People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

smurgen

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do folk think Varadkar should apologise for every trolley death, delayed or false cervical check test, drug shooting etc? More valid IMO.

Or backing multiple Garda commissioners that coordinated a sustained slur campaign against a Garda whistleblower that was labelled a paedophile by two government bodies.

Snow Garden

smurgen wrote: »

Or backing multiple Garda commissioners that coordinated a sustained slur campaign against a Garda whistleblower that was labelled a paedophile by two government bodies.

Fair point. The treatment of Garda McCabe by FF and FG governments was nothing short of criminal.
They nearly killed him for exposing the massive corruption within our police force.

marieholmfan

SantaCruz wrote: »

Disgusting, but honest. Fair play I suppose.

By the way, speaking as someone who pays rather a lot of tax already, if Sinn Fein drive out the tech companies by increasing taxes, or increase my personal taxes further, I'm just going to quit this country and take my taxes elsewhere. Good luck getting someone to pay for a house for your nephew in that scenario. Or pay for a health service, or teachers, or anything else.

Every one who pays tax believes that they pay a lot of tax. But feel free to go . One less F G voter and you will probably retire here with no entitlement to services .

SantaCruz

marieholmfan wrote: »

Every one who pays tax believes that they pay a lot of tax. But feel free to go . One less F G voter and you will probably retire here with no entitlement to services .

I paid 30k in December alone.

Chase away your taxpayers and the country is goosed. Look up the Laffer curve before you start measuring your nephew's council house for curtains.

JohnnyFlash

Snow Garden wrote: »

Fair point. The treatment of Garda McCabe by FF and FG governments was nothing short of criminal.
They nearly killed him for exposing the massive corruption within our police force.

Even by the standards on this forum, that is a terribly ill-judged example of whataboutery.

smurgen

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Even by the standards on this forum, that is a terribly ill-judged example of whataboutery.

Not at all. Seems that the establishment only like the gardai while they serve their purpose. If you go against the grain and stand up for the what is right they will bury you.

SantaCruz

smurgen wrote: »

Not at all. Seems that the establishment only like the gardai while they serve their purpose. If you go against the grain and stand up for the what is right they will bury you.

It seems we have a hard time in this country rooting out corruption at the top of organisations. See the FAI for another example.

Snow Garden

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Even by the standards on this forum, that is a terribly ill-judged example of whataboutery.

I have more.

He was only vindicated in October 2018.

McCabe later approached Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, who passed details on to Justice Minister Alan Shatter. Shatter asked for an internal garda inquiry into the penalty points complaints, with Assistant Commissioner John O'Mahoney failing to even interview McCabe. A letter from McCabe, read onto the Oireachtas record, said the way the matter had been handled had "destroyed me, my career and my family".Shatter later wrongly accused McCabe of refusing to co-operate with his inquiry, a claim for which McCabe unsuccessfully sought an apology.

The man was a hero and FFG nearly buried him.

marieholmfan

SantaCruz wrote: »

It seems we have a hard time in this country rooting out corruption at the top of organisations. See the FAI for another example.

Surely Varadkar as minister for sport must sorted that out!

SantaCruz

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have more.

He was only vindicated in October 2018.

McCabe later approached Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, who passed details on to Justice Minister Alan Shatter. Shatter asked for an internal garda inquiry into the penalty points complaints, with Assistant Commissioner John O'Mahoney failing to even interview McCabe. A letter from McCabe, read onto the Oireachtas record, said the way the matter had been handled had "destroyed me, my career and my family".Shatter later wrongly accused McCabe of refusing to co-operate with his inquiry, a claim for which McCabe unsuccessfully sought an apology.

The man was a hero and FFG nearly buried him.

Shatter asked for an internal garda inquiry into the penalty points complaints, with Assistant Commissioner John O'Mahoney failing to even interview McCabe.

Sounds to me like it was the Gardai who nearly buried him.

marieholmfan

SantaCruz wrote: »

I paid 30k in December alone.

Chase away your taxpayers and the country is goosed. Look up the Laffer curve before you start measuring your nephew's council house for curtains.

Laffer curve is voodoo economics. What did you pay in November?

It wasn't 30K!

SantaCruz

marieholmfan wrote: »

Surely Varadkar as minister for sport must sorted that out!

Do you know anything about this history of political interference in national football associations? Something else for you to look into.

It's also worth pointing out that the government no more controls the FAI than they do your local bridge club. All they can do is withold taxpayers' money.

smurgen

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have more.

He was only vindicated in October 2018.

McCabe later approached Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, who passed details on to Justice Minister Alan Shatter. Shatter asked for an internal garda inquiry into the penalty points complaints, with Assistant Commissioner John O'Mahoney failing to even interview McCabe. A letter from McCabe, read onto the Oireachtas record, said the way the matter had been handled had "destroyed me, my career and my family".Shatter later wrongly accused McCabe of refusing to co-operate with his inquiry, a claim for which McCabe unsuccessfully sought an apology.

The man was a hero and FFG nearly buried him.

Nearly drove the man to suicide of penalty points. The party of law and order my hole!

SantaCruz

marieholmfan wrote: »

Laffer curve is voodoo economics.

Can you explain this statement please?

marieholmfan wrote: »

What did you pay in November?

It wasn't 30K!

This is true, it was a lot less than that.

Snow Garden

SantaCruz wrote: »

Sounds to me like it was the Gardai who nearly buried him.

No, the Gardaí were much too busy faking breath tests.

1,450,000 of them.

SantaCruz

Snow Garden wrote: »

No, the Gardaí were much too busy faking breath tests.

1,450,000 of them.

And NOBODY held accountable for that either. The Gardai are rotten with corruption. Just about only thing they don't do is accept cash bribes.

marieholmfan

SantaCruz wrote: »

Can you explain this statement please?

This is true, it was a lot less than that.

You obviously had a good year . I'm sure you were shrewd and hard working and perhaps you were lucky . I hope you have an even better year this year and an even better bonus.


The Laffer curve is widely regarded as having been discredited by the experience of the USA in the Reagan era. See peddling prosperity by Paul Krugman and loads of other books I am sure. The term Voodoo economics is a quote from George Bush used in the film

Snow Garden

Snow Garden wrote: »

No, the Gardaí were much too busy faking breath tests.

1,450,000 of them.

Apologies, it was 1,900,000 faked breath tests. The report found half a million more.

Nobody was held responsible.

SantaCruz

marieholmfan wrote: »

You obviously had a good year . I'm sure you were shrewd and hard working and perhaps you were lucky . I hope you have an even better year this year and an even better bonus.


The Laffer curve is widely regarded as having been discredited by the experience of the USA in the Reagan era. See peddling prosperity by Paul Krugman and loads of other books I am sure. The term Voodoo economics is a quote from George Bush used in the film

Ah, I see what you mean.

What they were trying to do in the US was cut taxes - with any justification going. The Laffer curve has certainly been discredited in that direction. But increasing taxes: I think it's self evident that as you increase marginal taxes over 50% (and that is where we are)

1. You drive high earners out of the country (we live in a union of 450 million people now, and of course there's the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand...
2. You drive businesses out of the country (a dozen or so companies pay 50% of all our corporation tax - bye bye Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft...)
3. People who could work more and earn more see no point, so work less and pay less
4. People are not motivated to upskill, work hard in school or college (as your outcomes are the same either way)

...and so on. Net result: a poorer country with a smaller tax take to spend on services, and a massive brain drain.

efanton

SantaCruz wrote: »

Ah, I see what you mean.

What they were trying to do in the US was cut taxes - with any justification going. The Laffer curve has certainly been discredited in that direction. But increasing taxes: I think it's self evident that as you increase marginal taxes over 50% (and that is where we are)

1. You drive high earners out of the country (we live in a union of 450 million people now, and of course there's the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand...
2. You drive businesses out of the country (a dozen or so companies pay 50% of all our corporation tax - bye bye Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft...)
3. People who could work more and earn more see no point, so work less and pay less
4. People are not motivated to upskill, work hard in school or college (as your outcomes are the same either way)

...and so on. Net result: a poorer country with a smaller tax take to spend on services, and a massive brain drain.

You really need to get the concept.
CORPORATION TAX = a tax companies pay on their profits
INCOME TAX = a tax an INDIVIDUAL pays on their income or means of generating wealth

You could put income tax up to 60% and companies wouldn't give two hoots.
They will not be paying that tax.
I'm not suggest that it be set at that either.

Touching the corporation tax is a different thing entirely, but I am unaware of any party that has advocated that. Adjust the corporation tax and you directly impact on a companies profit margin, and that is bad for business, bad for jobs and bad for our economy. Every party gets that which is why it has never been played with.

joseywhales

Sinn Fein understand that capital markets do not care about "fairness" right?
Making money is not a popularity contest.

James Brown

SantaCruz wrote: »

Yes, Irish doctors and nurses are terrorists working for Varadkar. Great point.

So no. And the lads beat that chap didn't work for ML.

James Brown

SantaCruz wrote: »

Do you know anything about this history of political interference in national football associations? Something else for you to look into.

It's also worth pointing out that the government no more controls the FAI than they do your local bridge club. All they can do is withold taxpayers' money.

I know Varadker did f*** all in his career and his supporters give the impression ministers are mere figureheads.

joseywhales

efanton wrote: »

You really need to get the concept.
CORPORATION TAX = a tax companies pay on their profits
INCOME TAX = a tax an INDIVIDUAL pays on their income or means of generating wealth

You could put income tax up to 60% and companies wouldn't give two hoots.
They will not be paying that tax.
I'm not suggest that it be set at that either.

Touching the corporation tax is a different thing entirely, but I am unaware of any party that has advocated that. Adjust the corporation tax and you directly impact on a companies profit margin, and that is bad for business, bad for jobs and bad for our economy. Every party gets that which is why it has never been played with.

Lets use an example here:
You have a high earning job, say 400k, you are head of a research team at microsoft.

You are irish, you want to live here and have a family here.
You are very hard to replace for microsoft so you convince them to let you work here, even though the rest of the team is in Seattle but they trust you
You write a proposal, to form a sub team here in ireland employing 5 after 5 years 10 after 10, of irish people with the potential to reach your level and earning power.

Now imagine you increase the marginal income tax rate, none of the above happens, you decide it is not worth living in Ireland, you stay in Seattle and pay average 35% income tax, the country loses hundreds of thousands in taxes and intellectual property and high value jobs.

That is the cost,fine if you think it is worth it.

cosybeach

joseywhales wrote: »

Lets use an example here:
You have a high earning job, say 400k, you are head of a research team at microsoft.

You are irish, you want to live here and have a family here.
You are very hard to replace for microsoft so you convince them to let you work here, even though the rest of the team is in Seattle but they trust you
You write a proposal, to form a sub team here in ireland employing 5 after 5 years 10 after 10, of irish people with the potential to reach your level and earning power.

Now imagine you increase the marginal income tax rate, none of the above happens, you decide it is not worth living in Ireland, you stay in Seattle and pay average 35% income tax, the country loses hundreds of thousands in taxes and intellectual property and high value jobs.

That is the cost,fine if you think it is worth it.

Yes but taking care of Margaret Cash and her elk have more votes we need to let them bunch up the country we are already €200B in debt and highly taxed with poor services.

IMF will come in tackle the SW economy costing €20b the high paid senior PS + pension time bomb and reform our self regulated legal system behind the comp culture.
EU wants us to increase corpo tax if we do voluntarily there is no going back.:)

Edgware

joseywhales wrote: »

Lets use an example here:
You have a high earning job, say 400k, you are head of a research team at microsoft.

You are irish, you want to live here and have a family here.
You are very hard to replace for microsoft so you convince them to let you work here, even though the rest of the team is in Seattle but they trust you
You write a proposal, to form a sub team here in ireland employing 5 after 5 years 10 after 10, of irish people with the potential to reach your level and earning power.

Now imagine you increase the marginal income tax rate, none of the above happens, you decide it is not worth living in Ireland, you stay in Seattle and pay average 35% income tax, the country loses hundreds of thousands in taxes and intellectual property and high value jobs.

That is the cost,fine if you think it is worth it.

Stop stop stop.
We can't have that type of sensible talk here.
What about the poor? We have to tax the fat cats Joe

johnmcdnl

efanton wrote: »

You could put income tax up to 60% and companies wouldn't give two hoots.
They will not be paying that tax.
I'm not suggest that it be set at that either.

Will they care when they have massive labour shortages and can't find any potential employees either here in Ireland, nor can they attract anyone from overseas due to the high tax rates.
So in order to attract staff they'll have to increase salaries. They'll pay for that even if they don't pay the income tax.

smurgen

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Will they care when they have massive labour shortages and can't find any potential employees either here in Ireland, nor can they attract anyone from overseas due to the high tax rates.
So in order to attract staff they'll have to increase salaries. They'll pay for that even if they don't pay the income tax.

They're finding it hard to attract employees over housing but I don't see that being mentioned.

johnmcdnl

smurgen wrote: »

They're finding it hard to attract employees over housing but I don't see that being mentioned.

?

Why is that relevant to discuss or mention when addressing comments suggesting that a company wouldn't give a hoot to large increases in income tax.


But as you've mentioned it, if anything it would be even more of a reason to not to jack up income tax rates right now.
You'd go from having high housing costs , to having high housing costs AND high taxes overnight, with the hope that maybe in a few years housing costs would be less.

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sadly, none of this, once again, pathetic exploitation of a victim is going to bring her son back.

I think once she realised she was wrong it was genuine shock (it was visible) she was wrong and she accepted it.

Pathetic exploitation of a victim would be blackening the victim's name, calling them or their families liars, posing as intermediaries between the victims and the IRA while actually providing shelter to the perpetrators.

I was actually talking about Maria Cahill here, but it would be equally applicable in relation to the particular murder brought up during the debate last night.

You know who you're voting for FrancieBrady. Live with it.