught up with both parties if they ran enough candidates in terms of seats in the Dáil

James Brown

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

I dont think FF or FG proved they couldn't learn from mistakes i just think it was arrogance that people would vote for them regardless, thats why i was disappointed with SF strategy they could have caught up with both parties if they ran enough candidates in terms of seats in the Dáil

See that's the thing. They don't make mistakes. If things weren't going as they liked they'd change policy. Things happen out of their control but both parties follow their policies that cause damage to the country but as long as there own are looked after they'll worry about issues as they arise. Record breaking crises are mere collateral damage for FG, otherwise they'd change tact and try address them they only do in so much as it doesn't effect the profit margins of pals.

windy shepard henderson

Matt Barrett wrote: »

See that's the thing. They don't make mistakes. If things weren't going as they liked they'd change policy. Things happen out of their control but both parties follow their policies that cause damage to the country but as long as there own are looked after they'll worry about issues as they arise. Record breaking crises are mere collateral damage for FG, otherwise they'd change tact and try address them they only do in so much as it doesn't effect the profit margins of pals.

They made a balls of their candidate choices accross the country they easily could have closed the gap if they ran the campaign properly

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There were people here a decade ago predicting that FF would never see the light of day again. I disagreed at the time because anything is possible in politics.
And overall majority for anyone is hard to see, but not impossible.

Nobody was predicting that FF would see the light of day again. They got severely punished that's all.

The electorate is very fickle because we never vote on anything long term. Even FG/Lab got hit in the previous election because people were inpatient for recovery in a few short years.

I thought it was unfair on labour particularly as people expected that as a minor coalition partner that they could deliver their whole agenda instead of valuing then on what they could do. They're was an expectation that they should bring the government down on the first thing that their voters didn't get.

We were building 90k houses before the crash. But which parties are promoting sustainable building now?

windy shepard henderson

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nobody was predicting that FF world see the light of day again. They got severely punished that's all.

The electorate is very fickle because we never vote on anything long term. Even FG/Lab got hot because people were inpatient for recovery in a few short years.

We were building 90k houses before the crash. But which parties are promoting sustainable building now?

If people were predicting that about FF, they missed the 2002 election

efanton

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

I dont think FF or FG proved they couldn't learn from mistakes i just think it was arrogance that people would vote for them regardless, thats why i was disappointed with SF strategy they could have caught up with both parties if they ran enough candidates in terms of seats in the Dáil

I think it had more to do with being able to afford to run that many candidates and being able to put forward people that they could totally trust in government.
Also the silly gender quota, which in principal is good but in practice a terrible solution, but in many constituencies because of the gender quota parties have decided not to field a candidate because of it.
Personally I would sooner see quality rather than quantity.

Also SF are a growing party. coming form 1 seat to potentially well over 20 seats in as many years cant be easy to manage.

If they an get 20 to 25 seats in this election they will be in very good shape for the next, and I'm certain that is what is terrifying to FF and FG.

windy shepard henderson

efanton wrote: »

I think it had more to do with being able to afford to run that many candidates and being able to put forward people that they could totally trust in government.
Also the silly gender quota, which in principal is good but in practice a terrible solution, but in many constituencies because of the gender quota parties have decided not to field a candidate because of it.
Personally I would sooner see quality rather than quantity.

Also SF are a growing party. coming form 1 seat to potentially well over 20 seats in as many years cant be easy to manage.

If they an get 20 to 25 seats in this election they will be in very good shape for the next, and I'm certain that is what is terrifying to FF and FG.

No it hadn't, Noreen moran a candidate that got over 5000 first preference votes was overlooked by a candidate that could barely muster 500 votes in a local election last year

It happened in several constitutionsices and now it is showing its head

windy shepard henderson

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

No it hadn't, Noreen moran a candidate that got over 5000 first preference votes was overlooked by a candidate that could barely muster 500 votes in a local election last year

It happened in several constitutionsices anf now it is showing its head

In clare this is

Edgware

Sinn Fein might regret their candidate strategy next week with candidates surpluses going all over the place. It will be very interesting to see if they can hold the two seats in Dublin mid West
It would be some feat of vote management

SafeSurfer

efanton wrote: »

I think it had more to do with being able to afford to run that many candidates and being able to put forward people that they could totally trust in government.
Also the silly gender quota, which in principal is good but in practice a terrible solution, but in many constituencies because of the gender quota parties have decided not to field a candidate because of it.
Personally I would sooner see quality rather than quantity.

Also SF are a growing party. coming form 1 seat to potentially well over 20 seats in as many years cant be easy to manage.

If they an get 20 to 25 seats in this election they will be in very good shape for the next, and I'm certain that is what is terrifying to FF and FG.

Sure they already have over 20 seats.

Edgware

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Sure they already have over 20 seats.

Of course a lot depends on the seat they might take. e.g. taking Pringles seat in Donegal or Gino Kenny seat in Dublin won't reduce the seat count of FG or FF. In any case it looks like that all the rest are going to give SF the pariah treatment and there is nothing SF can do about it

McMurphy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nobody was predicting that FF would see the light of day again. They got severely punished that's all.

The electorate is very fickle because we never vote on anything long term. Even FG/Lab got hit in the previous election because people were inpatient for recovery in a few short years.

I thought it was unfair on labour particularly as people expected that as a minor coalition partner that they could deliver their whole agenda instead of valuing then on what they could do. They're was an expectation that they should bring the government down on the first thing that their voters didn't get.

We were building 90k houses before the crash. But which parties are promoting sustainable building now?

Irish Water, Irish Water, Irish water.

That is all.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Irish Water, Irish Water, Irish water.

That is all.

Irish water looks like a rounding error in comparison to the manifestos that are out at the moment.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Irish water looks like a rounding error in comparison to the manifestos that are out at the moment.

Irish water wasn't just a financial disaster, it was a PR disaster also.

Big Phil got shunted to Europe over it, and Alan Kelly wasn't much better arrogance wise for a replacement.