National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

user1842

NBAiii wrote: »

It may have been an NBI survey but it is highly unlikely to be NBI fibre as Tipperary is not one of the initial locations. As heavydawson said it is likely part of eir's IFN build.

Indeed, the same thing is happening in Ballina, Mayo. NBI surveying along side KN laying fibre for Eir's urban rollout.

KOR101

TheSegal wrote: »

Imagine are doing door to door sales in my area and posters plastered all over phone poles. Must be to try and get people before fiber is delivered. Got a neighbour to sign up who was desperate for better internet and after two weeks it ended up worse than her old Eir connection during work hours

Imagine are no longer the boggyman they once were. I hope they, and the satellite companies, do well. We needs competition for NBI.

Also, judging by the vans and cars, Imagine is doing very well indeed at the moment.

Wing126

KOR101 wrote: »

Imagine are no longer the boggyman they once were. I hope they, and the satellite companies, do well. We needs competition for NBI.

Also, judging by the vans and cars, Imagine is doing very well indeed at the moment.

There will be plenty of competition as providers can use the NBI network, exactly like they're using OpenEir at the moment.


Imagine are only "doing well" because they're in a mad rush to snatch up customers before the NBI is completed. Satellite and Wireless Broadband are nowhere near as reliable as FTTH.


In fact, Imagine trying to catch as many customers as they can at the moment will only increase contention on their already oversold masts.

This is coming from an Imagine customer of 4 years who received 50mb download speeds on the day they installed and never again since. I can't wait to have FTTH.

Jofspring

KOR101 wrote: »

Imagine are no longer the boggyman they once were. I hope they, and the satellite companies, do well. We needs competition for NBI.

Also, judging by the vans and cars, Imagine is doing very well indeed at the moment.

Really? Aren't most people experiencing issues with Imagine? Two year contracts, dodgy service and also false advertising and under handed sales tactics.

listermint

Jofspring wrote: »

Really? Aren't most people experiencing issues with Imagine? Two year contracts, dodgy service and also false advertising and under handed sales tactics.

Mines alright have them 3 years plus.

Still want to get back to the heady days of 250mb plus I once had.

rogue-entity

KOR101 wrote: »

Imagine are no longer the boggyman they once were. I hope they, and the satellite companies, do well. We needs competition for NBI.

Got a family member who's neighbours on the left and right of them can get Eir's rural fibre but they're inexplicably unable to, labelled as being part of NBI.

Jofspring wrote: »

Really? Aren't most people experiencing issues with Imagine? Two year contracts, dodgy service and also false advertising and under handed sales tactics.

Being generally unresponsive and assigning a new random phone number in the wrong area code being another of their faults.

Ah-Watch

Absolutely clutching at straws here but I would have expected all the poles would have a barcode on them already. (for asset reasons as some mention) Eir FTTH stops less than 500m down the road but I do see that there's barcodes on the poles outside the gate. Does anyone know for definite what the barcodes represents?

Jofspring

Ah-Watch wrote: »

Absolutely clutching at straws here but I would have expected all the poles would have a barcode on them already. Eir FTTH stops less than 500m down the road but I do see that there's barcodes on the poles outside the gate. Does anyone know for definite what the barcodes represents?

Couldn't the barcodes just belong to the ESB also. They seem to be on most poles I've seen.

Ah-Watch

Jofspring wrote: »

Couldn't the barcodes just belong to the ESB also. They seem to be on most poles I've seen.

The poles at the gate I'm talking about are 100% phone poles not ESB poles though

listermint

Jofspring wrote: »

Couldn't the barcodes just belong to the ESB also. They seem to be on most poles I've seen.

Barcodes are an easy asset tracking system and are used by various utilities. They have zero bearing on your lack of or non lack of survey completion. People need to get off the barcode train.

BArra

babi-hrse can you explain what they metal barcodes riveted to eir poles are for?

i dont beleive they are NBI related either, i think they are purely for eir to have in their own database

listermint

BArra wrote: »

babi-hrse can you explain what they metal barcodes riveted to eir poles are for?

i dont beleive they are NBI related either, i think they are purely for eir to have in their own database

You might have missed the post above.

They are asset tracking system. They show location and condition. The end.

TheSegal

KOR101 wrote: »

Imagine are no longer the boggyman they once were. I hope they, and the satellite companies, do well. We needs competition for NBI.

Also, judging by the vans and cars, Imagine is doing very well indeed at the moment.

Imagine and other satellite companies can never compete with FTTH unless they completely slash their prices which I can't imagine will happen. I had salesmen call here using tactics like "our ultra high speed wireless is faster than fiber", trying to get a sale by breaking the laws of physics. They were useful for people with no other option but they won't be able to sustain their business when everyone has the option of fiber.

KOR101

ESB may be asked to help with broadband roll-out

The government is investigating whether the ESB could be brought back into the fold to help complete the roll-out of the National Broadband Plan quicker than initially envisaged, the Business Post has learned.

The contract to deliver the multibillion-euro scheme was awarded to National Broadband Ireland (NBI), headed by David McCourt, the US businessman, late last year after a controversial procurement process. The scheme aims to deliver high-speed broadband to 540,000 premises across the country...

https://www.businesspost.ie/telecoms/esb-may-be-asked-to-help-with-broadband-roll-out-4cae629f

This is good news, at least in so far as revealing that the plan to speed things up is still progressing. I was worried that it was simply proving impossible.

mp3guy

Spotted this new looking cabling on a pole at the edge of Carrigaline during the week, same old Eir stuff or does this look novel?

Orebro

KOR101 wrote: »

ESB may be asked to help with broadband roll-out

The government is investigating whether the ESB could be brought back into the fold to help complete the roll-out of the National Broadband Plan quicker than initially envisaged, the Business Post has learned.

The contract to deliver the multibillion-euro scheme was awarded to National Broadband Ireland (NBI), headed by David McCourt, the US businessman, late last year after a controversial procurement process. The scheme aims to deliver high-speed broadband to 540,000 premises across the country...

https://www.businesspost.ie/telecoms/esb-may-be-asked-to-help-with-broadband-roll-out-4cae629f

This is good news, at least in so far as revealing that the plan to speed things up is still progressing. I was worried that it was simply proving impossible.

Can anyone see behind that paywall for the rest of the story?

BArra

mp3guy wrote: »

Spotted this new looking cabling on a pole at the edge of Carrigaline during the week, same old Eir stuff or does this look novel?

thats ducting thats spooled, fibre will go into it and a distribution box likely to be installed on that pole

whether its nbi or eir ifn is unknown though

KOR101

The Government is considering drafting the ESB back in speed up the provision of broadband to 540,000 homes and businesses around the Republic, The Sunday Business Post reports.

National Broadband Ireland, led by US businessman, David McCourt, last year won a contract to provide the service to more than half a million properties within seven years, following a controversial bidding process.

The newspaper reports that the Government has approached State-owned ESB to aid National Broadband Ireland by allowing it access to the power company’s infrastructure, to speed up the construction of the new telecoms network. The ESB pulled out of the race to provide the service in 2017.

Earlier this year, former communications minister, Richard Bruton, raised the possibility of reducing the roll-out period to five from seven years. The Sunday Business Post reported last month that National Broadband Ireland had said it could significantly speed up the work.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/government-considers-drafting-esb-to-speed-up-broadband-provision-1.4342191

clohamon

KOR101 wrote: »

The Government is considering drafting the ESB back in speed up the provision of broadband to 540,000 homes and businesses around the Republic, The Sunday Business Post reports.
...
The newspaper reports that the Government has approached State-owned ESB to aid National Broadband Ireland by allowing it access to the power company’s infrastructure, to speed up the construction of the new telecoms network. The ESB pulled out of the race to provide the service in 2017.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/government-considers-drafting-esb-to-speed-up-broadband-provision-1.4342191

NBI can just ask for access to ESB's network (though they'd have to be specific about where, and pay a fair and reasonable price) and ESB would have to provide a reasonable reason why not. The same obligation applies to a rights' holder on the ESB network such as SIRO.

Access to other networks to install elements of high-speed public communications network
6. (1) Subject to these Regulations, a public communications network operator has, upon request, the right to access the physical infrastructure of a network and install elements of a high-speed public communications network on the physical infrastructure of the other network.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/si/391/made/en/print

Seeing as they've already given access to SIRO it would be hard to deny the same access to NBI unless ESB can give some reason under the regulations, one of which is that NBI has alternatives - SIRO and Openeir.

(4) A refusal or limitation of access, in whole or in part, to the physical infrastructure of a network shall be based on an objective, transparent or proportionate reason which may include, but is not limited to—
...
(g) the availability of viable alternative means of wholesale physical network infrastructure access provided by the other network operator and suitable for the provision of high-speed electronic communications networks provided that such access is offered under fair and reasonable terms and conditions,

KOR101

And there was no sign that any of that had made the slightest bit of difference before now.

Approaching the ESB to help out in an emergency may be different, but it could just be another story made up from a straw in the wind.

theguzman

It would sense to string fibre into rural houses along the ESB poles where there is no existing telephone poles running already. There would be many examples of houses only served by the ESB and not by OpenEIR poles. I wouldn't have an idea of how many but it would be a small enough number in the greater 550k rollout. For example alot of the Black Valley in Co. Kerry have no landline service just FWA Rurtel and lately mobile service. Stringing fibre along the electric poles in these situation would be prudent.

heavydawson

Orebro wrote: »

Can anyone see behind that paywall for the rest of the story?

Yup, here ya go

The government is investigating whether the ESB could be brought back into the fold to help complete the roll-out of the National Broadband Plan quicker than initially envisaged, the Business Post has learned.

The contract to deliver the multibillion-euro scheme was awarded to National Broadband Ireland (NBI), headed by David McCourt, the US businessman, late last year after a controversial procurement process. The scheme aims to deliver high-speed broadband to 540,000 premises across the country within seven years.

The ESB was one of the original bidders for the NBP through Siro, its joint venture with Vodafone. It pulled out in 2017 after 300,000 premises were removed from the plan.

Earlier this year Richard Bruton, the former communications minister, raised the possibility of reducing the roll-out period from seven years to five, while the Business Post last month revealed that NBI had told operators it believed it could “significantly” speed-up the roll-out of the broadband network.

Documents seen by this newspaper now show that the ESB has been approached in this regard.

Its involvement would allow NBI access to the company’s infrastructure around the country and potentially speed up the pace of deploying the network.

A briefing note drawn up for the minister in mid-June, just before the new government was formed, advised that NBI was “investigating the feasibility of accelerating the fibre deployment project and are identifying the contractual implications of an accelerated approach”.

“The objective is to examine whether it is feasible to bring forward at least some premises currently scheduled in years seven and six.

“This may result in some premises being brought forward by a number of months from where they are currently scheduled in the programme,” officials wrote.

They added that a number of steps were being taken to determine if some of the “key constraints in the project” could be alleviated.

Part of this work included “engagement with ESB to investigate the potential to utilise the ESB Networks for certain areas during the deployment”.

In response to queries on the document, a spokesman for the ESB said it was a “hard no comment” from the semi-state but added that the ESB supported the NBP and recognised its importance to rural Ireland.

NBI did not respond to a request for comment.

A spokeswoman for the Department of Communications said NBI was continuing to explore a “range of options with relevant stakeholders that could result in an acceleration of the network build” and was engaging with the department on the matter. An update would be provided to Eamon Ryan, the Minister for Communications, in the near future, she added.

A report carried out by the Oireachtas communications committee, which included Eamon Ryan, last year recommended that the government “re-engage” with the commercial semi-state to examine “the best model for delivery of a new National Broadband Plan through the ESB”.

Both Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil also urged the previous government to re-engage with the ESB prior to the contract being awarded to NBI.

Launching his party’s local election campaign in May 2019, Micheál Martin, the then opposition leader, said Fianna Fáil would set up an agency within the ESB to deliver the project.

Leo Varadkar, the taoiseach at the time and Martin’s current Tánaiste, dismissed the suggestion saying it wouldn’t “work as quickly and could cost even more”.

Other steps being taken as part of the review include bringing forward the procurement of additional subcontractors; a review of “the additional capacity of resourcing required in the NBI organisation”; and engagement with Eir to investigate the rate at which it could make ready its infrastructure upon which NBI’s roll-out depends.

Eir’s poles and ducts will be used by the new network. Eir also declined to comment.

According to the briefing note, the review was due to be completed in July or August while “any contractual impacts such as the timing of subsidy payments etc will also be identified” by it.

A heavily redacted copy of the contract for the multi-billion euro scheme was published last week, nine months after it was signed.

Thirteen whole sections were not published due to “commercial sensitivities”, while the 1,400 pages made public contained 6,758 redactions.

heavydawson

There was also a separate opinion piece about the publishing of the NBP contract in the Business Post. The Author has historically been anti-NBP (at least in its current form), but I have to admit, he is correct about the lack of transparency:
https://www.businesspost.ie/tech-insight/national-broadband-plan-contract-release-misses-the-point-f6936b07

Lack of transparency is not a good look these days, and the release of the heavily-redacted National Broadband Plan (NBP) contract could not have landed at a worse time.

Poring over the lengthy document poses an enormous challenge, even with huge swathes missing or redacted. The rationale given for the redactions is perfectly reasonable: the information is considered commercially sensitive.

But no matter what National Broadband Ireland (NBI), the company managing the scheme, would like to think, that simply doesn‘t cut it. The gargantuan document was released without any fanfare on Tuesday evening, right as the nation was hitting the climax of the Phil Hogan drama that had engulfed it for a week.

Everything about this looks dreadful. There was no announcement in advance, and large parts of the 1,500-page contract have not been made available at all.

The most notable parts to get the full chop are the sections around key sub-contractor provisions and personnel. The areas around subsidy payments and operational performance have been redacted heavily.

If this was any other publicly tendered contract at any other time, the deal would likely have found more forgiving eyes. These are the very definition of interesting times and this has been one of the most debated government plans in recent years.

Transparency is expected and the NBP promises to be a defining piece of infrastructure for generations to come. Grandiose comparisons to rural electrification were made by the last government, which was a touch excessive, although more so because it understated the societal impact of rural electrification.

In fairness to those who championed the NBP when it was going through the rigours of multiple reassessments and regular withdrawals from would-be bidders, the potential impact for smaller towns and villages in Ireland is enormous.

In a world where working remotely has become the norm out of necessity, the ability to work anywhere as a matter of convenience could reinvigorate many regions.

That promise, however, must come with clarity on how the project is being delivered and with the details open to scrutiny.

NBI and the people involved with the business really didn’t expect to be in quite this position. Throughout the process, right up until there was only one bidder left, there was industry consensus on one issue: everyone in the telecoms sector expected the NBP to be divided in two.

Most of those at the top of Irish telcos thought Eir would be one of the two contract holders, but even those who envisioned an NBP without Eir fully expected it to be a split deal.

The rationale was simple, half the load was easier to manage than all of it. Even the companies that didn’t so much as flirt with the tendering process considered it this way.

Instead, a series of messes occurred as cost overruns plus ideological arguments over fibre to the home, a line the last government would not cross, led to there being only one preferred bidder at the end.

In the short term and probably the medium term too, the fibre-to-the-home opponents will likely look smart. The last mile in rural areas has been the breaking point cost-wise. The solutions offered as alternatives were fine stop gaps but didn’t go the whole way.

With infrastructure, like buying a bed, it’s best not to stop short of the best solution. Fibre to the home is a more expensive project but one that will make future projects much cheaper as they can build on that infrastructure.

The government stuck with the plan to deliver fibre to the home, which was the goal from the outset, but it took a long time to get over the line. The delays to the NBP long predate Covid-19 but have been exacerbated by it. The pandemic has also shown the increased need for connectivity nationwide.

The contract needed to be sorted with expediency, but this is exactly the time to push for maximum transparency. After all this waiting, with so much from the public purse having already been spent and billions more to come, the government and NBI need to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

We will all benefit from the NBP. We will all pay for the NBP. We must all be allowed to know what makes up the NBP.

Pique

Everything about this looks dreadful. There was no announcement in advance, and large parts of the 1,500-page contract have not been made available at all.

I do agree with the main point, but this part is incorrect. There was an announcement 2 weeks prior that the contract would be released. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/government-to-publish-broadband-contract-nine-months-after-controversial-deal-1.4328461?mode=amp

heavydawson

Another opinion piece (from yesterday) from the Irish Times on the contract:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-national-broadband-plan-contract-devil-may-lie-in-unknown-detail-1.4342224

A heavily redacted version of the contract for the National Broadband Plan (NBP) was published last week, nine months after the controversial €3 billion project was given the go-ahead. The Government signed off on the plan last November after a protracted bidding process, which produced only one bidder and a sequence of delays and controversies, including the resignation of former minister for communications Denis Naughten.

The 25-year contract requires National Broadband Ireland (NBI) – the vehicle set up by winning bidder US firm Granahan McCourt – to deliver high-speed broadband to 542,000 mainly rural homes and premises.

Those who campaigned to have the contract published will be disappointed, however, as large swathes of the 2,200-page document were withheld for commercial reasons. Of the 50 schedules in the contract, 13 were fully redacted and 16 were partially redacted and just 21 were published in full. Crucial details about subsidy payments were withheld, as were details about “performance levels” and “operational performance”.

Under the contract, the maximum possible cost to the State is €3 billion over 25 years, which includes VAT of €355 million that is returned to the State and a contingency fund of €545 million, which is subject to strict drawdown conditions. The price tag works out at roughly €6,000 per household, making it, by far, the most expensive State contract ever awarded to a third party.

And the State will not own the network after the contract concludes. That’s the bit that most people find difficult to comprehend, particularly when the contractor is stumping up just €220 million in equity and working capital to fund it..

From the start, the Department of Communications took an incredibly legalistic approach to the tender, tying bidders up in mountains of paperwork. Combined with the cost of deploying an expensive fibre network across a complex tapestry of one-off housing, this appeared to spook the industry here, resulting in the exit of pre-race favourites Eir and ESB-Vodafone joint venture Siro. This left just one bidder and the Government effectively over a barrel on price.

Many will link the State’s broadband woes to the privatisation of Eir’s predecessor, Telecom Éireann, in the late 1990s. Instead of bringing private sector efficiency, Eircom and then Eir was tossed back and forth by private sector interests, landed with mountains of debt and drained of resources when the industry was going through the most transformative process in over a century, the shift to digitalisation. Ironically Eir will benefit from the NBP by about €1 billion over the 25-year term as the contractor – in this case NBI – has to lease much of the former semi state’s infrastructure – poles and ducts – to get at the homes and businesses in the intervention area.

clohamon

heavydawson wrote: »

Another opinion piece (from yesterday) from the Irish Times on the contract:

From the start, the Department of Communications took an incredibly legalistic approach to the tender, tying bidders up in mountains of paperwork. Combined with the cost of deploying an expensive fibre network across a complex tapestry of one-off housing, this appeared to spook the industry here, resulting in the exit of pre-race favourites Eir and ESB-Vodafone joint venture Siro. This left just one bidder and the Government effectively over a barrel on price.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-national-broadband-plan-contract-devil-may-lie-in-unknown-detail-1.4342224

You're right about it being an opinion piece.

oscarBravo

"...the Department of Communications took an incredibly legalistic approach to the tender..."

I'm curious what approach the author would have preferred they take.

Pique

clohamon wrote: »

You're right about it being an opinion piece.

I dunno what point the author is trying to make with that piece tbh. It sits in both camps and none.

listermint

oscarBravo wrote: »

"...the Department of Communications took an incredibly legalistic approach to the tender..."

I'm curious what approach the author would have preferred they take.

Write it in silly stupid so that a journalist who forms opinions in seconds can understand it....

clohamon

Pique wrote: »

I dunno what point the author is trying to make with that piece tbh. It sits in both camps and none.

The point they’re making is that it could have been done better, cheaper, quicker, somehow, by someone else, maybe Telecom Eireann if it still existed; and that it’s too much money to be giving to one company, and that nearly half of it is going to another company, and that European law can be ignored if it’s not convenient, and one-off houses are a bad thing.