People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

Bishop of hope

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That didn't wash several years ago and it certainly doesn't now.
Emergency measures like hotels and buying to use as social housing is the norm now.
Building en masse is cheaper than leasing, renting or buying.
They can get the money when it suits and its cheaper, just less profit in to and less business for chums of FG.
Hiw can anybody justify buying houses at market over building? It's not a good deal for the tax payer, others for sure.

How about maintaining?
Every town in Ireland is littered with closed up local authority houses, wrecked and ruined by bad and unpaying tenants. Putting the house there is only the start of the cost involved in social housing.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you prove they showed them live? I didn't see any of them, and there'd be radio and telly on here 24/7.


You have made a statement and you have no back-up. Fair enough.

Come off it man, read the articles where do you think the rte reporter was writing the articles from in the press conference links I gave you? Space maybe?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Come off it man, read the articles where do you think the rte reporter was writing the articles from in the press conference links I gave you? Space maybe?

If you don't know the difference between sending a reporter to a press conference and 'a live broadcast of a press conference' or what is 'usual' and what is 'unusual', I cannot help you here.

Don't worry about it. I understand.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you don't know the difference between sending a reporter to a press conference and 'a live broadcast of a press conference' or what is 'usual' and what is 'unusual', I cannot help you here.

Don't worry about it. I understand.

You seem to be a right conpriacy theorist

Or do you want more examples the serious assault in Fermanagh dated 19th September 2019. PSNI press conference Reported on by RTE live

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/psni-press-conference-with-district-commander-of-the-fermanagh-and-omagh-distric/481988265713036/

It only seems to jar with you when there is a PSNI press conference when there is an election on?
For a first time SF voter you do seem very impassioned and worried about the slightest thing that might harm SF. In fact anything from NI should be ignored etc just in case?

A normal party would not be worried about such issues. But as you well know SF are not a normal party hence the reason why the OP created this thread.

SantaCruz

flutered wrote: »

does a renting contract of 25 years make any sense

Yes. It's common in some places.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You seem to be a right conpriacy theorist

Or do you want more examples serious assault in Fermanagh dated September 2019. PSNI press conference Reported on by RTE live

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/psni-press-conference-with-district-commander-of-the-fermanagh-and-omagh-distric/481988265713036/

It only seems to jar with you when there is a PSNI press conference when there is an election on?
For a first time SF voter you do seem very impassioned and worried about the slightest thing that might harm SF. In fact anything from NI should be ignored etc just in case?

A normal party would not be worried about such issues. But as you well know SF are not a normal party hence the reason why the OP created this thread.

Finally!

Thank you. Anymore?

Idbatterim

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That didn't wash several years ago and it certainly doesn't now.
Emergency measures like hotels and buying to use as social housing is the norm now.
Building en masse is cheaper than leasing, renting or buying.
They can get the money when it suits and its cheaper, just less profit and less business for chums of FG.
How can anybody justify buying houses at market over building? It's not a good deal for the tax payer, others for sure.

they could sort out a tens of billions massively complex bank guarantee in virtually no time, when a solution had to be found :rolleyes:

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Finally!

Thank you. Anymore?

I am not playing the be FrancieBrady's researcher game. Because that would not be as catchy a nickname as Francie 'up all night' Brady.

I have already given you three examples.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not playing the be FrancieBrady's researcher game. Because that would not be as catchy a nickname as Francie 'up all night' Brady.

I have already given you three examples.

No...that's one link to one story, which was national news.

I have no problem saying my 'conspiracy theory' (conspiracies do exist) meter is on overdrive.
I asked a simple question, you answered saying it was not 'unusual' and after several attempts came up with one link.

Still doesn't quite stretch to 'usual'.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...that's one link to one story, which was national news.

I have no problem saying my 'conspiracy theory' (conspiracies do exist) meter is on overdrive.
I asked a simple question, you answered saying it was not 'unusual' and after several attempts came up with one link.

Still doesn't quite stretch to 'usual'.

I gave you the examples but you seem too lazy too look at them in detail I won't spoon feed you.

Also you are misconstruing what I said I said it is not unusual for such a paramilitary undercurrent in NI. What was unusual about it to me was that it was Brexit linked for the same day the UK left the EU.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also you are misconstruing what I said I said it is not unusual for such a paramilitary undercurrent in NI. What was unusual about it to me was that it was Brexit linked for the same day the UK left the EU.

The question:

FrancieBrady wrote:

Forgive me for being a bit sensitive to conspiracy theories, but is RTE covering a PSNI press conference Live a bit unusual?

Has any other dissident attack...failed or successful - gotten a live press conference ?

Anyone know or remember?

The Answer:

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Well considering the fact that Mary Lou mentioned today (PK interview NT) that Michelle O'Neill will be attending a PSNI event with the DUP I do not see it as unusual no.

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...that's one link to one story, which was national news.

I have no problem saying my 'conspiracy theory' (conspiracies do exist) meter is on overdrive.
I asked a simple question, you answered saying it was not 'unusual' and after several attempts came up with one link.

Still doesn't quite stretch to 'usual'.

Is this sealioning?

You've made a big deal about a police press conference being televised live as representative of some sort of conspiracy. A press conference.

PRESS:

1. : the gathering and publishing or broadcasting of news : JOURNALISM
2. : newspapers, periodicals, and often radio and television news broadcasting
3. : news reporters, publishers, and broadcasters
4. : comment or notice in newspapers and periodicals

I don't even know what this press conference was about, but I'm assuming it was about the murder of Paul Quinn. You would be better off saying that we should stop discussing Paul Quinn out of respect of the dead, that it was dissidents unrelated to Sinn Fein that committed it, and reports of Sinn Fein knowing who committed the murder (along with the other murders) are lies from west-Brits who just want to damage Sinn Fein's reputation.

Or just ignore the item altogether, but not sending the fool further with no intention of discussion.

Of course I may be wrong and this police conference may be in relation to another matter, but the 'have you any source for that' discussion has had a long and winding road in this thread that I don't have the stomach to wade through.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is this sealioning?

You've made a big deal about a police press conference being televised live as representative of some sort of conspiracy. A press conference.

I don't even know what this press conference was about, but I'm assuming it was about the murder of Paul Quinn. You would be better off saying that we should stop discussing Paul Quinn out of respect of the dead, that it was dissidents unrelated to Sinn Fein that committed it, and reports of Sinn Fein knowing who committed the murder (along with the other murders) are lies from west-Brits who just want to damage Sinn Fein's reputation.

Or just ignore the item altogether, but not sending the fool further with no intention of discussion.

Of course I may be wrong and this police conference may be in relation to another matter, but the 'have you any source for that' discussion has had a long and winding road in this thread that I don't have the stomach to wade through.

I asked a simple question.

I got an answer, asked for some examples, and then got lots of waffle and attempts to have a dig and finally got an answer.


Calm down, panic over. All is good.

woohoo!!!

It was to be expected, a manufactured outrage to distract that FG are going backwards at a rate of knots and FF are not making the expected gains. I say manufactured because I have not seen such huge concern over this horrific murder until this week. And my prediction is that shortly after this week it'll drop from the airwaves.

This will be my first time voting no. 1 for SF. I consider them and their policies to be centre left, by european standards and that's where I'm at. I have considered them a serious political party since the mid noughties and I have voted them down the list in previous elections.

FG did good with the economy considering what they were handed 9 years ago. They have not done so well on social issues, not terrible but not good enough. I simply do not trust FF or Labour (who would have been my political home previousky). Voted green in the recent by election but she's not running now and I've never heard of the current candidate at all. Voted social democrats in the 2016 GE but none on offer now.

I'd say my brief story is fairly typical for those now going to give SF a no. 1. Not some sort of deplorable, shinner bot or loon who is ignorant of politics. I note the propaganda nonsense coming out of the Indo in particular but also common in other sources. I will simply comment that like FG and to a lesser extent FF, the commentariat are out of touch and folk like Eoghan Harris are the gift that keeps giving cos they are just bonkers.

Most interesting election that I can remember cos both FF and FG can no longer be endured of their duopoly. Given the minimal policy difference between them, they should merge.

As for anyone suggesting that SF should have gone to Westminster and stopped Brexit, they obviously have zero understanding of where English nationalism is at and how counter productively it would have been for Westminster has never been interested is the welfare of this island, something SF understand explicitly.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...that's one link to one story, which was national news.

I have no problem saying my 'conspiracy theory' (conspiracies do exist) meter is on overdrive.
I asked a simple question, you answered saying it was not 'unusual' and after several attempts came up with one link.

Still doesn't quite stretch to 'usual'.

Three days ago you were saying you don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
Today you say your conspiracy theory meter is on overdrive because you say “conspiracies do exist.”

At least you are consistent.

The truth is whatever is convenient at the time.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

How about maintaining?
Every town in Ireland is littered with closed up local authority houses, wrecked and ruined by bad and unpaying tenants. Putting the house there is only the start of the cost involved in social housing.

What about it? Of course they need be maintained and rent needs paying too.
Do you feel the issue goes away with leasing or buying social housing?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Three days ago you were saying you don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
Today you say your conspiracy theory meter is on overdrive because you say “conspiracies do exist.”

At least you are consistent.

The truth is whatever is convenient at the time.

I said...I don't 'generally believe in conspiracy theories'.

For instance, for a long time I didn't believe the conspiracy Maurice McCabe was alluding to, but I had to eventually because he conclusively proved there was one.

I think my position on RTE would be, 'I don't want to believe there is a conspiracy...' but that has been very hard to believe over the last while.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Three days ago you were saying you don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
Today you say your conspiracy theory meter is on overdrive because you say “conspiracies do exist.”

At least you are consistent.

The truth is whatever is convenient at the time.

How come you folk play the man not the ball? Issues are different. There is rarely a one size fits all. Why not stick to the discussion?

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

How come you folk play the man not the ball? Issues are different. There is rarwly a one size fits all. Why not stick to the discussion?

Why is it a tag team with ye guys. Francie is well able to answer for himself.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Why is it a tag team with ye guys. Francie is well able to answer for himself.

So is gormdubh.

celt262

A pro-IRA song with the lyrics "ooh ah, up the Ra" has been played from a vehicle canvassing for Sinn Féin in the Irish general election.

The van was being used to canvass for Pauline Tully, who is standing in the Cavan/Monaghan constituency.

In a video, sent to the Nolan Show , the vehicle is seen parked in Kingscourt, County Cavan, on Thursday, playing Celtic Symphony by the Wolfe Tones.

The BBC has contacted Sinn Féin for comment.

Ms Tully is the former wife of convicted Garda [police] killer Pearse McAuley, who was jailed for stabbing her on Christmas Eve 2014.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-51407812

SafeSurfer

celt262 wrote: »

A pro-IRA song with the lyrics "ooh ah, up the Ra" has been played from a vehicle canvassing for Sinn Féin in the Irish general election.

The van was being used to canvass for Pauline Tully, who is standing in the Cavan/Monaghan constituency.

In a video, sent to the Nolan Show , the vehicle is seen parked in Kingscourt, County Cavan, on Thursday, playing Celtic Symphony by the Wolfe Tones.

The BBC has contacted Sinn Féin for comment.

Ms Tully is the former wife of convicted Garda [police] killer Pearse McAuley, who was jailed for stabbing her on Christmas Eve 2014.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-51407812

Stay Classy San Diego

RandomName2

woohoo!!! wrote: »

It was to be expected, a manufactured outrage to distract that FG are going backwards at a rate of knots and FF are not making the expected gains. I say manufactured because I have not seen such huge concern over this horrific murder until this week. And my prediction is that shortly after this week it'll drop from the airwaves.

I agree. Sinn Fein is knee deep in criminality and has connections, either directly or indirectly, with most of the republican gangs operating on the island. It has already had well established terrorists campaign successfully down here. If people get their knickers in a twist about a single murder, they are being hypocrites.

woohoo!!! wrote: »

As for anyone suggesting that SF should have gone to Westminster and stopped Brexit, they obviously have zero understanding of where English nationalism is at and how counter productively it would have been for Westminster has never been interested is the welfare of this island, something SF understand explicitly.

Was that the reason they used when they called the Dáil a treacherous institution that they refused to recognise until the Ard Fheis on 1 November 1986 (which largely passed due to the support of the IRA on the matter).

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

Was that the reason they used when they called the Dáil a treacherous institution that they refused to recognise until the Ard Fheis on 1 November 1986 (which largely passed due to the support of the IRA on the matter).

Every party on this island has evolved their positions on a whole range of things and don't get pilloried for it.

Why would you treat a change in SF's position any differently.

P.S. People know that the IRA had influence in SF...they'd be stupid not to.
The IRA are gone. If you have any evidence that they are still controlling SF then I would like to see it.

Feeling it in your water, does not constitute evidence, nor the word of vote seeking former disaffected members.

Darc19

Story on BBC saying Cavan SF candidate blaring IRA anthems from her car.

Seems in the border towns they want people to know their connections with the past whilst elsewhere they want to keep it quiet

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Every party on this island has evolved their positions on a whole range of things and don't get pilloried for it.

Why would you treat a change in SF's position any differently.

P.S. People know that the IRA had influence in SF...they'd be stupid not to.
The IRA are gone. If you have any evidence that they are still controlling SF then I would like to see it.

Feeling it in your water, does not constitute evidence, nor the word of vote seeking former disaffected members.

I suppose you are going ask for evidence of a picture of an IRA member in a SF office recently complete with his IRA membership badge as proof....:rolleyes:

The major difference is most parties in the island do not have a dual strategy one for NI and one for the ROI. One is a softer more 'southern' one which is republican lite all smiles. Going on about houses, taxing the rich.



The other is the style used by SF in NI pandering to the hardline republicans or naive rich american groups which fund the IRA.

Mary Lou with the banner in NY March of 2019:



Michelle O'Neill carrying the coffin of Annie Cahill republican and former wife of IRA leader Joe Cahill (2018 only two years ago)





It is because of such duplicity that there a healthy dose of dubiousness about SF. If they moved away from thier panto beret politics they would do far better.
Be honest and open get everything out there. But no, they only back down when thier credibility takes a hit like on the Quinn issue.
It is the same tried and tested game with them, ask a question on a victim of republican related violence of an innocent and the response is always we could all name victims etc etc

But at the same time SF glorify mindless republicanism to the working class disenfranchised, and the rich yanks. Adds a great mystic for them.

They have to chose which way they want to go. Not pick and chose as it suits a jurisdiction or demographic. It is really cynical politics. And this dual strategy really tarnishes ordinary decent hard working members of SF as a result. In my opinion.

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Every party on this island has evolved their positions on a whole range of things and don't get pilloried for it.

And the wheel of justification lands on

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael were guilty of misdemeanors in the past

That's not really relevant, is it? And it's not relevant in a number of ways. If somebody else does something wrong, it does not necessarily make you right. More to the point, can you point out a member of Fianna Fail or Fine Gael who has a conviction for armed robbery, possessing illegal firearms, or explosives? Okay, rhetorical question. The War of Independence genuinely is ancient history, and Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are separated from it both temporally and ideologically. Neither of these parties were in existence during it. It bears no relevance, and I would not hesitate to point it out if it did.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would you treat a change in SF's position any differently.

Is there that much of a change in SF's position though, that's the issue.

That's why I said that they have connections with most of the republican gangs operating on the island, not had. When the IRA commits a murder, the victims' families appeal to Sinn Fein to talk to the IRA on their behalf. Sinn Fein believes that the IRA are right, that the IRA was right, and that giving up violence is not moral, but pragmatic.

Should they get credit for recognizing our country and engaging in the peace process? Sure. That's still a long, long stretch from being fit for office.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

P.S. People know that the IRA had influence in SF...they'd be stupid not to.
The IRA are gone. If you have any evidence that they are still controlling SF then I would like to see it.

Though they may be less active, and have fewer numbers, they haven't gone away, you know.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

And the wheel of justification lands on

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael were guilty of misdemeanors in the past

That's not really relevant, is it? And it's not relevant in a number of ways. If somebody else does something wrong, it does not necessarily make you right. Can you point out a member of Fianna Fail or Fine Gael who has a conviction for armed robbery, possessing illegal firearms, or explosives? Okay, rhetorical question.

No, I can't. I also cannot point to any FF or FG politicians who were involved in a conflict/war over almost 40 years. That more or less stopped when an international agreement was arrived at and has held since.

Is there that much of a change in SF's position though, that's the issue.

With regard to recognising this state and it's institutions...absolutely and fundamentally changed and evolved.

That's why I said that they have connections with most of the republican gangs operating on the island, not had. When the IRA commits a murder, the victims' families appeal to Sinn Fein to talk to the IRA on their behalf. Sinn Fein believes that the IRA are right, that the IRA was right, and that giving up violence is not moral, but pragmatic.

Paul Quinn was not killed by the IRA. See the IMC report. If you know different to them, by all means present the evidence.

Though they may be less active, and have fewer numbers, they haven't gone away, you know.

That's even lower grade evidence than your 'waters'

FrancieBrady

Jude Collins providing a few questions for the high moral grounder Martin. Running with the fox and hunting with the hounds.

Here’s Micheál Martin in today’s Irish Times:

“There are ‘fundamental moral issues to be addressed’ before Fianna Fáil will consider any coalition government with Sinn Féin, citing the party’s culture of “omerta” in the wake of the murder of Paul Quinn, party leader Micheál Martin has said.

Here’s Bertie Ahern in the Irish Times, 15 November 2007:

The murder in Monaghan last month of Paul Quinn “was not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place”, the Taoiseach told the Dáil. Bertie Ahern said the Government had received a number of reports from both gardaí “and secondhand from the PSNI, and both of them match at this stage, that this action was due to criminality”.

At the time Bertie Ahern made that statement, Micheál Martin was serving in his Cabinet as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. It seems highly likely that Micheál Martin knew what his party leader said at the time and knows it today. Yet he has chosen, with Leo Varadkar and other Irish politicians, to keep silent about this matter. Would this come under the heading of ‘omerta’?

Perhaps in today’s Nolan Show or Crawley’s Talkback we’ll have time devoted to this missing piece of the case. Or perhaps not.

As things stand, the electorate in the south are being played like a Stradivarius. Let’s hope that on Saturday, they will push back hard.

http://www.judecollins.com/2020/02/news-manipulation-in-the-mouth-of-an-election/?fbclid=IwAR3nazr5cdi6hS86aZQAjdZuHPFjo0WIbh2gJy1xekedgztj35qj4Wv6pHY

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I can't. I also cannot point to any FF or FG politicians who were involved in a conflict/war over almost 40 years. That more or less stopped when an international agreement was arrived at and has held since.



With regard to recognising this state and it's institutions...absolutely and fundamentally changed and evolved.



Paul Quinn was not killed by the IRA. See the IMC report. If you know different to them, by all means present the evidence.








That's even lower grade evidence than your 'waters'

Seems you and your supporters here said Paul Quinn was a criminal maybe you should present the evidence and go to the Garda with it.

Might help solve the case.