People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

intellectual dosser

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's gas. Could you imaging many years after a peace treaty one side using incidents to score points on another in a modern political argument?

What peace treaty was signed after Paul Quinn's murder?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Remind me if I can get this right.

We can't talk about Paul Quinn being beaten to death in a barn in 2007 by ten good republicans because we can't talk about victims, yet it is ok to talk about all the victims who lost their jobs because of the FF bailout a year later?

The republican hypocrisy stinks.

So others can raise the Miami Showband and numerous others and we wallow in the past because FG/FG are incompetent today, seems fair enough.
You said IRA earlier are you diluting it as you go or what?

James Brown

intellectual dosser wrote: »

What peace treaty was signed after Paul Quinn's murder?

None I'd imagine. Are you suggesting Mr. Quinn was murdered by Sinn Fein or Seamus Mallon? I'd report that.

FrancieBrady

intellectual dosser wrote: »

What peace treaty was signed after Paul Quinn's murder?

There have been 100's of murders since the GFA. Former IRA members have been involved in some of them.

What is required of SF here eludes me, when the family, locals and the IMC know who was involved. Has SF saying they know too got some extra legal weight?
Is it required of SF to say they are responsible?

What is it that is required here?

James Brown

Are folk getting nervous about ML getting into the debate? Relax lads.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The two lads will be tripping over each other trying to throw digs all she need do is keep her cool.
Bit unfair SF get one representative and the other party get two

In fairness though SF get to have two parties who behave very differently in two different jurisdictions. Completely different strategies and leaders!

But I agree what you said is right if Mary Lou keeps the head down and lets FF/FG fire the bullets they could knock each other out.
However, Mary Lou will never be as good as Gerry was at it -
"With respect (insert name here) let me ons-sor yer question woth a question..." was his favourite line and off he would go. Original question completely forgotten about 10 minutes latter.
Brilliant at dodging bullets both real and metaphorical.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness though SF get to have two parties who behave very differently in two different jurisdictions. Completely different strategies and leaders!

But I agree what you said is right if Mary Lou keeps the head down and lets FF/FG fire the bullets they could knock each other out.
However, Mary Lou will never be as good as Gerry was at it -
"With respect (insert name here) let me ons-sor yer question woth a question..." was his favourite line and off he would go. Original question completely forgotten about 10 minutes latter.
Brilliant at dodging bullets both real and metaphorical.

Yes, FF/FG support one.
Are you making light of an Irish politician getting shot at? You must be one of those shinner supporters people keep describing.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes, FF/FG support one.
Are you making light of an Irish politician getting shot at? You must be one of those shinner supporters people keep describing.

I don't see why you are getting so defensive. It is a relevant turn of phrase/analogy as Gerry Adams was an excellent debater up there with Bertie Ahern and the top tier politicians. Nothing ever stuck.

Odhinn

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are folk getting nervous about ML getting into the debate? Relax lads.

Ye know yerself - SF cause more terror amongst the establishment now than they did during the armed struggle.

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yes, FF/FG support one.
Are you making light of an Irish politician getting shot at? You must be one of those shinner supporters people keep describing.

If it's a joke about a SF politician getting shot at that's worthy of a 'like' by some you'll notice.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

Ye know yerself - SF cause more terror amongst the establishment now than they did during the armed struggle.

I think it is more amusing than anything.
As SF ARE the establishment up in NI being paid by a British Queen.
In the ROI SF claim to be anti-establishment trying to unseat an Irish Queen!

But neither Labour/FF/FG want to go into collation with SF they have made that much clear.
So what alternative do SF have more hurler on the ditch stuff?

SF's image problem just won't go away which is why people 'like' SF candidates but won't vote SF and the cycle continues.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it's a joke about a SF politician getting shot at that's worthy of a 'like' by some you'll notice.

As is calling anyone who votes SF 'stupid'.
The faux outrage is beyond hypocrite level and becoming boredom inducing.

FrancieBrady

Odhinn wrote: »

Ye know yerself - SF cause more terror amongst the establishment now than they did during the armed struggle.

I think the terror comes from knowing what is going to have to happen to keep SF out of government. The merging of two old pretend 'enemies' who conspired to swap power between them for 100 years.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the terror comes from knowing what is going to have to happen to keep SF out of government. The merging of two old pretend 'enemies' who conspired to swap power between them for 100 years.

Conspiracy theory Francie?
Not like you .

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the terror comes from knowing what is going to have to happen to keep SF out of government. The merging of two old pretend 'enemies' who conspired to swap power between them for 100 years.

To be honest Francie I think SF are kind of like the way Ireland were in the Eurovision once upon a time. They don't really want to win it. It will cost them way too much.
They would lose hardcore support through the inevitable compromises they would have to make. Plus they would no longer be able to claim to be anti-establishment after that. They could easily go the way of the Greens and Labour when they were the junior partner in government.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

To be honest Francie I think SF are kind of like the way Ireland were in the Eurovision once upon a time. They don't really want to win it. It will cost them way too much.
They would lose hardcore support through the inevitable compromises they would have to make. Plus they would no longer be able to claim to be anti-establishment after that. They could easily go the way of the Greens and Labour when they were the junior partner in government.

FG nor FF have ever delivered the contents of a manifesto (hence my cynicism about them) but still remained contenders in elections.

If SF deliver fairer government then there is no reason why they won't be a contender in elections.

'Hardcore supporters' exist for all parties. Ever gone to a FG branch Dinner Dance or a FF one? Hardcore is not the word that springs to mind.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Conspiracy theory Francie?
Not like you .

Hardly. Are you familiar with FF/FG? It's a broadly shared opinion based on political history.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

To be honest Francie I think SF are kind of like the way Ireland were in the Eurovision once upon a time. They don't really want to win it. It will cost them way too much.
They would lose hardcore support through the inevitable compromises they would have to make. Plus they would no longer be able to claim to be anti-establishment after that. They could easily go the way of the Greens and Labour when they were the junior partner in government.

In that analogy Varadkar would be Louis Walsh. Happy to get his mug out there in the hopes of getting work abroad, win or lose.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Conspiracy theory Francie?
Not like you .

No conspiracy...just two parties so used to doing what they do, they don't see it.

Many of the electorate do...they see them as one and the same.

endainoz

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No conspiracy...just two parties so used to doing what they do, they don't see it.

Many of the electorate do...they see them as one and the same.

Imagine the meltdown they'll have if Sinn Fein lead the polls tonight!

Bishop of hope

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Hardly. Are you familiar with FF/FG? It's a broadly shared opinion based on political history.

That they conspired to swap power?
I do wonder about some of you SF lads sometimes.
I could see that as a possibility now, but not through the years.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That they conspired to swap power?
I do wonder about some of you SF lads sometimes.
I could see that as a possibility now, but not through the years.

RTE having to cave in today is all you need to know here BoH.

The arrogant assumption it will be one or the other can no longer be made.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Hardly. Are you familiar with FF/FG? It's a broadly shared opinion based on political history.

But SF are lucky that FF/FG are not the one party as they would be a fair stronger outfit as a result. It basically splits the same vote into a personality contest.

They already had the confidence agreement the next step will be full on collation.
The final step will be the unification of FF/FG.
It is more likelihood of that happening than a United Ireland I think.

In fairness to FG and FF at least they achieved thier main aims at one time or another. SF's main aims of a United Ireland and strong/widely used Irish language are merely aspirational rather than achievable in most peoples lifetimes.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RTE having to cave in today is all you need to know here BoH.

The arrogant assumption it will be one or the other can no longer be made.

I agree with you there, I always thought it was unfair.
But the biggest Conspiracy is in SF, they're trying to become FF clones while wearing labour clothes.
Funny MMMD isn't demanding the other leaders are included, there could be several of them perhaps with a better chance of being in Govt than her if FF FG, "conspire" to keep SF out?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I agree with you there, I always thought it was unfair.
But the biggest Conspiracy is in SF, they're trying to become FF clones while wearing labour clothes.

Not sure I'd have had a huge problem with FF before the Galway Tent and Charvet shirts brigade took over.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But SF are lucky that FF/FG are not the one party as they would be a fair stronger outfit as a result. It basically splits the same vote into a personality contest.

They already had the confidence agreement the next step will be full on collation.
The final step will be the unification of FF/FG.
It is more likelihood of that happening than a United Ireland I think.

In fairness to FG and FF at least they achieved thier main aims at one time or another. SF's main aims of a United Ireland and strong/widely used Irish language are merely aspirational rather than achievable in most peoples lifetimes.

A constitutional claim existed in our constitution since independence. How did FF and FG do on that?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A constitutional claim existed in our constitution since independence. How did FF and FG do on that?

Ah sure it was down the list of priorities.
Sure wasn't Cosgrave trying to stop the Free State from being ripped to bits, never mind adding bits on to it. Dev was busy crossing his fingers taking his oath to a monarch and later writing a constitution etc etc

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That they conspired to swap power?
I do wonder about some of you SF lads sometimes.
I could see that as a possibility now, but not through the years.

They work to block a third option IMO. Swapping power is the result obviously.
I'm not a SF lad but will be giving them a vote.

endainoz wrote: »

Imagine the meltdown they'll have if Sinn Fein lead the polls tonight!

After the last election, the then FG Independent had a headline along the lines of 'We voted for chaos' and it was all doom and gloom and the sky falling.
One thing you can count on is it getting nastier the more popular SF get.
Jokes about shooting, bombing, fake outrage about other killings ner a word relating to people dying on hospital trolleys, dying due to slow or incorrect cervical tests or the record breaking number of children homeless. More interested in insulting anyone who might support SF.

Edgware

One thing. If SF are so great why are 76 % not going to vote for them according to the polls

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

One thing. If SF are so great why are 76 % not going to vote for them according to the polls

'You think you're great. I know I am. Well if you're so great....'

Have you seen FF/FG combined? Hardly a ringing endorsement from the public now or even last election.
There'll be a few elections with many parties on middling support before we are rid of FF/FG in government I'd imagine.