new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

igCorcaigh

skepticalme wrote: »

The diamond princess lack of infection contol . https://youtu.be/vtHYZkLuKcI

I hope the passengers sue for the dangerous conditions they were kept in. So badly handled.

Jim_Hodge

ZX7R wrote: »

An interesting point was made in conversation today with a colleague who's partner is Chinese, about the high number of male's been diagnosed, besides a lot are smoking, most male's are the only ones earning a wage in a house hold, so are less likely to go to a doctor if sick and continue to work.
Could be a external factor not taken into account.

Males working and therefore mixing more and in close contact with more people?

tara73

laurah591 wrote: »

China's economy must be under significant strain at this point. I wonder how long it will take to see serious impacts on global supply chains etc. How European auto manufacturers doing... did any one see?

very interested in that too, but it's very quiet about it me thinks. Don't hear anything except twice on tv today apple announced 'delays' in deliveries.

Must be thousands of other big or small companies effected too. Think they don't want to admit it yet or can still operate on warehouse stock and all hoping the crisis will dissolve in itself in a few days...

ZX7R

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Males working and therefore mixing more and in close contact with more people?

Could be a factor it spread so much at the start

wadacrack

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I hope the passengers sue for the dangerous conditions they were kept in. So badly handled.

WHO and Japan are using the cruise ship as an experiment it seems. Its why they never wanted a specialist doctor with years of experience(SARS,Ebola) on the ship. WHO never seemed that concerned about how easily it was spreading in any of their statements. Absolutely despicable .

SeaBreezes

wadacrack wrote: »

WHO and Japan are using the cruise ship as an experiment it seems. Its why they never wanted a specialist doctor with years of experience(SARS,Ebola) on the ship. WHO never seemed that concerned about how easily it was spreading in any of their statements. Absolutely despicable .

I would agree. They are the experts in infectious diseases. They needed a few direct case studies. They HAVE to have known keeping people on the ship would have inceased their chance at infection. What were they thinking? Was it deliberate?

Or perhaps they advised authorities of all this but the advice was ignored?

tara73

wadacrack wrote: »

WHO and Japan are using the cruise ship as an experiment it seems. Absolutely despicable .

I honestly don't think they did it on purpose as an experiment. It was the easiest deal for Japan and the different countries where the passengers are from: leave them on the ship, perfect quarantine conditions..:rolleyes:. Otherwise Tokyo had to provide quarantine ad hoc for over 3000 people or the different countries flying their citizens home and quarantine there. Would have taken some amount of time to organise that too. And money..
I think they thought (or more: hoped) it will work out to leave them on the ship.

hmmm

wadacrack wrote: »

WHO and Japan are using the cruise ship as an experiment it seems. Its why they never wanted a specialist doctor with years of experience(SARS,Ebola) on the ship. WHO never seemed that concerned about how easily it was spreading in any of their statements. Absolutely despicable .

Japan has said they did not have anywhere to put 3000 people into quarantine on land which is fair. Now they do, which is why they are moving people. I don't think there is any country which could cope with accommodating 3000 potentially infected people safely (even the US can only host a few hundred), it seemed at the time a better idea to keep them in individual rooms on the ship.

cnocbui

https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/chilling-new-virus-development/3947988/

A shortage of masks and protective equipment continues to compound the situation. Single-use protective gear is being reportedly re-used until it breaks, is patched up with duct-tape, and then torn beyond repair. Chinese social media posts reveal some hospital staff have resorted to wearing raincoats and garbage bags.

The article covers a lot of ground.

1641

tara73 wrote: »

very interested in that too, but it's very quiet about it me thinks. Don't hear anything except twice on tv today apple announced 'delays' in deliveries.

Must be thousands of other big or small companies effected too. Think they don't want to admit it yet or can still operate on warehouse stock and all hoping the crisis will dissolve in itself in a few days...

There are other reports too. Jaguar, JCB and Fiat mentioned here:


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51548976


I am sure there will be more soon.

1641

wadacrack wrote: »

WHO and Japan are using the cruise ship as an experiment it seems. Its why they never wanted a specialist doctor with years of experience(SARS,Ebola) on the ship. WHO never seemed that concerned about how easily it was spreading in any of their statements. Absolutely despicable .

I have heard several reports that they are looking for an island somewhere just off northern western Europe where there is no government in place to test out how it responds in a natural wet and windy environment. They are releasing it tonight apparently. Cover story will be that they are only trying to relieve the demand for housing.


Despicable, despicable, despicable.

old_aussie

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh, a huge number of the confirmed have no symptoms. I wonder does that mean they just havnt developed yet or if they are some of the people that simply do not ever experience symptoms with this virus? Crazy that it seems to be really deadly for some of the population and then some people dont even know they have it

Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 – November 11, 1938), also known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish cook. She was the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen associated with typhoid fever.

tuxy

1641 wrote: »

I have heard several reports that they are looking for an island somewhere just off northern eastern Europe where there is no government in place to test out how it responds in a natural wet and windy environment. They are releasing it tonight apparently. Cover story will be that they are only trying to relieve the demand for housing.


Despicable, despicable, despicable.

Have you been talking to my friend Kermit?

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes. Wuhan bio weapons lab is across the river from the supposed "origin".

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The CIA say it's the most advanced bio weapons facility in China.

Why do you think China put such extreme measures in place so quick?

igCorcaigh

hmmm wrote: »

Japan has said they did not have anywhere to put 3000 people into quarantine on land which is fair. Now they do, which is why they are moving people. I don't think there is any country which could cope with accommodating 3000 potentially infected people safely (even the US can only host a few hundred), it seemed at the time a better idea to keep them in individual rooms on the ship.

Sure, but it's a ship. It could have sailed to any place that had the capacity and release some passengers as they see fit. Instead it just stationed there with everyone locked in.

1641

tuxy wrote: »

Have you been talking to my friend Kermit?

How dare you! That's a conspiracy.

tuxy

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Sure, but it's a ship. It could have sailed to any place that had the capacity and release some passengers as they see fit. Instead it just stationed there with everyone locked in.

What countries were queuing up for the honour?

igCorcaigh

tuxy wrote: »

What countries were queuing up for the honour?

I know, only Cambodia took in the other one eventually. Seems a terrible way to treat people.

Zenify

1641 wrote: »

There are other reports too. Jaguar, JCB and Fiat mentioned here:


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51548976


I am sure there will be more soon.

I rang vodafone today to sign up to their mobile broadband. They said they had no modems in stock so cant sign me up. Only realised afterward that they are Huawei modems from china. Just another example.

Today I was speaking with the daughter of a doctor who is at the coal face of monitoring suspected cases in a small far flung country. It is his firmly held opinion that the Diamond Princess has become part of an organised experiment to study the virus, especially its mode of transmission.

fritzelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Today I was speaking with the daughter of a doctor who is at the coal face of monitoring suspected cases in a small far flung country. It is his firmly held opinion that the Diamond Princess has become part of an organised experiment to study the virus, especially its mode of transmission.

The WHO have said it will be for case studies in the future what happened there (so to speak) - and I kid you not they didn't expect it to spread

cnocbui

tuxy wrote: »

What countries were queuing up for the honour?

They didn't need another country. They have The Chichi Jima Naval base in the Ogasawara archipelago, 1000 km south of Japan, which would have taken the ship 1 day to reach. Also it would likely be warmer.

gozunda

tuxy wrote: »

Have you been talking to my friend Kermit?

Regardless of any conspiracy allegations - you do know that the Virology Laboratory in Wuhan (est. 1961) is the premier lab in China for investigation of bats and the Coronavirus yes?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mining-coronavirus-genomes-clues-outbreak-s-origins

hmmm

cnocbui wrote: »

They didn't need another country. They have The Chichi Jima Naval base in the Ogasawara archipelago, 1000 km south of Japan, which would have taken the ship 1 day to reach. Also it would likely be warmer.

My knowledge of the Chici Jima Naval Base is limited, but I imagine the Japanese knew more and didn't want 3000 potential infected people on their holidays who also need food and accommodation to be simply unloaded into one of their naval bases.

cnocbui

hmmm wrote: »

Japan has said they did not have anywhere to put 3000 people into quarantine on land which is fair. Now they do, which is why they are moving people. I don't think there is any country which could cope with accommodating 3000 potentially infected people safely (even the US can only host a few hundred), it seemed at the time a better idea to keep them in individual rooms on the ship.

Er, Australia can accommodate 2300 at the former Christmas Island detention centre. They could easily have accommodated the rest at any of senveral other facilities, like Manus Is.

tuxy

cnocbui wrote: »

They didn't need another country. They have The Chichi Jima Naval base in the Ogasawara archipelago, 1000 km south of Japan, which would have taken the ship 1 day to reach. Also it would likely be warmer.

I think another country was needed when Japan said there was nowhere (including Chichi Jima Naval base) for them to facilitated 3000+ quarantined and hundreds of medical staff.
There is no international law I know of that can force the Japanese to take the crew.

igCorcaigh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Today I was speaking with the daughter of a doctor who is at the coal face of monitoring suspected cases in a small far flung country. It is his firmly held opinion that the Diamond Princess has become part of an organised experiment to study the virus, especially its mode of transmission.

Well, I can't buy that, given that cruise ships are no model of any spread of an infectious agent in the wild.

These ships are notorious for novovirus spread for many years. All it tells us is how bugs spread on a cruise ship! And we have many examples of that.

Sorry, it seems to me to be a silly conjecture.

All of the properties of any epidemic are very much dependant on the environment in which the agent spreads.

cnocbui

hmmm wrote: »

My knowledge of the Chici Jima Naval Base is limited, but I imagine the Japanese knew more and didn't want 3000 potential infected people on their holidays who also need food and accommodation to be simply unloaded into one of their naval bases.

Yeah, they'd rather have to find 3000 beds in hospitals on the mainland. I think what's most important is what they should have done, not what they wanted or would have preferred.

hmmm

cnocbui wrote: »

Yeah, they'd rather have to find 3000 beds in hospitals on the mainland. I think what's most important is what they should have done, not what they wanted or would have preferred.

What a pity they didn't have Captain Hindsight on board to advise.

Kermit.de.frog

gozunda wrote: »

Regardless of any conspiracy allegations - you do know that the Virology Laboratory in Wuhan (est. 1961) is the premier lab in China for investigation of bats and the Coronavirus yes?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mining-coronavirus-genomes-clues-outbreak-s-origins

Of course he doesn't - Tuxy would rather bully another poster than doing his own research which is not difficult.

Google is your friend.

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course he doesn't - he'd rather bully another poster than doing his own research which is not difficult.

Google is your friend.

I can't find any info on the CIA declaring that China has any Bioweapons lab, let alone one in Wuhan. I understand google is my friend because it has confirmed you are a CT nut.
Why would asking for a source be considered bullying? Why are you so reluctant to quote your source?

gozunda wrote: »

Regardless of any conspiracy allegations - you do know that the Virology Laboratory in Wuhan (est. 1961) is the premier lab in China for investigation of bats and the Coronavirus yes?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mining-coronavirus-genomes-clues-outbreak-s-origins

I know this but there are people on here who will read that and start making up stories about the CIA

gozunda

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Well, I can't buy that, given that cruise ships are no model of any spread of an infectious agent in the wild.

These ships are notorious for novavirus spread for many years. All it tells us is how bugs spread on a cruise ship! And we have many examples of that.

Sorry, it seems to me to be a silly conjecture.

All of the properties of any epidemic are very much dependant on the environment in which the agent spreads.

Posted this previously ...

Researchers "studied norovirus outbreaks on cruises extensively and came to a striking finding in one paper: The researchers looked at norovirus outbreaks over time and found that whenever a new, fast-spreading variant was emerging, it was often accompanied by a big wave of outbreaks on cruise ships. In other words, what happened aboard was a signal that there was a larger outbreak on the ground. “ ...

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/11/21132732/coronavirus-cruise-ship-quarantine-japan

cnocbui

hmmm wrote: »

What a pity they didn't have Captain Hindsight on board to advise.

I said they should have off loaded the ship to an Island or shore based quarantine facility, like a military base, 8 days ago. I'd call that foresight.

citysights

Apologies if it’s already been posted here as haven’t read all thread but RTE are reporting that two Irish passengers on a cruise ship have the corona virus.

igCorcaigh

gozunda wrote: »

Posted this previously ...

Researchers "studied norovirus outbreaks on cruises extensively and came to a striking finding in one paper: The researchers looked at norovirus outbreaks over time and found that whenever a new, fast-spreading variant was emerging, it was often accompanied by a big wave of outbreaks on cruise ships. In other words, what happened aboard was a signal that there was a larger outbreak on the ground. “ ...

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/11/21132732/coronavirus-cruise-ship-quarantine-japan

Yes, agreed. That's about detection of an outbreak.

My point is that how a bug spreads on a ship is no proxy for how it will spread in the wild, so the idea of conducting a macabre ship experiment in order to study the virus makes no sense.

cnocbui

tuxy wrote: »

I can't find any info on the CIA declaring that China has any Bioweapons lab, let alone one in Wuhan. I understand google is my friend because it has confirmed you are a CT nut.
Why would asking for a source be considered bullying? Why are you so reluctant to quote your source?

I know this but there are people on here who will read that and start making up stories about the CIA

A supposed ex-Israeli intelligence officer made the allegation:

the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

According to Dany Shoham, a former Israeli military intelligence officer now at Israel’s Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar Ilan University, corona viruses, including SARS, have been studied at the Wuhan facility as part of China’s biological weapons (BW) program.

Although the Beijing regime denies having an offensive biological weapons program, Bill Gertz, writing in a Jan. 24, 2020 article in The Washington Times, citing Mr. Shoham, he asserts that the Wuhan Institute engages in offensive BW research on Ebola, Nipah, and Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever viruses as well as coronaviruses. China ratified the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC), which prohibits the development, production, acquisition, transfer, stockpiling and use of biological and toxin weapons, in 1984.

https://www.newsmax.com/claremlopez/who-hubei-weapons-biological/2020/01/27/id/951497/

igCorcaigh

citysights wrote: »

Apologies if it’s already been posted here as haven’t read all thread but RTE are reporting that two Irish passengers on a cruise ship have the corona virus.

Yes, I think they are German (?) Irish citizens who do not live in Ireland.

tuxy

citysights wrote: »

Apologies if it’s already been posted here as haven’t read all thread but RTE are reporting that two Irish passengers on a cruise ship have the corona virus.

Yes two people with dual citizenship and do not live in Ireland.

There are two others on the ship that live in Ireland but they are still showing as negative for the virus.

Kermit.de.frog

tuxy wrote: »

I can't find any info on the CIA declaring that China has any Bioweapons lab, let alone one in Wuhan. I understand google is my friend because it has confirmed you are a CT nut.
Why would asking for a source be considered bullying? Why are you so reluctant to quote your source?



I know this but there are people on here who will read that and start making up stories about the CIA

The source is from a committee of the US congress and I am not trawling through the hours of video or transcripts to find it.

And I am certainly not doing it for someone intent on insulting me.

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The source is from a committee of the US congress and I am not trawling through the hours of video or transcripts to find it.

And I am certainly not doing it for someone intent on insulting me.

So this massive revelation and something that would be certain to lead to serious sanctions on China is burred so deep it would take a very long time to find? :rolleyes:

Just admit you made it up and move on. There's a CT forum for these kind of tall tales and many on there happy to entertain you.
This is a current affairs topic on facts related to this virus.

igCorcaigh

Well, I think this will more likely go around the world and be with us all over the next few years.

I won't be getting paranoid about where the cases are, or the numbers. It will be around. People will die with this as people do all the time.

I have a certain level of concern for my older friends and my parents. I constantly nag my dad in his late 70s to get the flu jab, he never does.

I know this is worse than seasonal flu, and that's bad enough, quite a lot worse.

I just don't think we should get jumpy when the cases start rising in Ireland or your home town or wherever.

Be sensible, but this is not the apocalypse.

Kermit.de.frog

tuxy wrote: »

So this massive revelation and something that would be certain to lead to serious sanctions on China is burred so deep it would take a very long time to find? :rolleyes:

Just admit you made it up and move on. There's a CT forum for these kind of tall tales and many on there happy to entertain you.
But this is current affairs topic on facts related to this virus.

I have made nothing up.

Indeed it is for discussion of the virus and I will continue contributing whether you like it or not regardless of your attempt to insult other posters and backroom modding.

What do you think about that?

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have made nothing up.

Indeed it is for discussion of the virus and I will continue contributing whether you like it or not regardless of your attempt to insult other posters and backroom modding.

What do you think about that?

That's fine I have no problem with that. Just try to limit the usage of nutjob conspiracy theories. I'm not demanding, just asking can you please try to do that?

Kermit.de.frog

Reported.

There is a handy ignore button there by the way. You don't have to read any of my posts.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

Just admit you made it up and move on.

I'm not defending what Kermit said but how about you move on. He said that ages ago and you won't stop bringing it up. We could have all forgotten about it by now if you could let it go. He's not the one that keeps going on about it.

1641

gozunda wrote: »

Regardless of any conspiracy allegations - you do know that the Virology Laboratory in Wuhan (est. 1961) is the premier lab in China for investigation of bats and the Coronavirus yes?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/mining-coronavirus-genomes-clues-outbreak-s-origins

And? It is no secret that China has been investigating corona viruses and particularly those harboured by bats. This is particularly since Sars. Reports indicate that their scientists have identified at least 500 new corona viruses in bats in the past 10 years - and reckon that that this is only a fraction of those present. It has long been feared that a bat corona virus transmitted to humans could lead to a pandemic and that the most likely source would be China. So, that they are investigating is only to be expected - indeed reassuring.


The thing is this, and here I am quoting the disease ecologist Peter Daszak from your linked article, “Every time there’s an emerging disease, a new virus, the same story comes out: This is a spillover or the release of an agent or a bioengineered virus,” Daszak says. “It’s just a shame. It seems humans can’t resist controversy and these myths, yet it’s staring us right in the face. There’s this incredible diversity of viruses in wildlife and we’ve just scratched the surface. Within that diversity, there will be some that can infect people and within that group will be some that cause illness.”

wadacrack

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Well, I think this will more likely go around the world and be with us all over the next few years.

I won't be getting paranoid about where the cases are, or the numbers. It will be around. People will die with this as people do all the time.

I have a certain level of concern for my older friends and my parents. I constantly nag my dad in his late 70s to get the flu jab, he never does.

I know this is worse than seasonal flu, and that's bad enough, quite a lot worse.

I just don't think we should get jumpy when the cases start rising in Ireland or your home town or wherever.

Be sensible, but this is not the apocalypse.

This is not the attitude we need as a society. It is possible to contain it. We just need to be pro active about the cases that do arise here. Have a look at what South Korea and Singapore are doing. Extremely detailed maps of people infected and how they are linked etc. We need to take it as seriously as they are . Not just accept our faith type attitude.

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not defending what Kermit said but how about you move on. He said that ages ago and you won't stop bringing it up. We could have all forgotten about it by now if you could let it go. He's not the one that keeps going on about it.

I just want the source, if the CIA have confirmed there is a bio weapons lab in China that could be the biggest news story of the year.
This is the first time he has confirmed he has seen me ask for this important source.

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

I just want the source, if the CIA have confirmed there is a bio weapons lab in China that could be the biggest news story of the year.

You don't want the source because you don't believe there is a source. You've made that clear. You said yourself you just want him to admit he made it up. He said something sensationalist. Made up or not, he didn't go on about it and try to badger us all into believing it. But you won't stop bringing it up. You're trying to badger him into admitting he was lying. It is starting to look like bullying but mostly it's just getting tired at this stage.

Kermit.de.frog

tuxy wrote: »

I just want the source, if the CIA have confirmed there is a bio weapons lab in China that could be the biggest news story of the year.
This is the first time he has confirmed he has seen me ask for this important source.

Or maybe I have just been ignoring your obsessive (and admittedly a little disturbing) quoting the same thing from me every day for the last couple of weeks.

Time to move on tuxy.

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't want the source because you don't believe there is a source. You've made that clear. You said yourself you just want him to admit he made it up. He said something sensationalist. Made up or not, he didn't go on about it and try to badger us all into believing it.

Actually he made the claim a number of times.