People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sadly, none of this, once again, pathetic exploitation of a victim is going to bring her son back.

I think once she realised she was wrong it was genuine shock (it was visible) she was wrong and she accepted it.

It was Breege Quinn who has gone on radio this week to call Sinn Fein out.

She was rightly outraged by Lynn Boylan the other morning

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

Pathetic exploitation of a victim would be blackening the victim's name, calling them or their families liars, posing as intermediaries between the victims and the IRA while actually providing shelter to the perpetrators.

I was actually talking about Maria Cahill here, but it would be equally applicable in relation to the particular murder brought up during the debate last night.

You know who you're voting for FrancieBrady. Live with it.

So the timing has nothing to do with it? Give over You would think we didn't have other more pressing national crises/issues.
Are you suggesting the IRA and affiliates engaged in criminality? No way... as if.
TBF, I don't think Paul Quinn will be a big issue outside of FF/FG using his mother to distract. Let's be honest, if Paul Quinn was from Blanchards town nobody in FF/FG or the media would give a f***.

efanton

joseywhales wrote: »

Lets use an example here:
You have a high earning job, say 400k, you are head of a research team at microsoft.

You are irish, you want to live here and have a family here.
You are very hard to replace for microsoft so you convince them to let you work here, even though the rest of the team is in Seattle but they trust you
You write a proposal, to form a sub team here in ireland employing 5 after 5 years 10 after 10, of irish people with the potential to reach your level and earning power.

Now imagine you increase the marginal income tax rate, none of the above happens, you decide it is not worth living in Ireland, you stay in Seattle and pay average 35% income tax, the country loses hundreds of thousands in taxes and intellectual property and high value jobs.

That is the cost,fine if you think it is worth it.

What you say is all very possible. Like I said I was not advocating a 60% tax, I was just pointing out that raising income tax wold have little impact, and probably none at all, on a companies decision to pull out.
Income tax does not affect companies and corporations, corporation tax is the only tax that affect them.

But the point even in your example is it made absolutely no difference to the company. The company did not, and would not,decide to pull out of Ireland. If the man in your example did not work for the company someone else would. The vast majority of multinational jobs do not provide that sort of income, so your example is only relevant to a tiny proportion of multinational jobs.

Since when was it the governments job to look after a tiny minority of citizens rather than look after the vast majority of citizens?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It was Breege Quinn who has gone on radio this week to call Sinn Fein out.

She was rightly outraged by Lynn Boylan the other morning

Breege Quinn has been rightly outraged since 2007 and nobody has done anything for her.

But she will be used when it is expedient for FG and FF to use her, just like Mairia Cahill was used and exploited and then dropped when they were done with her.

That's the obscenity that people are seeing through.

efanton

joseywhales wrote: »

Lets use an example here:
You have a high earning job, say 400k, you are head of a research team at microsoft.

You are irish, you want to live here and have a family here.
You are very hard to replace for microsoft so you convince them to let you work here, even though the rest of the team is in Seattle but they trust you
You write a proposal, to form a sub team here in ireland employing 5 after 5 years 10 after 10, of irish people with the potential to reach your level and earning power.

Now imagine you increase the marginal income tax rate, none of the above happens, you decide it is not worth living in Ireland, you stay in Seattle and pay average 35% income tax, the country loses hundreds of thousands in taxes and intellectual property and high value jobs.

That is the cost,fine if you think it is worth it.

What you say is all very possible. Like I said I was not advocating a 60% tax, I was just pointing out that raising income tax wold have little impact, and probably none at all, on a companies decision to pull out.
Income tax does not affect companies and corporations, corporation tax is the only tax that affect them.

But the point even in your example is it made absolutely no difference to the company. The company did not, and would not,decide to pull out of Ireland. If the man in your example did not work for the company someone else would. The vast majority of multinational jobs do not provide that sort of income, so your example is only relevant to a tiny proportion of multinational jobs.

Since when was it the governments job to look after a tiny minority of citizens rather than look after the vast majority of citizens?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Breege Quinn has been rightly outraged since 2007 and nobody has done anything for her.

But she will be used when it is expedient for FG and FF to use her, just like Mairia Cahill was used and exploited and then dropped when they were done with her.

That's the obscenity that people are seeing through.

Crap, she said nothing until Lynn Boylan stupidly got involved.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Crap, she said nothing until Lynn Boylan stupidly got involved.

Brendan O'Connor first mentioned Paul Quinn blanch.

feargale

Matt Barrett wrote: »

FG would have us in the Commonwealth.

feargale wrote: »

If you had a choice between a united Ireland as a republic in the Commonwealth and the present 26-county republic which would you choose?

@Matt Barrett: You seem to have missed this. We await your response with baited breath.

James Brown

feargale wrote: »

@Matt Barrett: You seem to have missed this. We await your response with baited breath.

Saw it. Ignored it. Cool?
Why would somebody hoping for a united Ireland, (myself and Enda Kenny) take either as an option? I'll pull a Jim Kirk ‎to your Kobayashi Maru thanks

woohoo!!!

Interesting comment by Bertie Ahern in 2007:

The murder in Monaghan last month of Paul Quinn "was not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place", the Taoiseach told the Dáil.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-says-quinn-killing-a-criminal-feud-ahern-1.982248?mode=amp

FrancieBrady

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Interesting comment by Bertie Ahern in 2007:

The murder in Monaghan last month of Paul Quinn "was not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place", the Taoiseach told the Dáil.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-says-quinn-killing-a-criminal-feud-ahern-1.982248?mode=amp

Has he apologised????

woohoo!!!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has he apologised????

Of course not and nor should he. He was giving an account of the then murder, from where his sources of info came, and any wider implications. Or doing his job as Taoiseach and Informing the Dail.

Todays revisionism and turning the murder into a political football at election time is very cynical and misleading.

facehugger99

efanton wrote: »

Since when was it the governments job to look after a tiny minority of citizens rather than look after the vast majority of citizens?

Maybe if the top 5% of earners in Ireland were paying 40% of the total income tax take, it might be an idea to consider the effect of what taxing them more might result in.

Maybe that 40% of the tax take is used to pay for a load of the services that a lot of the other citizens are availing of.

That's just a wild idea.

RandomName2

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Of course not and nor should he [apologize]. He was giving an account of the then murder, from where his sources of info came, and any wider implications. Or doing his job as Taoiseach and Informing the Dail.

Todays revisionism and turning the murder into a political football at election time is very cynical and misleading.

I think that the Sinn Fein supporters moving away from throwing victims and their families under the bus to whataboutery is a stronger suit for them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-says-quinn-not-a-criminal-1.992814

You should drop the blatant lies though.

Hold on a minute. This happened in 2007. We shouldn't be talking about ancient history like this. What about De Valera. He killed people back a hundred years ago. What about him?

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think that the Sinn Fein supporters moving away from throwing victims and their families under the bus to whataboutery is a stronger suit for them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-says-quinn-not-a-criminal-1.992814

You should drop the blatant lies though.

Hold on a minute. This happened in 2007. We shouldn't be talking about ancient history like this. What about De Valera. He killed people back a hundred years ago. What about him?

Codology.
If was stated SF/IRA beat the lad to death or in the least should apologise for suggesting he was a criminal.
And there the leader of the country at the time saying it was nothing to do with the IRA and the lad was a criminal.
So back to the drawing board FF/FG, still a few days left to distract from the national crises.

woohoo!!!

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think that the Sinn Fein supporters moving away from throwing victims and their families under the bus to whataboutery is a stronger suit for them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-says-quinn-not-a-criminal-1.992814

You should drop the blatant lies though.

Hold on a minute. This happened in 2007. We shouldn't be talking about ancient history like this. What about De Valera. He killed people back a hundred years ago. What about him?

The article quoted what was said in the Dail. If the Dail record is inaccurate, then Martin as FF leader and assumed next Taoiseach should correct the Dail record. Unless of course it's just an election ploy, to be quickly forgotten about.

Oh and first time SF voter and the only people who are convinced by your line of argument are those already converted. Both FF and FG are under 50% per the last poll. It would be smart to listen to and understand the reasons why. This issue, the special criminal court, will sway very few voters compared to housing and health. But you're too wound up in faux rage to notice or perhaps it's just arrogance, either way, your views are out of touch and yesterdays dinosaur, politically speaking.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has he apologised????

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Of course not and nor should he. He was giving an account of the then murder, from where his sources of info came, and any wider implications. Or doing his job as Taoiseach and Informing the Dail.

Todays revisionism and turning the murder into a political football at election time is very cynical and misleading.

Actually he did, a month later. Took Sinn Fein over 12 years.

Idbatterim

woohoo!!! wrote: »

The article quoted what was said in the Dail. If the Dail record is inaccurate, then Martin as FF leader and assumed next Taoiseach should correct the Dail record. Unless of course it's just an election ploy, to be quickly forgotten about.

Oh and first time SF voter and the only people who are convinced by your line of argument are those already converted. Both FF and FG are under 50% per the last poll. It would be smart to listen to and understand the reasons why. This issue, the special criminal court, will sway very few voters compared to housing and health. But you're too wound up in faux rage to notice or perhaps it's just arrogance, either way, your views are out of touch and yesterdays dinosaur, politically speaking.

Correct. Few of my mates and family havegone from Fg to a sf vote. Primarily on housing issues as a protest. Do they give a ross about the doe usl criminal court ? Do the fcuk. This country holds nobody to account. Raising Mickey Mouse issues to try and detract

woohoo!!!

blanch152 wrote: »

Actually he did, a month later. Took Sinn Fein over 12 years.

Link?

RandomName2

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Codology.
If was stated SF/IRA beat the lad to death or in the least should apologise for suggesting he was a criminal.
And there the leader of the country at the time saying it was nothing to do with the IRA and the lad was a criminal.
So back to the drawing board FF/FG, still a few days left to distract from the national crises.

Distraction.

Claim: Bertie Ahern did not apologize for saying that he believed that the death was the result of a criminal dispute. This is a lie. He did apologize at the time when the matter was clarified for him.

From Sinn Fein's point of view, they always side with the IRA where the matter is a personal dispute with a civilian. This was, for instance, the case with the McCartney sisters. They personally speak to both the IRA and the victims (you can laugh at the notion of the IRA being a separate organization if you wish), and then try and brush the matter under the carpet.

When they know who the perpetrators are, they always go by their old rule. Whatever you say, say nothing.

And these national crises you say, you say we should vest trust in an organization which has very little experience, and the experience they do have in the North has a poor track record. Put trust in an organization which wants to vastly increase spending and believe it can do so entirely by taxing the tech companies, upon which we are dependent for most of our current urban employment sector.

The murders, or the bad economic plans. Take your pick about which one makes them a bad choice. I think the latter is the only one the public care about though.

is_that_so

Idbatterim wrote: »

Correct. Few of my mates and family havegone from Fg to a sf vote. Primarily on housing issues as a protest. Do they give a ross about the doe usl criminal court ? Do the fcuk. This country holds nobody to account. Raising Mickey Mouse issues to try and detract

That so-called protest vote is likely to put almost all of those "despised" parties back into power with possibly FG as mudguard.

blanch152

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Link?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51384695

"The taoiseach (Irish prime minister) at the time, Bertie Ahern, told the Dáil (Irish parliament) in the immediate aftermath that the killing was "not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place".

The following month Mr Ahern corrected himself and told the Dáil Mr Quinn had no criminal links, although he added that police had told him there was no information available to them that the murder was authorised or sanctioned by the IRA.

The Irish foreign affairs minister at the time, Dermot Ahern, said his government believed the killing may have been carried out by IRA members but not ordered by the IRA army council - which meant the political process would not be affected."

Idbatterim

is_that_so wrote: »

That so-called protest vote is likely to put almost all of those "despised" parties back into power with possibly FG as mudguard.

I know. All the options are ****e. People are so frustrated and that is because change isn’t occurring or is so glacial. In recent years , Fg in particular have created this situation. I mean they drive people to consider alternatives even if it’s a Hail Mary , because of their lack of action. It’s fg causing these issues primarily

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

Distraction.

Claim: Bertie Ahern did not apologize for saying that he believed that the death was the result of a criminal dispute. This is a lie. He did apologize at the time when the matter was clarified for him.

From Sinn Fein's point of view, they always side with the IRA where the matter is a personal dispute with a civilian. This was, for instance, the case with the McCartney sisters. They personally speak to both the IRA and the victims (you can laugh at the notion of the IRA being a separate organization if you wish), and then try and brush the matter under the carpet.

When they know who the perpetrators are, they always go by their old rule. Whatever you say, say nothing.

And these national crises you say, you say we should vest trust in an organization which has very little experience, and the experience they do have in the North has a poor track record. Put trust in an organization which wants to vastly increase spending and believe it can do so entirely by taxing the tech companies, upon which we are dependent for most of our current urban employment sector.

The murders, or the bad economic plans. Take your pick about which one makes them a bad choice. I think the latter is the only one the public care about though.

Can we make up claims? Where did I state he didn't retract it at some point?
I'm not really interested in talking about the IRA or SF up north as regards the 2020 election.
I think SF will tackle housing and that's a key problem we have so I support them on that. If PBP were looking good likely we'd both be discussing them but it's SF, so IRA stories it is.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51384695

"The taoiseach (Irish prime minister) at the time, Bertie Ahern, told the Dáil (Irish parliament) in the immediate aftermath that the killing was "not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place".

The following month Mr Ahern corrected himself and told the Dáil Mr Quinn had no criminal links, although he added that police had told him there was no information available to them that the murder was authorised or sanctioned by the IRA.

The Irish foreign affairs minister at the time, Dermot Ahern, said his government believed the killing may have been carried out by IRA members but not ordered by the IRA army council - which meant the political process would not be affected."

So what's the problem?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can we make up claims? Where did I state he didn't retract it at some point?
I'm not really interested in talking about the IRA or SF up north as regards the 2020 election.
I think SF will tackle housing and that's a key problem we have so I support them on that. If PBP were looking good likely we'd both be discussing them but it's SF, so IRA stories it is.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So what's the problem?

We are talking about incidents that happened in 2007, what is wrong with that?

By the way, since when did you become a partitionist?

joseywhales

efanton wrote: »

What you say is all very possible. Like I said I was not advocating a 60% tax, I was just pointing out that raising income tax wold have little impact, and probably none at all, on a companies decision to pull out.
Income tax does not affect companies and corporations, corporation tax is the only tax that affect them.

But the point even in your example is it made absolutely no difference to the company. The company did not, and would not,decide to pull out of Ireland. If the man in your example did not work for the company someone else would. The vast majority of multinational jobs do not provide that sort of income, so your example is only relevant to a tiny proportion of multinational jobs.

Since when was it the governments job to look after a tiny minority of citizens rather than look after the vast majority of citizens?

Neither is it the governments job to exploit a minority of citizens I this case those with high annual income, they are already paying a higher marginal tax rate.

Someone else would do this man's job but these jobs are often completely flexible geographically, I am in this situation myself and workers choose where they want to live based on quality of life and services offered by each country.

Increasing taxes on the high end may give people a sense of satisfaction or even fairness but it firstly will not have a high impact on overall tax take and secondly can negatively affect the growth of high earning jobs in the country, so what is the point? To feel good about ourselves?

jmayo

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think SF will tackle housing and that's a key problem we have so I support them on that...

Maybe they will get some other "ex acquaintances" like Tom McFeeley to help build all these new houses.

Hell maybe SF will find all the money under a bath to meet all the lavish spending plans.

Greyfox

Idbatterim wrote: »

Correct. Few of my mates and family havegone from Fg to a sf vote. Primarily on housing issues as a protest.

Very smart people. Voting FG is saying your happy to see the housing crisis continue as FG are not offering a solution that's good enough. We need to send a message that we will no longer tolerate mediocrity. Voting SF is not a perfect solution but change is long overdue and it's time we gave someone else a chance.

blanch152 wrote: »

We are talking about incidents that happened in 2007, what is wrong with that?

I couldn't care less, the housing crisis is far more important than what happened in Northern Ireland.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

We are talking about incidents that happened in 2007, what is wrong with that?

By the way, since when did you become a partitionist?

Nothing, if it had anything to do with ML/SF and the election.

ML isn't running up there and we are not voting for Murphy in the election either. Pretty obvious.

Anyway no more use of vulture funds by the state is the goal and looks like we'll return to building social housing after the weekend. Great news for the tax payer.