People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

I actually do see a simple solution to this. Use state owned land and just throw up mobiles on it , or something that can be moved easily and used again. I believe when my dad was working on a hospital in Berlin in the early nineties, that’s what they did there. This issue is obviously being addressed to get infrastructure built across the world. Just see what they are doing ...

Rip off rents and even getting accommodation, would make it hard to attract workers ...

How do you know things are been built quicker across the world?

Like put up some examples.of this and how it can be done instead of I guess this and I guess they could do that.

Realistic proposals instead of Mary Lou saying I'm sure or I guess they will come home and build houses.

I'm guess is now taken as gospel.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Have you a cost for all this and where the money comes from?

Sorry are you saying it can’t be done ? Or insinuating there isn’t the will to get it done ?!

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah and what is that to me now and loads of others I know fcuked by this housing crisis ? Ffg are currently taking the piss. If you were in the other side of the fence , you’d feel differently.

Seriously man, you spent months slating FG then last week said you will vote for them and now you're slating them again!!

Are you going to vote for them or what!?

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

How do you know things are been built quicker across the world?

Like put up some examples.of this and how it can be done instead of I guess this and I guess they could do that.

Realistic proposals instead of Mary Lou saying I'm sure or I guess they will come home and build houses.

I'm guess is now taken as gospel.

You think the rest of the world operates In the glacial manner this small rock does ? Have you ever left the place ?

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

Sorry are you saying it can’t be done ? Or insinuating there isn’t the will to get it done ?!

I'm saying both.

The money simply isn't there and we don't have the workforce to do it.

You can't magic up houses for everyone overnight.

Yet seems some people who have no experience in construction etc think they know better.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Seriously man, you spent months slating FG then last week said you will vote for them and now you're slating them again!!

Are you going to vote for them or what!?

I don know. a good bit of me says **** it , I don’t have much to lose. decades of appalling mismanagement. This will answer all the “ what if’s “ , if sf get in

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

You think the rest of the world operates In the glacial manner this small rock does ? Have you ever left the place ?

I've been to a lot of countries especially Asia and South America where there is shanty towns and millions on the streets who are properly homeless, which will never be put up in a hotel free of charge. They are literally left to their own devices on the streets.

It seems people like yourself know nothing of the world outside of Ireland.

You bang on about the welfare state every day yet think other countries look after their people better and build them free houses according to you and that's what you want here.

You are permanently confused on these issues.

SafeSurfer

Odhinn wrote: »

Third largest in the state for the last few years, currently rated 2nd largest in the state afaik. I remember when they didn't have a single seat.

Rated 2nd largest in what election?

Odhinn

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Rated 2nd largest in what election?

I never mentioned election results. Obviously the 2nd largest remark refers to the poll mentioned here.


"The latest Red C poll published in today's ‘Business Post’ recorded a surge in support for Sinn Féin heading into the final week of campaigning - with the party level with Fianna Fáil, and ahead of Fine Gael for the first time."
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/taoiseach-wants-to-lead-fg-even-if-party-loses-election-and-says-ff-has-a-lot-of-backwoodsmen-38919005.html

JohnnyFlash

Odhinn wrote: »

I never mentioned election results. Obviously the 2nd largest remark refers to the poll mentioned here.


"The latest Red C poll published in today's ‘Business Post’ recorded a surge in support for Sinn Féin heading into the final week of campaigning - with the party level with Fianna Fáil, and ahead of Fine Gael for the first time."
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/taoiseach-wants-to-lead-fg-even-if-party-loses-election-and-says-ff-has-a-lot-of-backwoodsmen-38919005.html

Would you be in favour of SF going into government? If so, with which party?

endainoz

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Would you be in favour of SF going into government? If so, with which party?

You seem to keep asking this question constantly, what's up with that?

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nobody was predicting that FF would see the light of day again. They got severely punished that's all.

The electorate is very fickle because we never vote on anything long term. Even FG/Lab got hit in the previous election because people were inpatient for recovery in a few short years.

I thought it was unfair on labour particularly as people expected that as a minor coalition partner that they could deliver their whole agenda instead of valuing then on what they could do. They're was an expectation that they should bring the government down on the first thing that their voters didn't get.

We were building 90k houses before the crash. But which parties are promoting sustainable building now?

People lost faith in Kenny's FG because they did not do what they promised, (no more quangos, cronyism, change the way we do business).
Then the next government said 'Hey, FF, not so bad, stability!'. FG put them back in the public eye quicker.
Labour got hammered because people have lower expectations of FG. Labour sold themselves out FG were being FG.

JohnnyFlash

endainoz wrote: »

You seem to keep asking this question constantly, what's up with that?

I’m interested in seeing if SF supporters actually want to go into government, and, if so, which of the two parties they’d prefer to go into coalition with.

SafeSurfer

Odhinn wrote: »

I never mentioned election results. Obviously the 2nd largest remark refers to the poll mentioned here.


"The latest Red C poll published in today's ‘Business Post’ recorded a surge in support for Sinn Féin heading into the final week of campaigning - with the party level with Fianna Fáil, and ahead of Fine Gael for the first time."
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/taoiseach-wants-to-lead-fg-even-if-party-loses-election-and-says-ff-has-a-lot-of-backwoodsmen-38919005.html

I ask because you rated SF 2nd in a poll in which they came joint first. The natural Sinn Fein inferiority complex shining through.

Odhinn

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Would you be in favour of SF going into government? If so, with which party?

As a majority party, either. As a minority party neither, tbh. I'm not sure the numbers add up for a coalition of the left/independents.

Odhinn

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I ask because you rated SF 2nd in a poll in which they came joint first. The natural Sinn Fein inferiority complex shining through.

We shinners remember when we didn't have an ass in our trousers tis true.

SafeSurfer

Odhinn wrote: »

We shinners remember when we didn't have an ass in our trousers tis true.

Took the bit of private education and move to more closely mirror Fianna Fáil to get up to the heady heights of no.2.

endainoz

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Took the bit of private education and move to more closely mirror Fianna Fáil to get up to the heady heights of no.2.

The butthurt is strong with this one.

gormdubhgorm

maccored wrote: »

theres posters of Charlie Flanagan around laois getting defaced because of the RIC debacle and locals can tell you it isnt shinners doing it. the locals are disgusted by their td

i think all you've really done is shown how off the mark you are in your observations - and of course how very very stereotypical your thinking seems to be. your post does indeed say a lot about you

I have have met many of these stereotype SF supporters that is the main SF demographic in Dublin. It is never going to be in the more leafier suburbs. let's call a spade a spade.
The SF strategy is clear -
1) Distant themselves from the troubles
2) Feminise the party candidates
3) Try and attract the youth vote
4) Try and move on from the working class base

How many professional middle classes in Dublin have you ever met that vote SF?
Be honest at with yourself at least.
Because there is always at least a grain of truth in every stereotype.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have have met many of these stereotype SF supporters that is the main SF demographic in Dublin. It is never going to be in the more leafier suburbs. let's call a spade a spade.
The SF strategy is clear -
1) Distant themselves from the troubles
2) Feminise the party candidates
3) Try and attract the youth vote
4) Try and move on from the working class base

How many professional middle classes in Dublin have you ever met that vote SF?
Be honest at with yourself at least.
Because there is always at least a grain of truth in every stereotype.

Is this some kind of weird agenda to embarrass or stigmatise people who vote SF?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this some kind of weird agenda to embarrass or stigmatise people who vote SF?

No I am just stating the truth of it.
Until SF expand thier support base they will never be taken seriously in the ROI and not only that - the serious traditional parties (FF/FG/Labour) will not want to go into collation with SF. Because thier main element of support, are the element that hark back to the shadier aspects of SF.
I can see that SF are slowly trying to cleanse themselves of this element, they have do the long game and play it step by step.

If you read my posts you would know I have voted for SF in the Presidential election 2011 and voted for SF at local council level. But I have never voted for a SF candiate to be TD. For the reasons above in my opening paragraph.
Many other people in the ROI feel the same way. It might be unpalatable to you but it is the truth. SF are still a sullied party trying to cleanse itself and be taken seriously in the ROI. I wouldn't trust them to be given any power in the dail as a result.

Sierra Oscar

I actually think it's the other way around down the country anyway. Some people like the idea of voting Sinn Féin and say they will never vote Fianna Fáil / Fine Gael again, but on the day they end up voting for their local Fianna Fáil / Fine Gael candidate because those are the ones they know in the community. Individual constituency polls that the party's commission themselves are always at odds with the national polls for this very reason. When you ask someone what party they are voting for, Sinn Féin poll higher than when you ask what person they are voting for in an individual constituency.

SafeSurfer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have have met many of these stereotype SF supporters that is the main SF demographic in Dublin. It is never going to be in the more leafier suburbs. let's call a spade a spade.
The SF strategy is clear -
1) Distant themselves from the troubles
2) Feminise the party candidates
3) Try and attract the youth vote
4) Try and move on from the working class base

How many professional middle classes in Dublin have you ever met that vote SF?
Be honest at with yourself at least.
Because there is always at least a grain of truth in every stereotype.

There are some very traditional Sinn Fein supporters too. From the school of thought that see the pro Treaty side as traitors and Fianna Fáil as traitors for ultimately taking the oath and entering the Dail.
They are in the Mc Sweeney mould. The veterans who never took an IRA pension because they didn’t recognize the state. There were neighbours of mine, very hard working, decent people, who never drew dole or children’s allowance because they never accepted the legitimacy of the state.

Edgware

SafeSurfer wrote: »

There are some very traditional Sinn Fein supporters too. From the school of thought that see the pro Treaty side as traitors and Fianna Fáil as traitors for ultimately taking the oath and entering the Dail.
They are in the Mc Sweeney mould. The veterans who never took an IRA pension because they didn’t recognize the state. There were neighbours of mine, very hard working, decent people, who never drew dole or children’s allowance because they never accepted the legitimacy of the state.

We had a few gob****es like that too.

McMurphy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have have met many of these stereotype SF supporters that is the main SF demographic in Dublin. It is never going to be in the more leafier suburbs. let's call a spade a spade.
The SF strategy is clear -
1) Distant themselves from the troubles
2) Feminise the party candidates
3) Try and attract the youth vote
4) Try and move on from the working class base

How many professional middle classes in Dublin have you ever met that vote SF?
Be honest at with yourself at least.
Because there is always at least a grain of truth in every stereotype.

**Holds hand up**

Ronaldinho

Reading the SF proposal on income tax and I'm struggling to understand the proposed 'levy on individual incomes above 140k'. It goes on to say that tax credits are removed from individual incomes above 140k, tapered at a rate of 2.5% for every 1,000 above 140k.

So effectively, tax increase kicks in at 100k??

maccored

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have have met many of these stereotype SF supporters that is the main SF demographic in Dublin. It is never going to be in the more leafier suburbs. let's call a spade a spade.
The SF strategy is clear -
1) Distant themselves from the troubles
2) Feminise the party candidates
3) Try and attract the youth vote
4) Try and move on from the working class base

How many professional middle classes in Dublin have you ever met that vote SF?
Be honest at with yourself at least.
Because there is always at least a grain of truth in every stereotype.

I dont work in dublin or associate with people there but Ive met many middle classes elsewhere who do. We'll see how the election pans out and then you can tell me who votes for them or who doesnt.

maccored

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I actually think it's the other way around down the country anyway. Some people like the idea of voting Sinn Féin and say they will never vote Fianna Fáil / Fine Gael again, but on the day they end up voting for their local Fianna Fáil / Fine Gael candidate because those are the ones they know in the community. Individual constituency polls that the party's commission themselves are always at odds with the national polls for this very reason. When you ask someone what party they are voting for, Sinn Féin poll higher than when you ask what person they are voting for in an individual constituency.

Article on the Red C website -https://www.redcresearch.ie/general-election-2020-younger-voters-flock-to-sinn-fein/

Among those over 45, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil continue to perform strongly, with Fianna Fáil particularly strong among the oldest age groups aged over 55. But among younger voters, Sinn Fein has seen a level of performance that we haven’t seen for some time. Not just in the very young age group, where we have seen strong support in polls not materialise in votes in the past; but even among those aged over 30 and under 45, who are much more likely to ultimately do end up voting.

mariaalice

They do have middle-class support among the younger voter.

If they do will its hard to see how they can square the circle of keeping happy their disaffected working-class voter base, republican elements, combined with the middle-class concerns of their new supporters.

It will be interesting.

spurious

maccored wrote: »

I dont work in dublin or associate with people there but Ive met many middle classes elsewhere who do. We'll see how the election pans out and then you can tell me who votes for them or who doesnt.

That has always been the problem SF have. Their voters talk the big talk but don't get out and vote on the day.

No loss really.