People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Seems you and your supporters here said Paul Quinn was a criminal maybe you should present the evidence and go to the Garda with it.

Might help solve the case.

Maybe Bertie and Michael should tell us what was in those Garda reports and 'secondhand PSNI information. See post above ^^^

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

With regard to recognising this state and it's institutions...absolutely and fundamentally changed and evolved.

But not in its attitude to violence. Moreover if they just see it as a means to an end (that politics is a more expedient means to power than bombs) it should raise the question of how sincere the position is. Similarly their insistence of destroying the SCC mutates into 'independent review', as they are more likely to get what they want (namely the abolition of the SCC) if they say 'independent review' rather than 'abolition'.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paul Quinn was not killed by the IRA. See the IMC report. If you know different to them, by all means present the evidence.

It really doesn't matter what they call themselves. PIRA, RIRA, CIRA, TIRA. We use IRA as a shorthand for republican terrorist involved in organized crime. Paul Quinn got into an argument with the son of a senior member of the IRA, which was why he was killed. Conor Murphy was previously a member of the IRA, which made him biased when talking about the victim.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's even lower grade evidence than your 'waters'

I was doing a thing there where I was quoting Gerry Adams.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe Bertie and Michael should tell us what was in those Garda reports and 'secondhand PSNI information. See post above ^^^

Conor Murphy is lying so.

The plot thickens.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Conor Murphy is lying so.

The plot thickens.

If you listened to Breege Quinn this evening, she wants Murphy to say 'her son was not a criminal' still.

Murphy apologised for hurting the family.

I think what we need now is to see what was in those reports that led Ahern to inform the Dáil as he did, if we are all anxious to get to the truth.

FrancieBrady

RandomName2 wrote: »

But not in its attitude to violence. Moreover if they just see it as a means to an end (that politics is a more expedient means to power than bombs) it should raise the question of how sincere the position is. Similarly their insistence of destroying the SCC mutates into 'independent review', as they are more likely to get what they want (namely the abolition of the SCC) if they say 'independent review' rather than 'abolition'.

Almost every party in this state saw violence as a means to an end at some point.

I have no idea why SF don't just come out and say they want rid of the SCC, like the UN and ICCL and others.

That's pretty good company to be in to be honest.

It really doesn't matter what they call themselves. PIRA, RIRA, CIRA, TIRA. We use IRA as a shorthand for republican terrorist involved in organized crime. Paul Quinn got into an argument with the son of a senior member of the IRA, which was why he was killed. Conor Murphy was previously a member of the IRA, which made him biased when talking about the victim.

Again, not according to the IMC and as it now turns out, the reports from the Gardai and PSNI that Bertie Ahern read.
The IMC said 'it was as a result of a dispute not unconnected to illegal activity'.
They said it, not me.

piplip87

I see there's a storm coming this weekend.... Complete media bias, Met Eireann in on it now to with FFG and RTE.....

Not only is the constitution, economists, ordinary decent people, RTE, and the rest of the media against SF now met Eireann are too.......

I bet they even up it to an Orange warning on Saturday to remind people of some IRA killing .....

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

I see there's a storm coming this weekend.... .

I think tbh with you the 'storm' is going to wash away the incumbents. Leaving the party that bankrupted the country in charge of the kitty.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think tbh with you the 'storm' is going to wash away the incumbents. Leaving the party that bankrupted the country in charge of the kitty.

It could leave SF in the odious position of having to choose, save the incumbents, or, bring in the party that bankrupted the country.
Or indeed sit back and laugh, because it gives them more momentum to build from their usual whinge base for the next election.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It could leave SF in the odious position of having to choose, save the incumbents, or, bring in the party that bankrupted the country.
Or indeed sit back and laugh, because it gives them more momentum to build from their usual whinge base for the next election.

I would be seriously concerned if SF go into government, for government sake or to save either of the power swap parties.

If the electorate put FF back in power that is their responsibility. It isn't up to SF to provide a government by going in as their whipping boys and girls.

By all means go in if you secure a programme of government you can stand over.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would be seriously concerned if SF go into government, for government sake or to save either of the power swap parties.

If the electorate put FF back in power that is their responsibility. It isn't up to SF to provide a government by going in as their whipping boys and girls.

By all means go in if you secure a programme of government you can stand over.

So Sinn Fein have an escape button as usual.
It will be interesting to see their final seat tally.
But if they finish first or second, however unlikely that may be, then they have a responsibility to their voters to stand up and agree with one or the other I think.
If people vote for change, and SF finish in either top position and shrink away I think it will be bad for their vote going forward.
Like, vote for them for what, you elect them to try to get change and they go off hiding.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So Sinn Fein have an escape button as usual.
It will be interesting to see their final seat tally.
But if they finish first or second, however unlikely that may be, then they have a responsibility to their voters to stand up and agree with one or the other I think.
If people vote for change, and SF finish in either top position and shrink away I think it will be bad for their vote going forward.
Like, vote for them for what, you elect them to try to get change and they go off hiding.

I'm voting for them and my vote has a rider on it.

Go into government for the sake of it, and lose my vote next time.

I would actually love the power swap parties to be unable to get anyone to form a government with them.

There is also an onus on FF and FG to recognise the mandate given to others and to AGREE a programme for government that satisfies those other mandates.

That is the imperative...if you cannot get an overall majority.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jude Collins providing a few questions for the high moral grounder Martin. Running with the fox and hunting with the hounds.



http://www.judecollins.com/2020/02/news-manipulation-in-the-mouth-of-an-election/?fbclid=IwAR3nazr5cdi6hS86aZQAjdZuHPFjo0WIbh2gJy1xekedgztj35qj4Wv6pHY

Nauseating piece.

As you well know, and has been pointed out many times, that allegation was withdrawn in the Dail by the Taoiseach the following month.

The garda information was based on lies spread by SF/IRA contacts and once the information was investigated, it became clear that Paul Quinn had not been a criminal.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm voting for them and my vote has a rider on it.

Go into government for the sake of it, and lose my vote next time.

I would actually love the power swap parties to be unable to get anyone to form a government with them.

There is also an onus on FF and FG to recognise the mandate given to others and to AGREE a programme for government that satisfies those other mandates.

That is the imperative...if you cannot get an overall majority.

No, the imperative to get a working government by whatever means possible and once the votes have been counted we have no more say in that outcome.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The garda information was based on lies spread by SF/IRA contacts and once the information was investigated, it became clear that Paul Quinn had not been a criminal.

Can you link to anything that proves this?

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

No, the imperative to get a working government by whatever means possible and once the votes have been counted we have no more say in that outcome.

A 'working government' being the important bit.

If SF can agree a programme for government that they can stand over...fine by me.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A 'working government' being the important bit.

If SF can agree a programme for government that they can stand over...fine by me.

It's extremely doubtful as everything, according to Pearse, is a red line plus they won't be called.

piplip87

Just remember shinnerbots if neither FF or FG choose to go into government with yous just remember.

People voted for FF and FG even after they stated they would not go into government with SF. So remember they can give the same reason and excuse SF do for not turning up to Westminster

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you link to anything that proves this?

Are you still peddling the lie that Quinn was a criminal?

seamus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Almost every party in this state saw violence as a means to an end at some point.

Sure.

How many of those parties still have party policy dictated by terrorists and murderers Francie?

Just one: Sinn Féin.

When Mary-Lou comes out and says, "No past or current member of the IRA Army Council has any input into Sinn Fein policy", then they can have my #1.

But she won't. Because there are actual violent criminals pulling the strings in SF. I'm happy to let the past be the past. Let's deal with the present: Kick out the terrorists.

Edgware

What would people prefer?
A government of FF/SF that would last a full term or a mix match of five groups say FF Lab Green SD Indos that would have a crisis every week.

If FF/SF coalesced both parties would have to give up certain policies but then decide on some small number of policies that would tackle the vital issues.

1. Housing. Increase the level of social /affordable for that sector and increase availability of mortgages for those wishing to buy outright. If a couple can show ability to pay rents of 1500 to 2000 surely that could be accepted as proof of ability to pay a mortgage of that amount or indeed less.

2. Health. Agree on practices that would impact on A and E. More Home Care hours, step down facility etc

3. Employment. Increased apprenticeships, no tax changes that would hit cost of employment.
The further we move on the less that the Northern situation should be impacting.
There are people of talent in all parties but we need a government that can last a full term to get problems solved. Headbanger policies of the left don't work and leaving it all to the market isnt what people want either

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Just remember shinnerbots if neither FF or FG choose to go into government with yous just remember.

People voted for FF and FG even after they stated they would not go into government with SF. So remember they can give the same reason and excuse SF do for not turning up to Westminster

That's fine by me.

Let Michael and Leo hold by their promise of not even negotiating the possibility of going into government with SF.

If they cobble together a mish mash of parties into another hamstrung/paralysed government, that's fine too. They'll be back to the country soon enough IMO.

If they can't cobble together something...we'll go back to the country and see what the people think of their refusal to negotiate with a mandated party.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's fine by me.

Let Michael and Leo hold by their promise of not even negotiating the possibility of going into government with SF.

If they cobble together a mish mash of parties into another hamstrung/paralysed government, that's fine too. They'll be back to the country soon enough IMO.

If they can't cobble together something...we'll go back to the country and see what the people think of their refusal to negotiate with a mandated party.

If you vote for FF, FG and for some who vote Labour you are far less likely to give SF a vote and also to be supportive of the party's stance on them.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said...I don't 'generally believe in conspiracy theories'.

If ever there was a SF answer this was it. So far on this thread you have constantly contradicted yourself, being disingenuous, used misdirection, and had to re-qualify statement after statement, and all for a 'first time' SF voter in a GE. Welcome to the club 'comrade' talking from both sides of your mouth and dodging questions is skill normally only learnt by SF 'veterans' after years of practice. I will give you one thing you are a quick learner.
If only Mary Lou was as adept a few days ago she could learn a lot from you.

It comes to the nub of the issue because of the amount of double talk SF have and thier inability to talk straight as a result of thier very recent history. It makes it harder for the honest law abiding citizen to vote for SF as the ordinary party candidate is constrained by unelected outside forces. Many mot even within this jurisdiction.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If ever there was a SF answer this was it. So far on this thread you have constantly contradicted yourself, being disingenuous, used misdirection, and had to re-qualify statement after statement, and all for a 'first time' SF voter in a GE. Welcome to the club 'comrade' talking from both sides of your mouth and dodging questions is skill normally only learnt by SF 'veterans' after years of practice. I will give you one thing you are a quick learner.
If only Mary Lou was as adept a few days ago she could learn a lot from you.

It comes to the nub of the issue because of the amount of double talk SF have and thier inability to talk straight as a result of thier very recent history. It makes it harder for the honest law abiding citizen to vote for SF as the ordinary party candidate is constrained by unelected outside forces. Many mot even within this jurisdiction.

what 'questions' have I dodged?

Are you alright there?

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

If you vote for FF, FG and for some who vote Labour you are far less likely to give SF a vote and also to be supportive of the party's stance on them.

Sorry. I'm not understanding what you mean.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry. I'm not understanding what you mean.

They are entitled to refuse to engage as that is what their voters would favour.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

They are entitled to refuse to engage as that is what their voters would favour.

That's fine. So go elsewhere for support to form a government. You cannot blame SF if the others can't form a government.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they can't cobble together something...we'll go back to the country and see what the people think of their refusal to negotiate with a mandated party.

This is another SF mantra used to justify the armed struggle, Republicanis, but then suddenly all talk of mandates disappear when the more unpalatable parts of Republicanism pop up. Conor Murphy - discredit, deny, distance, then reluctant apology after 13 years.

You would swear no other party has a 'mandate' all other parties, individuals in the dail have a mandate not to be involved or champion para-militarism. Guess who is in the minority? About 80% v 20% SF .

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

what 'questions' have I dodged?

Are you alright there?

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you still peddling the lie that Quinn was a criminal?

Here you go.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Here you go.

All I asked for was the truth. And the truth seems to have been buried here.

Did you get any back up for your claim that the Garda info came from SF lies and defamation?

Would be pretty bizarre if the Gardai and PSNI intelligence were being controlled by SF.