new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

hmmm

ThePopehimself wrote: »

This is not about race, it is about her protecting her child from Coronavirus.

Stop shouting at me, you sound demented.

There's over a billion people in China, and the epidemic is centred in one area. The HSE has given reasonable advice, which both avoids panic and racism. If you're going to ignore that advice, you should be rightly called out for the consequences of your actions.

It's likely we will see this disease spread further around the world in the coming months, and we're going to have to deal with this without running away from anyone who doesn't have a big Irish head on them.

PhantomHat

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Have you ever been to China?

Our hospitals and A\E are pretty much full alot of the time and that presents a huge problem. We have a relatively small number of Intensive Care beds per head of population compared to other hospitals in Europe also.
Even though we are a very well developed and kitted out nation medically we are exceptionally short of bed space and a real worry should critical pneumonia cases start mounting.

VinLieger

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Whelp, that just burst my little hope bubble...

They're playing with stats then.
Including clinical diagnosis of viral pneumonia but not death from viral pneumonia?

Technically they aren't playing with the stats this is just the backwards ass way china catalogue deaths, they only list one of the potential multiple illnesses that led to the death.

What it reinforces though is that no numbers coming from china should be trusted in any regard as their reporting methodology is inherently flawed even before they might mess with the numbers.

PhantomHat

hmmm wrote: »

Stop shouting at me, you sound demented.

There's over a billion people in China, and the epidemic is centred in one area. The HSE has given reasonable advice, which both avoids panic and racism. If you're going to ignore that advice, you should be rightly called out for the consequences of your actions.

It's likely we will see this disease spread further around the world in the coming months, and we're going to have to deal with this without running away from anyone who doesn't have a big Irish head on them.

Should this virus spread like it is predicted we will eventually be double taking every nationality

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

What they've done is go back and reclassified people who died of ncov symptoms who tested negative, or didn't have a test, in the death statistics

That would be great, that would mean the guardian reporting was wrong ?!!?

Zenify

A&E in ireland has a lot of people that dont need to be there and it takes up doctors time from the people they really need to be seeing. If our hospitals start filling up with Covid-19 patients they will become a hell of a lot quieter. I'm not saying that our hospitals will cope but it will help.

Hector Savage

ThePopehimself wrote: »

Did you see lolanacho's OP?
The child returned from two months in China during the week and turned up to school the next day.

The IRISH mum's concern arose when she learned that the Chinese parents of the Chinese child are keeping him separate from his younger sibling until two weeks has passed for fear he could pass it to the younger sibling. He is currently staying with his grandparents. However, the Chinese parents are perfectly happy to send the child to school.

The mum spoke to the principal, who directed her to the official HSE line.She has decided to keep her son out of school until she too feels it is safe.

So with regard to your opening line to Lolancho 'God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you.'

THE IRISH MUM IS DOING NO MORE AND NO LESS THAN THE CHINESE PARENTS ARE DOING FOR THE YOUNGER SIBLING. She is isolating her child.

This is not about race, it is about her protecting her child from Coronavirus.

Damn you and your sense !!!

@hmmm get back to screaming racist at anyone that doesn;t share your narrow world view.

VinLieger

hmmm wrote: »

Stop shouting at me, you sound demented.

There's over a billion people in China, and the epidemic is centred in one area. The HSE has given reasonable advice, which both avoids panic and racism. If you're going to ignore that advice, you should be rightly called out for the consequences of your actions.

It's likely we will see this disease spread further around the world in the coming months, and we're going to have to deal with this without running away from anyone who doesn't have a big Irish head on them.

Theres is 3 other chinese provinces with 1000+ cases now which is all wuhan had 30 days ago, and 6 others with 500 +, the HSE are weeks behind with their guidance by still pretending the only place you could be infected is wuhan

PhantomHat

Zenify wrote: »

A&E in ireland has a lot of people that dont need to be there and it takes up doctors time from the people they really need to be seeing. If our hospitals start filling up with Covid-19 patients they will become a hell of a lot quieter. I'm not saying that our hospitals will cope but it will help.

That's a good point. It should alleviate things a bit.

Hector Savage

hmmm wrote: »

Stop shouting at me, you sound demented.

There's over a billion people in China, and the epidemic is centred in one area. The HSE has given reasonable advice, which both avoids panic and racism. If you're going to ignore that advice, you should be rightly called out for the consequences of your actions.

It's likely we will see this disease spread further around the world in the coming months, and we're going to have to deal with this without running away from anyone who doesn't have a big Irish head on them.

No, they are speaking absolute sense here, you're the one that sounds demented.

VinLieger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That would be great, that would mean the guardian reporting was wrong ?!!?

Theres no way this new number is anything close to accurate considering how many have died up until now and the tiny number they have just adjusted for.

The best example of why you shouldnt trust chinas numbers is with a population of 1.3 billion they only recorded 200 flu related deaths last year, the US recorded 61000

lolanacho

lolanacho wrote: »

This is the advise .......

You keep posting here, Lola.

Your questions and concerns are warranted and most sane people posting understand that.

@hmmm

Rather than jumping down a concerned parents throat, could you not have taken the opportunity to ask them to rephrase their description of the family?

You could have politely said that it may be better to say “the family that returned from China instead of calling them the Chinese family”.

Lola may have been able to reply “oh god, you’re correct. I never meant any offence. I’ll take note of that in future.” But you jumped in all guns blazing and I hope you haven’t made her feel like she cannot post anymore.

Drumpot

Why do we do fire drills in schools ? There is a fire alarm, smoker detectors and a good chance somebody will see smoke/fire long before it goes near anybody. The probability of a fire is extremely low, certainly in most peoples lifetimes. But we do it so if there is a crisis or a fire, the children (and teachers) will have the knowledge and confidence to not panic and leave the exposed area in as calm a manner as possible. This will hopefully reduce casualties. It also makes it easier to count who has survived and who may still be stuck in the building, this helps our fire services potentially save somebody. We can use our resources better when there is order during a crisis.

This is common sense approach to training people to have a plan if something happens that could lead to panic. I do not understand why we are not taking the same approach to the virus in schools and even with a weekly public broadcast while its unclear how its going to play out. Maybe it wont be so bad here, but I think this is the perfect opportunity to start using it as an opportunity to educate people and work on better communication strategies for future crisis.

RebelButtMunch

pc7 wrote: »

I'm feeling a bit more hopeful that the spread outside China is so low. Any experts here? Could it be a case Wuhan etc. is so bad perhaps as the virus was stronger when first infections occurred? Now a few months on its not as bad?

The virus stronger? I don't think so, why would you think a virus can be stronger?

I'd imagine it's to do with population density and behavior and being behind the curve in terms of isolation.

I still think when it gets into india / africa it'll be chaos.

hmmm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Rather than jumping down a concerned parents throat, could you not have taken the opportunity to ask them to rephrase their description of the family?

Thanks for your unwanted advice.

Taking your kids out of school, against HSE advice, because of a Chinese kid is a form of racism in my opinion.

I know it's fashionable these days to start talking about liberal snowflakes and the like, but it doesn't change what it is.

We all want to protect our kids, but our kids are best served by parents not panicking every time there is a new scare, and not teaching our kids to avoid people who look different to them. In a big school there is probably kids who are not Chinese who may have been to China, or have parents who have been travelling to and from China - any of them could have become infected.

Waste of time trying to have a civilised conversation with you.

pc7

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

The virus stronger? I don't think so, why would you think a virus can be stronger?

.

Stronger probably the wrong word, virulent? I know Corona viruses can mutate, so was sup-positioning that perhaps that's what has happened in this case as we are still seeing small numbers outside of China.

VinLieger

hmmm wrote: »

Thanks for your unwanted advice.

Taking your kids out of school, against HSE advice, because of a Chinese kid is a form of racism in my opinion.

I know it's fashionable these days to start talking about liberal snowflakes and the like, but it doesn't change what it is.

We all want to protect our kids, but our kids are best served by parents not panicking every time there is a new scare, and not teaching our kids to avoid people who look different to them. In a big school there is probably kids who are not Chinese who may have been to China, or have parents who have been travelling to and from China - any of them could have become infected.

If it was white family who returned from china would it still be racist? Your argument is absurd , its not the nationality of the family that is the issue its where they have recently been so get your head out of your ass.

pc7

@hmmmm not sure if you are trolling, no one is being racist. The Chinese parents have kept the child from themselves and the sibling but find it ok to have them in a class with probably up to 30 kids, a yard with 100's. They are morons in my view for sending that child to school while staying away themselves, selfish morons. If that makes me a racist, well first the first time in my 40 odd years I am one! If the child was as white as a hounds tooth and back from China I would expect the parents to isolate them at home, not in school.

partyguinness

I think it is reasonable to suggest that China has downplayed this big time.

I did find it peculiar that they decided to build a hospital in 6 days. I mean who the hell decides to build a new hospital in 6 days just like that.

Either they the Chinese were being super cautious or the situation was far worse than they were letting on.

I recall my poor sister live in China for a year about 8 years ago and ended up in hospital in China for a week with some sort of bug (something like an horrendous flu). She was given all sorts of injections etc and to this day still has no idea what she had as nobody explained anything to her.

Duke of Url

partyguinness wrote: »

I think it is reasonable to suggest that China has downplayed this big time.

I did find it peculiar that they decided to build a hospital in 6 days. I mean who the hell decides to build a new hospital in 6 days just like that.

Either they the Chinese were being super cautious or the situation was far worse than they were letting on.

I recall my poor sister live in China for a year about 8 years ago and ended up in hospital in China for a week with some sort of bug (something like an horrendous flu). She was given all sorts of injections etc and to this day still has no idea what she had as nobody explained anything to her.

Boll0x.

China has downplayed nothing.

VinLieger

Duke of Url wrote: »

Boll0x.

China has downplayed nothing.

Except all of the stats

partyguinness

Duke of Url wrote: »

Boll0x.

China has downplayed nothing.

Yeah I forgot. China has always been a beacon of transparency and honesty. The powers that be have never sought to strictly control or censor information in and out of the country. My bad for suggesting otherwise.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Prof John Oxford from Queen Mary University said:
I think we have to galvanise ourselves in our social actions – how we interact with people. And I think that is extremely important; more so than wearing a mask. I think that’s a total diversion.
What we need to do is less of the handshaking, hugging, kissing, that sort of thing,  **because this virus looks like it’s spread by ordinary tidal breathing, not necessarily colds and coughing.**

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-valentines-day-hugging-kissing-symptoms-outbreak-a9332976.html

Duke of Url

VinLieger wrote: »

Except all of the stats

They reported on people who they confirmed had the virus using test kits.

Duke of Url

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah I forgot. China has always been a beacon of transparency and honesty. The powers that be have never sought to strictly control or censor information in and out of the country. My bad for suggesting otherwise.

Do you actually talk to anyone in China?

partyguinness

Duke of Url wrote: »

They reported on people who they confirmed had the virus using test kits.

Do you take everything at face value without question?

ChikiChiki

hmmm wrote: »

God it must be awful to be a Chinese person at the moment having to deal with people like you. I feel so sorry for that student and what they must be going through.

The Department of Health are putting out level-headed guidance and the last thing we need is uninformed and panicky people deciding themselves what the best actions to take are. Hopefully the school authorities will make it clear that this won't be tolerated.

The exact attitude of when it gets here, why it will be an unmitigated disaster. Attitudes like this will be responsible for deaths.

Prevention needs to start now. Any person(s) of any race, age or creed should be quarantined for 3 weeks upon returning from China. Period.

Also HSE and level headed definitely do not go well together.:o

Sephiroth_dude

Mod

A_Lost_Man thread banned.

Duke of Url

partyguinness wrote: »

Do you take everything at face value without question?

Do you?

How many flu cases are in Ireland each year?

Wibbs

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

insert daft text here

:pac::pac::pac: Eh... :D:D No. "strong in blood". Jesus. Welcome to the Middle Ages. Fuck me I've read some idiotic stuff in my time, but you win this months prize. I could try to inform you of some of the realities of population diversity and immune response, but I fear it would be like pouring a ten gallon drum into a pint glass. But to keep it simple for you: No, it doesn't work like that.

partyguinness

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-china-not-being-honest-says-us-as-wartime-measures-widened

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

Talking to my friend tonight in Shanghai, she made a very good point:

- China has the largest smoking population in the world, around 30% of the population smokes. Smoking causes reduced lung capacity, reduced lung health and lower immunity in general.

Which is bad news if you get a respiratory illness which Covid-19 is.

This may explain according to her, somewhat, the high death rate in China, when other countries the death to infected ratio is much lower.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont know why people keep saying its not dangerous outside China, 27 people are in serious or critical condition, thats 4.5% of all international patients experiecing complications, and the mortality rate is 0.5% which is still significant, and the same as mainland China outside of Hubei. While a lot of Chinese people smoke , their population is not very old, the greatest risk factor is age, and so countries like Japan and germany and most of the west really are in more danger for that reason

Duke of Url

partyguinness wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-china-not-being-honest-says-us-as-wartime-measures-widened

A senior White House official has called on Beijing to be more transparent over its handling of the coronavirus outbreak as Chinese authorities expanded “wartime” measures to limit its spread.

“We are a little disappointed that we haven’t been invited in and we’re a little disappointed in the lack of transparency coming from the Chinese,” said Larry Kudlow, the director of the US National Economic Council.

lol

Again I ask you. How many Flu cases are in Ireland each year?

Hector Savage

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah I forgot. China has always been a beacon of transparency and honesty. The powers that be have never sought to strictly control or censor information in and out of the country. My bad for suggesting otherwise.

Careful now, don't want to be called a racist ...

VinLieger

Duke of Url wrote: »

They reported on people who they confirmed had the virus using test kits.

Jesus do i have to explain this again i suppose for maybe the 10th time.

China do not record deaths correctly, this is an indisputable fact. Heres an example, say you contracted coronavirus here and then got pneumonia and die of maybe organ failure. All 3 of those illnesses would be listed on your death cert and added to the statistics.

In China they record 1 of these, and its usually the direct cause of death, so in this case it would be organ failure and not any of the underlying causes that led to it like corona virus so we have no way to know how many have died due to it.

The best example of this is china with a population of 1.3 billion officially recorded less than 200 seasonal flu related deaths last year, the US with a population of 350 million had 61000.

wakka12

Several new cases in Hong Kong and Tokyo

BanditLuke

Lot more talk today about other nations asking the Chinese to be more open about what is happening in Wuhan. Really hard to know the present situation as a lot of the original bloggers seemed to have been shut down and the Chinese are putting out propaganda on social media platforms.

BanditLuke

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1581728882814000&usg=AFQjCNGD7BXJPfVEPrDa652pX-rcKNPPbg

Very interesting read.

The novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) is a recently emerged human pathogen that has spread widely since January 2020. Initially, the basic reproductive number, R0, was estimated to be 2.2 to 2.7. Here we provide a new estimate of this quantity. We collected extensive individual case reports and estimated key epidemiology parameters, including the incubation period. Integrating these estimates and high-resolution real-time human travel and infection data with mathematical models, we estimated that the number of infected individuals during early epidemic double every 2.4 days, and the R0 value is likely to be between 4.7 and 6.6. We further show that quarantine and contact tracing of symptomatic individuals alone may not be effective and early, strong control measures are needed to stop transmission of the virus.

partyguinness

Duke of Url wrote: »

lol

Again I ask you. How many Flu cases are in Ireland each year?

Why do you ask? Go and find out for yourself...

Duke of Url

partyguinness wrote: »

Why do you ask? Go and find out for yourself...

The HSE will give me a number of confirmed Flu cases.

Where do I find the number of people who had the flu but didnt go to the doctor or Hospital.

I dont think Ireland is being Transparent on the real number of Flu cases.

gozunda

hmmm wrote: »

Stop shouting at me, you sound demented.

There's over a billion people in China, and the epidemic is centred in one area. The HSE has given reasonable advice, which both avoids panic and racism. If you're going to ignore that advice, you should be rightly called out for the consequences of your actions.

It's likely we will see this disease spread further around the world in the coming months, and we're going to have to deal with this without running away from anyone who doesn't have a big Irish head on them.

Seriously?

Get a grip. It doesnt matter whether the child is from China or Mars or Ireland - the fact that the family returned from an area which is experiencing one the most serious outbreaks of a highly contagious disease is what is relevant. But just you keep going on the high horse there.

VinLieger

Duke of Url wrote: »

The HSE will give me a number of confirmed Flu cases.

Where do I find the number of people who had the flu but didnt go to the doctor or Hospital.

I dont think Ireland is being Transparent on the real number of Flu cases.

But they correctly record the number of deaths, we have more annually than china with a population of 0.3% vs them yet you still believe china are giving us the real statistics.

One of the people diagnosed with coronavirus in the **UK** attended a central London conference with more than 200 delegates, PA reports.

The person, who has not been named, attended the UK Bus Summit at the QEII Centre in Westminster on 6 February.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-latest-updates-wuhan-hubei-china-deaths-cruise-ship-sydney-cases-covid19-live-news

Not many steps away from bus drivers and mass transit

SeaBreezes

That resolved case to fatality percent still dropping, down to 16% after the latest adjustment.

The National Health Commission of China, in its February 14 official report, deducted 108 previously reported deaths and 1,043 previously reported cases from the total in Hubei Province due to "repeated statistics." We have updated the daily (Feb. 12 and Feb. 13) and cumulative totals accordingly

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#feb-14

pc7

Looks like the English are racist too father :pac: (please ignore source)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8003387/Coronavirus-panic-leaves-Londons-Chinese-district-empty.html

Duke of Url

VinLieger wrote: »

Jesus do i have to explain this again i suppose for maybe the 10th time.

China do not record deaths correctly, this is an indisputable fact. Heres an example, say you contracted coronavirus here and then got pneumonia and die of maybe organ failure. All 3 of those illnesses would be listed on your death cert and added to the statistics.

In China they record 1 of these, and its usually the direct cause of death, so in this case it would be organ failure and not any of the underlying causes that led to it like corona virus so we have no way to know how many have died due to it.

The best example of this is china with a population of 1.3 billion officially recorded less than 200 seasonal flu related deaths last year, the US with a population of 350 million had 61000.

The Death rates China are reporting based on people who were confirmed to have the Virus.

If you tested positive - got pneumonia you were added to the stats.

Should we add the deaths of people who tested negative who got pneumonia to the stats also?

VinLieger

Duke of Url wrote: »

The Death rates China are reporting based on people who were confirmed to have the Virus.

If you tested positive - got pneumonia you were added to the stats.

Should we add the deaths of people who tested negative who got pneumonia to the stats also?

Lol you believe they have done this honestly considering everything up until now. There is literally now way the tiny adjustment they made could correctly account for the real amount of deaths that the infection rate and critical care required to treat have likely caused.

Why do you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt after trying to cover this up, arrest doctors warning about it, misreporting statistics for weeks and refusing to let external observers in till very recently.

rosiem

hmmm wrote: »

Thanks for your unwanted advice.

Taking your kids out of school, against HSE advice, because of a Chinese kid is a form of racism in my opinion.

I know it's fashionable these days to start talking about liberal snowflakes and the like, but it doesn't change what it is.

We all want to protect our kids, but our kids are best served by parents not panicking every time there is a new scare, and not teaching our kids to avoid people who look different to them. In a big school there is probably kids who are not Chinese who may have been to China, or have parents who have been travelling to and from China - any of them could have become infected.

And do you consider the Chinese family themselves are also racist by segregating their children ???

SeaBreezes

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the people diagnosed with coronavirus in the **UK** attended a central London conference with more than 200 delegates, PA reports.

The person, who has not been named, attended the UK Bus Summit at the QEII Centre in Westminster on 6 February.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-latest-updates-wuhan-hubei-china-deaths-cruise-ship-sydney-cases-covid19-live-news

Not many steps away from bus drivers and mass transit

You couldn't make this sh*t up.. if it was in Dean R Koontz book it'd be deemed too fictional..

Was this one of the 'horsemen' bus drivers who had no masks and were sent home to self isolate for 10 days?