People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

smurgen

Thread title looking wrong !

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

Remind me if I can get this right.

We can't talk about Paul Quinn being beaten to death in a barn in 2007 by ten good republicans because we can't talk about victims, yet it is ok to talk about all the victims who lost their jobs because of the FF bailout a year later?

The republican hypocrisy stinks.

Which ten good Republicans?
They certainly weren't member of the PIRA, because that organisation was disbanded years before.

They might have been dissidents or members of the INLA or some other republican paramilitary group that still exists but SF have been very clear in condemning them. There is no love lost between SF and those groups and that has been the case for a very long time now.

As I understand it, and please correct me if I have it wrong, Paul Quin got into an altercation with the son of an ex-IRA man and punched him. For that he was beaten to death. If I knew who did I would be more than willing to give names, there was no excuse for that murder but despite your protestations it was not carried out by the IRA it was carried out by thugs that might have been previous members of the IRA or associated with them. I'm pretty sure that names have been given, but without evidence, or witnesses willing to stand up in court what can the police do?

I do not condone that sort of behaviour at all, and neither would I support any candidate in this election that did. But the fact remains none of the the candidate in this election were involved, and none could be held responsible for what was a private vendetta unrelated to politics or the troubles. It was simply a gang of thugs taking the 'law' into their own hands.

So do I still intend to vote SF, YES, and will do so until you or someone else can provide evidence that would stand up in a court.

I dont think people realise that by using scare tactics, and constantly trying to associate the current SF candidates for past events where many were not even born, is only reinforcing people commitment to vote for SF. If all you have is scare tactics and slurs then there has got to be something very wrong with the party you support or represent.

If you want people to change their mind and not vote SF why not try reasoned argument about their policies and show that policies by alternative parties are better.

SF might not be great in government, that is yet to be proved one way or another, but what has been proved without a shadow of doubt is that both FG and FF have been totally incompetent in government on numerous occasions and have totally ignored what the electorate have been saying to them for well over a decade or two now.
Not once have either party actually kept the promises made or delivered on the program for government that they were elected to carry out.

endainoz

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/02/03/latest-poll-shows-public-hate-fianna-fail-fine-gael-so-much-they-might-accidentally-end-up-with-coalition-of-forward-thinking-progressive-parties-with-publics-best-interest-at-heart/

maccored

efanton wrote: »

Which ten good Republicans?
They certainly weren't member of the PIRA, because that organisation was disbanded years before.

They might have been dissidents or members of the INLA or some other republican paramilitary group that still exists but SF have been very clear in condemning them. There is no love lost between SF and those groups and that has been the case for a very long time now.

As I understand it, and please correct me if I have it wrong, Paul Quin got into an altercation with the son of an ex-IRA man and punched him. For that he was beaten to death. If I knew who did I would be more than willing to give names, there was no excuse for that murder but despite your protestations it was not carried out by the IRA it was carried out by thugs that might have been previous members of the IRA or associated with them. I'm pretty sure that names have been given, but without evidence, or witnesses willing to stand up in court what can the police do?

I do not condone that sort of behaviour at all, and neither would I support any candidate in this election that did. But the fact remains none of the the candidate in this election were involved, and none could be held responsible for what was a private vendetta unrelated to politics or the troubles. It was simply a gang of thugs taking the 'law' into their own hands.

So do I still intend to vote SF, YES, and will do so until you or someone else can provide evidence that would stand up in a court.

I dont think people realise that by using scare tactics, and constantly trying to associate the current SF candidates for past events where many were not even born, is only reinforcing people commitment to vote for SF. If all you have is scare tactics and slurs then there has got to be something very wrong with the party you support or represent.

If you want people to change their mind and not vote SF why not try reasoned argument about their polices and show that policies by alternative parties are better.

SF might not be great in government, that is yet to be proved one way or another, but what has been proved without a shadow of doubt is that both FG and FF have been totally incompetent in government on numerous occasions and have totally ignored what the electorate have been saying to them for well over a decade or two now.
Not once have either party actually kept the promises made or delivered on the program for government that they were elected to carry out.

be careful - using logic confuses them sometimes

Bishop of hope

ricero wrote: »

Very proud of the younger generations who are waking up and abandoning the ff/fg monopoly.

They're fed up, and rightly so, with the state of things.
There is a new era of politics where govts will be judged on their performance and if its not up to scratch you'll be voted out.
These newer type of voters have no political loyalty and if they elect a Govt this time that doesent perform and keep their promises then they will be voted out next time.

Fann Linn

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They're fed up, and rightly so, with the state of things.
There is a new era of politics where govts will be judged on their performance and if its not up to scratch you'll be voted out.
These newer type of voters have no political loyalty and if they elect a Govt this time that doesent perform and keep their promises then they will be voted out next time.

The way it should be.

Aidric

ricero wrote: »

Very proud of the younger generations who are waking up and abandoning the ff/fg monopoly.

Fann Linn wrote: »

I hope so. They got out for gay marriage, abortion etc. Time now to get out one more time now that Leo has given them that Saturday opportunity.

I'd be wary of putting too much credence in opinion polls. I'd also be wary of drawing parallels to the referendum votes. They were singular issues backed by very effective campaigns and rightly carried.

A general election is much more than a singular issue. A protest voter in an opinion poll might not transfer to the ballot on reflection.

Fann Linn

Aidric wrote: »

I'd be wary of putting too much credence in opinion polls. I'd also be wary of drawing parallels to the referendum votes. They were singular issues backed by very effective campaigns and rightly carried.

A general election is much more than a singular issue. A protest voter in an opinion poll might not transfer to the ballot on reflection.

My point exactly. That is why I hope they buck the trend this time.

Bishop of hope

Fann Linn wrote: »

The way it should be.

No argument from me there, but you get so many lads on threads like this decrying this loyalty for other party's while pushing the party their obvious loyalty lies with.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No argument from me there, but you get so many lads on threads like this decrying this loyalty for other party's while pushing the party their obvious loyalty lies with.

Indeed. Not that it matters. At the end of the day it's the polices and issues over the little jokey digs IMO.
SD, SF, both have similar housing policies and that's the biggest issue.
It's like the way FF and FG are interchangeable on the cronyism.

Edgware

Looking like it will be F.G.s turn to kneel down before F.F.

Snow Garden

Could Dobbo have been any less biased in that Mary Lou interview earlier?

Idbatterim

THIS is comedy. These two shower of morons for the first time having to think “ fcuk maybe we cant get away with doing nothing anymore “ I actually hope sf get in at this rate. I know what proven failure looks like. I’ll take the chance

Bishop of hope

Idbatterim wrote: »

THIS is comedy. These two shower of morons for the first time having to think “ fcuk ‘atbe we cant get away with doing nothing anymore “ I actually hope sf get in at this rate. I know what proven failure looks like. I’ll take the chance

I never doubted it.

efanton

Snow Garden wrote: »

Could Dobbo have been any less biased in that Mary Lou interview earlier?

The answer to that would of course have to be yes.

RTE need to cop on. They are crying about TV license money, and yet are driving their viewing audience away at the same time. People dont want to pay for a RTE TV license not because they are not willing to pay for good entertainment, but precisely because of it. Most find they get more value for money from the like of Netfix, Amazon and Youtube and that why RTE audience rating are dropping.

For a long time now RTE has been very biased and unwilling to change.
Extinction is the result of not adapting quickly enough and that exactly where they are heading.

Idbatterim

efanton wrote: »

The answer to that would of course have to be yes.

RTE need to cop on. They are crying about TV license money, and yet are driving their viewing audience away at the same time. People dont want to pay for a RTE TV license not because they are not willing to pay for good entertainment, but precisely because of it. Most find they get more value for money from the like of Netfix, Amazon and Youtube and that why RTE audience rating are dropping.

For a long time now RTE has been very biased and unwilling to change.
Extinction is the result of not adapting quickly enough and that exactly where they are heading.

Sf should propose rte license fee abolition. Well off parasites robbing a living !

maccored

Snow Garden wrote: »

Could Dobbo have been any less biased in that Mary Lou interview earlier?

going by the comments on the facebook stream, it totally backfired. whatever he was trying to do, didn't work as ML is getting all the sympathy.

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Looking like it will be F.G.s turn to kneel down before F.F.

After MM pledge not to I think it'll be him doing the arse kissing.

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

After MM pledge not to I think it'll be him doing the arse kissing.

Michael Martin has gone all in on getting a decisive lead in this election. If he finishes behind SF in the polls and has to go cap in hand to get into power, the in fighting in FF could be very bloody and interesting.

A while ago he was clinging onto the leadership. This is one of the most unpopular governments in a generation and he has failed to capitalise at the end of the day.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Michael Martin has gone all in on getting a decisive lead in this election. If he finishes behind SF in the polls and has to go cap in hand to get into power, the in fighting in FF could be very bloody and interesting.

A while ago he was clinging onto the leadership. This is one of the most unpopular governments in a generation and he has failed to capitalise at the end of the day.

When you say “behind SF in the polls” do you mean in terms of seats or % vote?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

When you say “behind SF in the polls” do you mean in terms of seats or % vote?

% vote.

Because that will be the story of this election.
He, more than any will be in the dock for it, in grassroots FF eyes.

Imagine, must be the first time in the state's history, they are not the beneficiaries from a FG slump.
Also gives a FG a foothold in any negotiations. Give us what we want or 'feck off and do a deal with SF'.

James Brown

TBF to FF, FG had us all believing FF were the worst thing ever...right up until they needed them to stay in power.
Anything can happen.

efanton

SafeSurfer wrote: »

When you say “behind SF in the polls” do you mean in terms of seats or % vote?

Does it really matter?

Seriously?

FF should be romping home not only to win the General Election but to win with an outright majority in the Dail.

The problem with FF is that they had an opportunity to clean up their house and clean up their politics and they choose to do neither. That guarantees that they will suffer at the polls and that people that voted for them year after year will never vote for them again unless they clean shop.

If the FF party members had any sense after the crash they would have insisted that those that were heavily involved in the decisions that both created the crash and the appalling handling of the subsequent bailout should have stood down and retired from politics completely. Instead not only do they try to keep the very people responsible on their front benches they actually promote one of them to be leader.
In no other party would there be such a state of affairs and the electorate see it as a clear signal that FF are not repentant one bit. FF are just trying to brush it aside as a bit of bad luck and being in the wrong pace at the wrong time.

Martin's days are numbered even if they do win the general election.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

% vote.

Because that will be the story of this election.
He, more than any will be in the dock for it, in grassroots FF eyes.

Imagine, must be the first time in the state's history, they are not the beneficiaries from a FG slump.
Also gives a FG a foothold in any negotiations. Give us what we want or 'feck off and do a deal with SF'.

Fianna Fáil are still likely to end up with as many seats more than SF as SF currently have.

For FF, entering coalition with SF would be Hari Kari.
The vast majority of the electorate do not want Sinn Fein in government.

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF to FF, FG had us all believing FF were the worst thing ever...right up until they needed them to stay in power.
Anything can happen.

They do it all the time. This is the power swap 'conspiracy' in action. At the end of the day 'one of us in power, is what it is all about'.

SafeSurfer

efanton wrote: »

Does it really matter?

Seriously?

FF should be romping home not only to win the General Election but to win with an outright majority in the Dail.

The problem with FF is that they had an opportunity to clean up their house and clean up their politics and they choose to do neither. That guarantees that they will suffer at the polls and that people that voted for them year after year will never vote for them again unless they clean shop.

If the FF party members had any sense after the crash they would have insisted that those that were heavily involved in the decisions that both created the crash and the appalling handling of the subsequent bailout should have stood down and retired from politics completely. Instead not only do they try to keep the very people responsible on their front benches they actually promote one of them to be leader.
In no other party would there be such a state of affairs and the electorate see it as a clear signal that FF are not repentant one bit. FF are just trying to brush it aside as a bit of bad luck and being in the wrong pace at the wrong time.

You are suggesting that FF should be “romping home” with an overall majority?

I really don’t know what to say to that.

The Rape of Lucretia

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fianna Fáil are still likely to end up with as many seats more than SF as SF currently have.

For FF, entering coalition with SF would be Hari Kari.
The vast majority of the electorate do not want Sinn Fein in government.

Yes. People might have preferences amongst the other parties, but not out and out consider them unelectable. For many, SF is simply a toxic party, that is not just not their preference, but truly repulsive.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fianna Fáil are still likely to end up with as many seats more than SF as SF currently have.

For FF, entering coalition with SF would be Hari Kari.
The vast majority of the electorate do not want Sinn Fein in government.

36% is not a vast majority of the electorate.

32% don't want FG in government and 23% don't want FF in government, yet that is what they could end up with.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They do it all the time. This is the power swap 'conspiracy' in action. At the end of the day 'one of us in power, is what it is all about'.

Which, is a very good representation of the desires of the Irish voter, and so a tribute to Ireland's political system. It can change parties without changing politics, or getting involved in fringe, flaky, or extremist options. As you say - as long as one is in power - the great majority of Ireland is content.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are suggesting that FF should be “romping home” with an overall majority?

I really don’t know what to say to that.

Martin has been saying the people will give him an emphatic mandate to lead a government.
They won't on %'s if these polls play out on Saturday.