Climate Conference

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

I've no affiliations to anyone if that's what you're insinuating. I've none to fert companies or none to seed companies, none to anyone.

The facts are carbon locks nitrogen in place in the soil. If you build your carbon you'll have to build your nitrogen.
Take it a step further and the only stable carbon is pyrolysis carbon.
All other can be released with someone with a plough. With the ensuing release of nitrogen.
The best that conventional farmers can do is gradually reduce their inputs by taking such measures while maintaining output.

I was at a talk recently by a limerick dairy farmer who's gone down the Korean natural farming route and he had to admit that a bit of nitrogen application works very well with the solutions. It increases the microbial life while at the same time you don't need the big inputs of fert if you weren't using knf.

He's gone totally organic knf and when asked would he go multi species sward? He answered why would he be spending money on seed and cultivation when he's able to achieve what he's achieving on his grass.

Any recommended reading on Korean natural farming? Never came across it

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Any recommended reading on Korean natural farming? Never came across it

I can't find any here. You'll get a JADAM book that's by the Korean natural farming founders son that uses some made up cheap remedies.
But the founders books are nigh on impossible to get. You'll get them in the U.S.

That farmer from limerick I mentioned the best he was able to research about here was watch Chris Trump videos on YouTube.
He wasn't getting the full experience of it. So he sold his meal feeders out of the milking parlour and went out to the U.S. and did the course with Chris Trump.

Edit: There's a few Korean natural farming Facebook groups that are very active.
And there's a probiotic farmers alliance group that's very similar.

patsy_mccabe

https://twitter.com/FarmlandCA/status/1221931097669488640

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I meant that N accounted for a third of agricultural ghg emissions Chief.

If the methane emissions from ruminants aren’t being correctly accounted for, then N will account for a significantly larger percentage of Ag ghg emissions in Ireland.

Changes in the accounting of methane seem to be incoming.
https://twitter.com/YaleFES/status/1223356262764642304?s=19

Buford T. Justice XIX

Hedgerows sequester 50% more carbon than forestry. Paddy Wall.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-our-hedgerows-be-a-greater-sink-than-source-of-greenhouse-gases/
This could be an interesting game changer. I haven't been able to track down the source yet but I'm fairly sure it'll appear before long.

There's going to be a fair few of this type of finding coming out in the next year or so, so I hear.

Water John

That's good and great to have Paddy Wall making your case.
Their must be a major serious tranche of research done in all these area as they effect farming. It is the most important thing for all out 3rd level institutions, NGOs and private industry to combine and get a fully fact based research into the public domain and underpin policy.

Birdnuts

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Hedgerows sequester 50% more carbon than forestry. Paddy Wall.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-our-hedgerows-be-a-greater-sink-than-source-of-greenhouse-gases/
This could be an interesting game changer. I haven't been able to track down the source yet but I'm fairly sure it'll appear before long.

There's going to be a fair few of this type of finding coming out in the next year or so, so I hear.

Proper maintenance and management would increase that further eg. A shaped hedges that are at least 7ft high and only "trimmed" on a 3-5 year rotational basis are by far the best for wildlife,shelter etc. Unfortunately this is yet another area were Teagasc at al are failing Irish farmers and our natural heritage:(

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Hedgerows sequester 50% more carbon than forestry. Paddy Wall.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/could-our-hedgerows-be-a-greater-sink-than-source-of-greenhouse-gases/
This could be an interesting game changer. I haven't been able to track down the source yet but I'm fairly sure it'll appear before long.

There's going to be a fair few of this type of finding coming out in the next year or so, so I hear.

It's a pity that on most teagasc farms hedges tend to be in short supply

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Proper maintenance and management would increase that further eg. A shaped hedges that are at least 7ft high and only "trimmed" on a 3-5 year rotational basis are by far the best for wildlife,shelter etc. Unfortunately this is yet another area were Teagasc at al are failing Irish farmers and our natural heritage:(

Any demonstrations on hedge maintenance that I've been at are poorly attended, Reps had us all cutting them every 3 years, but cheaper and tidier now to do annually

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's a pity that on most teagasc farms hedges tend to be in short supply

Same on most well developed farms around here, ditches were all taken in the 80s.

It would suit a lot of situations if hedgerows were brought back, maybe as part of greening or some such measure.

Definitely suit me anyway:)

Mooooo

Those of ye that have put hedges along roadways does it negatively effect the roadway much in terms of drying, extra maintenance etc?

jaymla627

Mooooo wrote: »

Those of ye that have put hedges along roadways does it negatively effect the roadway much in terms of drying, extra maintenance etc?

If, their is drains each side and sloped to drains their is zero issue but if in derogation your not allowed to do this re run-off, have a roadway here that's a disaster with hedges each side that isn't drained like above due to running streams both sides and it's a disaster in wet weather

Castlekeeper

Mooooo wrote: »

Those of ye that have put hedges along roadways does it negatively effect the roadway much in terms of drying, extra maintenance etc?

All our passages are alongside ditches at one side, once it's properly built and above the level of the field it makes no difference.
Our main one is actually between two old ditches along the path of an old road but it's up to 20' wide so again, as it was cambered when surfaced, it's trouble free.

Capercaillie

wrangler wrote: »

Any demonstrations on hedge maintenance that I've been at are poorly attended, Reps had us all cutting them every 3 years, but cheaper and tidier now to do annually

The "tidier" hedges decimate biodiversity. Hedgerows that are too short and not wide enough, do not provide good nesting habitat for hedgerow birds to nest. Annually maintenance leads to practically zero fruit production. Trimming every year will make hedgerow trees more susceptible to disease and they will not live as long.

According to GWCT it is best for wildlife to cut hedges on 3-4 year rotation.

Toplink

Birdnuts wrote: »

Proper maintenance and management would increase that further eg. A shaped hedges that are at least 7ft high and only "trimmed" on a 3-5 year rotational basis are by far the best for wildlife,shelter etc. Unfortunately this is yet another area were Teagasc at al are failing Irish farmers and our natural heritage:(

The ludicrous part of the GLAS Scheme was that as part of the 'Stone Wall Maintenance' option the majority of farmers ended up clearing a significant amount of mature hedging.

tractorporn

Capercaillie wrote: »

The "tidier" hedges decimate biodiversity. Hedgerows that are too short and not wide enough, do not provide good nesting habitat for hedgerow birds to nest. Annually maintenance leads to practically zero fruit production. Trimming every year will make hedgerow trees more susceptible to disease and they will not live as long.

According to GWCT it is best for wildlife to cut hedges on 3-4 year rotation.

Do people cut all hedgerows annually? Only the roadside hedges done here annually and some internal hedges were done last year for the first time in 25 years. It will be another 20/30 years before they are done again too. We have very little road frontage so maybe that's the difference.

yosemitesam1

tractorporn wrote: »

Do people cut all hedgerows annually? Only the roadside hedges done here annually and some internal hedges were done last year for the first time in 25 years. It will be another 20/30 years before they are done again too. We have very little road frontage so maybe that's the difference.

Lots of people cut the internal ones or spray them. Low hanging fruit from a biodiversity POV that makes very little difference

Mooooo

It's being brought in that a section can only be cut once every 3 years I'm nearly sure. A lot of mine are along a narrow road so I tend to do them in the autumn once open period comes in if contractor can. Have no choice with road really. Don't cut internal ditches often.

patsy_mccabe

Global emissions per capita - breakdown by country.

alps

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Global emissions per capita.

IT'S all the cows in Qatar are driving that sky high..All 18,000 of them

patsy_mccabe

alps wrote: »

IT'S all the cows in Qatar are driving that sky high..All 18,000 of them

What will total global emissions be like when all those poor countries become developed?

Neddyusa

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's a pity that on most teagasc farms hedges tend to be in short supply

Nail on the head.
Because all the Teagasc farms took out their internal hedges in the 70s and 80s they are reluctant to promote rewarding farmers for good hegderow management.

Parishlad

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Global emissions per capita - breakdown by country.

How is Trinidad & Tobago so high I wonder?

Just interested as I have an Aunt living there.

alps

Parishlad wrote: »

How is Trinidad & Tobago so high I wonder?

Just interested as I have an Aunt living there.

Weed

Parishlad

alps wrote: »

Weed

Excellent!

patsy_mccabe

An informed opinion;

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/of-the-560-trillion-grams-of-methane-emitted-every-year-550-are-removed/

Buford T. Justice XIX

The proceedings from the recent reducing greenhouse gasses conference in Moorepark can be found in the link below.

https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2020/reducing-greenhouse-gases-event---teagasc-moorepark.php

Grueller

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

An informed opinion;

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/of-the-560-trillion-grams-of-methane-emitted-every-year-550-are-removed/

I know that man fairly well. I played football and hurling against him for years. A seriously intelligent fellow and would be a superb spokesman for agriculture in the climate change debate.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Another one of those inconvenient truth that nobody talk about. All sectors bar transport have reduced their emissions since 1990.

https://twitter.com/transenv/status/1234380419463667713?s=19

Pinsnbushings

Well lads took the plunge and sowed 3 acres with the attached mixture today. It's has couple more species than I had intended, initially was going with a ryegrass, clover, chicory and plantain mix but bit of mixup with grass supplier and coop this is what I ended up with.. Hadn't time with weather to change it, so I chanced it. Actually didn't get a chance to roll the field cause its after raining all evening.
Any advice or experience using a similar mix I'd appreciate.

Water John

I would say it's better with the Timothy and Fescue in the mix.
White clover stays close to the ground and suited for grazing.
Red clover grows vertical and more suits meadow. If grazed tightly it will die out.

Not sure you meant it for this thread?

Pinsnbushings

Water John wrote: »

I would say it's better with the Timothy and Fescue in the mix.
White clover stays close to the ground and suited for grazing.
Red clover grows vertical and more suits meadow. If grazed tightly it will die out.

Not sure you meant it for this thread?

I know they have there strengths but I'd be a little concerned with palatability of the Timothy and the fescue.
This will be almost entirely grazing ground so I suppose it's possible the red clover won't persist in the sward.. As I say a pure experiment as Its all new to me, so I'd really appreciate any advice or help.

Ye sorry i'm not sure I've posted in the right thread, just remembered mss being discussed in this thread before. If the mods feel it's more suited to the reseeding stitching thread then maybe it could be moved.?

Water John

If it's sheep, then you can feed red or white clover seed to them in a bit of ration. They'll stitch it in for you.

Pinsnbushings

Water John wrote: »

If it's sheep, then you can feed red or white clover seed to them in a bit of ration. They'll stitch it in for you.

Never heard of that but sure it makes sense, would that work with grass seeds aswell? Unfortunately sheep all gone here now. It's a small herd of dairy cows will be grazing it primarily.
Will I get away without rolling it do you think? Weather is mixed for the next few days here and if the seeds are after germinating it would hardly be a good job to roll then. It wasnt ploughed, power harrow, land leveler and old pin harrow to level it out a bit and then sowed with the one pass.. Seed bed was quite firm.

Water John

The one pass will have covered it, don't roll if damp or wet. You can always roll it later when the grass is well established if you want.

Pinsnbushings

Ye that's kinda what I was thinking.

Dinzee Conlee

Water John wrote: »

The one pass will have covered it, don't roll if damp or wet. You can always roll it later when the grass is well established if you want.

Would agree - the rain will have made sure there is good contact between ground and seed now, so no need to roll...

I am reading a lot about sanfoin lately, it sounds like super stuff...

Best of luck... Keep us informed on how it goes for you.

Pinsnbushings

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would agree - the rain will have made sure there is good contact between ground and seed now, so no need to roll...

I am reading a lot about sanfoin lately, it sounds like super stuff...

Best of luck... Keep us informed on how it goes for you.

Thanks, ye I will put up a pictures when/if I have some progress..
Yes like I say the sainfoin wasn't in my plans initially, but like you been looking at some stuff on cotswolds seeds and YouTube and it does look like good feed.
Counteracts the risk oof bloat from the clover too.

Castlekeeper

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Thanks, ye I will put up a pictures when/if I have some progress..
Yes like I say the sainfoin wasn't in my plans initially, but like you been looking at some stuff on cotswolds seeds and YouTube and it does look like good feed.
Counteracts the risk oof bloat from the clover too.

Sainfoin grows on light alkaline soils such as chalk downs in southern England. I've never heard of it establish successfully here even in drought prone tillage land.

Castlekeeper

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Well lads took the plunge and sowed 3 acres with the attached mixture today. It's has couple more species than I had intended, initially was going with a ryegrass, clover, chicory and plantain mix but bit of mixup with grass supplier and coop this is what I ended up with.. Hadn't time with weather to change it, so I chanced it. Actually didn't get a chance to roll the field cause its after raining all evening.
Any advice or experience using a similar mix I'd appreciate.

Well done and lucky you, I would say that there's still way too much prg in it and not enough legumes!
The idea of a MSS is to feed itself and the soil through solar energy and symbiosis whilst producing highly palatable forage. The more diversity, the better chance of doing this over the year. A few grasses, herbs, and legumes is a good start, especially as we don't know much of what will suit different soils and systems yet.
You don't want to be going in with much or any synthetic fertilisers, as this is only setting the soil biology back, and so ryegrass have only a limited role as it is not a good grass if hungry. Also most grasslands are dominated with ryegrass especially anyway and so there should be a significant proportion in the ground to reestablish itself if it suits it.
Don't graze too tight or you'll stunt and weaken some species, say 1800-2000 down to 300-500 and try and stay above 25 day rotations.The mob grazers would leave it grow much longer and trample it but that's another story. Never mow below 7cm.
It'll be interesting anyway, best of luck.

Pinsnbushings

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Well done and lucky you, I would say that there's still way too much prg in it and not enough legumes!
The idea of a MSS is to feed itself and the soil through solar energy and symbiosis whilst producing highly palatable forage. The more diversity, the better chance of doing this over the year. A few grasses, herbs, and legumes is a good start, especially as we don't know much of what will suit different soils and systems yet.
You don't want to be going in with much or any synthetic fertilisers, as this is only setting the soil biology back, and so ryegrass have only a limited role as it is not a good grass if hungry. Also most grasslands are dominated with ryegrass especially anyway and so there should be a significant proportion in the ground to reestablish itself if it suits it.
Don't graze too tight or you'll stunt and weaken some species, say 1800-2000 down to 300-500 and try and stay above 25 day rotations.The mob grazers would leave it grow much longer and trample it but that's another story. Never mow below 7cm.
It'll be interesting anyway, best of luck.

Thanks for the feedback, you've a much better knowledge on this than me so great to get some tips.. Like a lot of things I do, I kinda jumped head first into it without a huge amount of research although it's been in the back of my mind to try it out over the last couple of years. I think we will all be heading down this road or something similar over the next number of years so hoping to learn a bit by trying it out.
Twill be interesting to see what will appear anyway.

Castlekeeper

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, you've a much better knowledge on this than me so great to get some tips.. Like a lot of things I do, I kinda jumped head first into it without a huge amount of research although it's been in the back of my mind to try it out over the last couple of years. I think we will all be heading down this road or something similar over the next number of years so hoping to learn a bit by trying it out.
Twill be interesting to see what will appear anyway.

It'll be the finest