new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

Kermit.de.frog

Wanderer78 wrote: »

That's interesting

It is indeed

Wanderer78

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

It is indeed

Sold, this is clearly what's happening, I think we should counterattack with the paddy virus

tuxy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

That's interesting

Yes it's interesting that China has an actual bio weapons lab and no trade sanctions or condemnation from other countries.

Wanderer78

tuxy wrote:

Yes it's interesting that China has an actual bio weapons lab and no trade sanctions or condemnation from other countries.

Do you really think people care, it's all about the money, nobody really gives a fcuk

It's a BSL-4 laboratory. England has them, Ireland doesn't. Even if it came from there, it doesn't necessarily mean it's some bio-weapon. The labs are used for research.

Biosafety level 4 laboratories are used for diagnostic work and research on easily transmitted pathogens which can cause fatal disease. These include a number of viruses known to cause viral hemorrhagic fever such as Marburg virus, Ebola virus, Lassa virus, and Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever. Other pathogens handled at BSL-4 include Hendra virus, Nipah virus, and some flaviviruses. Additionally, poorly characterized pathogens which appear closely related to dangerous pathogens are often handled at this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this level, or to permit working with them at a lower level.[13] This level is also used for work with Variola virus, the causative agent of smallpox, though this work is only performed at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, United States, and the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology in Koltsovo, Russia.[14]

I know already that because it's China, you believe they're making bio-weapons and research is a cover. If that's the life you prefer to lead, not much we can do. Most of us prefer to apply Occam's Razor.

Kermit.de.frog

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sold, this is clearly what's happening, I think we should counterattack with the paddy virus

The CIA say it's the most advanced bio weapons facility in China.

Why do you think China put such extreme measures in place so quick?

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The CIA say it's the most advanced bio weapons facility in China.

Source?

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a BSL-4 laboratory. England has them, Ireland doesn't. Even if it came from there, it doesn't necessarily mean it's some bio-weapon. The labs are used for research.

Biosafety level 4 laboratories are used for diagnostic work and research on easily transmitted pathogens which can cause fatal disease. These include a number of viruses known to cause viral hemorrhagic fever such as Marburg virus, Ebola virus, Lassa virus, and Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever. Other pathogens handled at BSL-4 include Hendra virus, Nipah virus, and some flaviviruses. Additionally, poorly characterized pathogens which appear closely related to dangerous pathogens are often handled at this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this level, or to permit working with them at a lower level.[13] This level is also used for work with Variola virus, the causative agent of smallpox, though this work is only performed at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, United States, and the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology in Koltsovo, Russia.[14]

I know already that because it's China, you believe they're making bio-weapons and research is a cover. If that's the life you prefer to lead, not much we can do. Most of us prefer to apply Occam's Razor.

The CIA say it's China's most advanced bio weapons facility of a far different scale to what you are referencing.

You are only looking for an argument.

You see it as pure coincidence.

You are entitled to that opinion of course.

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The CIA say it's the most advanced bio weapons facility in China.

Why do you think China put such extreme measures in place so quick?

This started in late december they didnt implement any restrictions until mid january and they tried to hide it at first, so no they they didnt put any extreme measures in place quickly.

Wanderer78

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Why do you think China put such extreme measures in place so quick?

Fcuk knows, I think we should nuke them from orbit, it's really the only way

Sean 18

ardinn wrote: »

Seeing videos now of the army patrolling streets with automatic weapons.

Heard one report of 112,000 dead! - I dont believe it, but can you imagine?

One interesting thing I did find waas that there is 55,000 hospital beds in those two cities - If that is true, then I am in full agreement of the very worst possible scenarios - we have seen the state and strain the hospitals are in - thats not even a question now - but if they declare even 5000 infected, thats only 10% of available capacity (I understand hospitals dont stay empty up until an outbreak) but its very worrying if true.

If them shocking stats are true that means it s not just old people with weak immune system s are dying but young healthy people too

VinLieger

Sean 18 wrote: »

If them shocking stats are true that means it s not just old people with weak immune system s are dying but young healthy people too

Wuhan is a city of 11 million people many of those 55k beds are likely also taken up by people with illness other than the coronavirus.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The CIA say it's the most advanced bio weapons facility in China.

Why do you think China put such extreme measures in place so quick?

To not repeat the mistakes of SARS I would imagine, and because of Chinese New Year exacerbating the situation.

And the measures aren't particularly extreme. Limiting travel is logical. They only appear extreme because the populations of those cities are so large, and because we can't imagine doing that in the West. Building pre-fab temporary hospitals is something they've done before. It's not extreme. It's responsible.

Kermit.de.frog

VinLieger wrote: »

Wuhan is a city of 11 million people

Quarantined.

It's not because of bat soup - it's because it's a weapon. Its a weaponised virus.

That is why cities are being quarantined.

China attacked itself (by accident presumably)

Sean 18

Sean 18 wrote: »

If them shocking stats are true that means it s not just old people with weak immune system s are dying but young healthy people too

It gets worse. I heard one report of 112,000,000 dead! - I dont believe it, but can you imagine?

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Building pre-fab temporary hospitals is something they've done before. It's not extreme. It's responsible.

They are not hospitals. They are glorified concentration camps.

I don't think it is understood the seriousness of the situation in this part of the world.

gozunda

China has asked the EU for medical supplies

China's Premier Li Keqiang has asked the European Union (EU) to facilitate China's urgent procurement of medical supplies from member countries, the Chinese government said on Saturday (Feb 1), amid the coronavirus outbreak.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/wuhan-virus-chinas-premier-li-asks-eu-to-facilitate-urgent-procurement-of-medical

Chinas has a huge manufacturing base - that obviously is being put under some strain atm.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quarantined.

It's not because of bat soup - it's because it's a weapon. Its a weaponised virus.

That is why cities are being quarantined.

China attacked itself (by accident presumably)

There have been far worse viruses. Why are you so adamant that this virus didn't come from animals the same way all the others did? I don't see any reason for it.

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

There have been far worse viruses. Why are you so adamant that this virus didn't come from animals the same way all the others did? I don't see any reason for it.

He has access to CIA info that has not been made public yet.

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are not hospitals. They are glorified concentration camps.

I don't think it is understood the seriousness of the situation in this part of the world.

Where is your source regarding what the CIA said about the lab?

Darc19

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It gets worse. I heard one report of 112,000,000 dead! - I dont believe it, but can you imagine?

The sensationalism by some on this thread would even embarrass the daily mail.

Next we'll be told that items made in China can hold the virus for 3 months - yes, someone on Facebook actually said this and the number of utterly stupid people that believed it was phenomenal

s7ryf3925pivug

I wonder what it means that only one or two long haul passengers are popping up as infected at a time, and not lots of passengers who were on the same flights.

Some of them might not have been infectious at the time of the flight but surely some of them were too.

Perhaps airborne transmission doesn't occur that often, at least not before someone is obviously sick. (Pun not intended.)

Or perhaps lots of passengers have been infected and are still incubating the virus.

kaymin

Reasonable reputable parties making claims that the lab is the source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/

https://www.insideover.com/society/china-slams-israeli-claim-that-coronavirus-came-from-bioweapon-lab.html

kaymin

Darc19 wrote: »

The sensationalism by some on this thread would even embarrass the daily mail.

Next we'll be told that items made in China can hold the virus for 3 months - yes, someone on Facebook actually said this and the number of utterly stupid people that believed it was phenomenal

Some viruses can survive on a surface for months others for only a few hours.

Sean 18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It gets worse. I heard one report of 112,000,000 dead! - I dont believe it, but can you imagine?

WTF Whatever happens I'd say China's going to end up being the new Chernobyl I can't see them coming back from this

s7ryf3925pivug

The suspicions are there because the Chinese response seems disproportionate to the professed threat.

They are pretty authoritarian though and the confirmed measures are less extreme when put in that context.

Darc19

kaymin wrote: »

Some viruses can survive on a surface for months others for only a few hours.

Ffs, stop the utter stupidity

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

And here's a list of more fake bs that some stupid people actually believe
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-hoax-food-vaccine-conspiracy-theory-wuhan-china-9306561

kaymin

kaymin wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/

“Certain laboratories in the institute have probably been engaged, in terms of research and development, in Chinese [biological weapons], at least collaterally, yet not as a principal facility of the Chinese BW alignment,” Mr. Shoham told The Washington Times.

Work on biological weapons is conducted as part of dual civilian-military research and is “definitely covert,” he said in an email.


An article based on nothing.

Sean 18

Sean 18 wrote: »

WTF Whatever happens I'd say China's going to end up being the new Chernobyl I can't see them coming back from this

What do you mean "come back"? From where?

The chan chan man

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My suspicion is it's an escaped biological weapon and the Chinese government panicked. This is why the response has been so quick and increasingly drecronian.

They know exactly what it is. "Bat soup" lol

Without a doubt. There’s a manufacturer of biochemical warfare viruses just outside Wuhan. This is their equivalent of a leak at the Ringsend plant!

Does anyone seriously believe they’re shutting down their country and building a purpose built hospital in 6 days because of a flu?! This is going to be catastrophic if it reaches Ireland. Our health system cannot cope as is.

wakka12

VinLieger wrote: »

Wuhan is a city of 11 million people many of those 55k beds are likely also taken up by people with illness other than the coronavirus.

It is not currently 11 million. The mayor said at least two million left before lock down , so there should be more beds that usual in wuhan

Sean 18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What do you mean "come back"? From where?

I meant if this doesn't end soon China could hit recession tourism etc

kaymin

Darc19 wrote: »

Ffs, stop the utter stupidity

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

And here's a list of more fake bs that some stupid people actually believe
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-hoax-food-vaccine-conspiracy-theory-wuhan-china-9306561

What is stupid?

From the NHS:
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

Norovirus and C. difficile, however, can survive for much longer. In one study, C. difficile was shown to survive for 5 months.

I'm not saying coronavurus can last that long but my point is certain viruses can survive for months

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean "come back"? From where?

The only one that will find it hard to come back is a poster who a completely bonus claim about a US government organisation.

c.p.w.g.w

kaymin wrote: »

Reasonable reputable parties making claims that the lab is the source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/

https://www.insideover.com/society/china-slams-israeli-claim-that-coronavirus-came-from-bioweapon-lab.html

Israel has about as much credibility as China in fairness

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

“Certain laboratories in the institute have probably been engaged, in terms of research and development, in Chinese [biological weapons], at least collaterally, yet not as a principal facility of the Chinese BW alignment,” Mr. Shoham told The Washington Times.

Work on biological weapons is conducted as part of dual civilian-military research and is “definitely covert,” he said in an email.


An article based on nothing.

So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.

Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

At the very least it is a significant probability.

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.

Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

At the very least it is a significant probability.

Did you have to sign a non disclosure contract with the CIA?
Is that why you can't link a source?

kaymin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

“Certain laboratories in the institute have probably been engaged, in terms of research and development, in Chinese [biological weapons], at least collaterally, yet not as a principal facility of the Chinese BW alignment,” Mr. Shoham told The Washington Times.

Work on biological weapons is conducted as part of dual civilian-military research and is “definitely covert,” he said in an email.


An article based on nothing.

Well if your looking for proof then you will be waiting a while. China is hardly going to be forthright about it. Point is it's not tin foil hat types that are making these claims. It's a plausible scenario.

Sean 18

Sean 18 wrote: »

I meant if this doesn't end soon China could hit recession tourism etc

And never recover? This will permanently kill China's economy and tourism?

I don't understand how a virus which will be gone in a year or two will continue to affect China in decades to come.

Sean 18

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.

Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

At the very least it is a significant probability.

Definitely something from a lab experiment just read now their after slaughtering 18000 chickens some new bird flu strain affecting poultry

Rufeo

So should we wear masks and a helmet now that Dublinistan is infected?

tuxy

Rufeo wrote: »

So should we wear masks and a helmet now that Dublinistan is infected?

Yes but made out of tinfoil.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

And never recover? This will permanently kill China's economy and tourism?

I don't understand how a virus which will be gone in a year or two will continue to affect China in decades to come.

What China has done is the equivalent of us shutting down Waterford, Limerick and Galway.

They can only hope it does not affect Beijing and Shanghai in the same way.

The country is being killed over this. They are amputating their own cities.

If it is not brought under some sort of control ASAP then things are bleak to put it mildly.

The critical thing for China is to defend at all costs (which they are trying to do) Beijing and Shanghai. If they fall to the virus like Wuhan then...

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.

Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

At the very least it is a significant probability.

The onus is on the conspiracy theorist to prove his theory. So far, your proof is that there is a lab in Wuhan and an American politician said America still doesn't know the source.. but there's a lab in Wuhan wink wink.

kaymin wrote: »

Well if your looking for proof then you will be waiting a while. China is hardly going to be forthright about it. Point is it's not tin foil hat types that are making these claims. It's a plausible scenario.

Right, it's an American politician saying "We don't know. But hey, remember there's a lab in the same city." and some Israeli guy saying the lab in the city probably worked on some viruses.

Sure it's plausible. But natural sources, like all other viruses over eons, is more plausible. As far as we know, there is nothing unique about this virus that suggests it's lab-made. And it isn't some hyper-virus either. There's still only been one death outside China.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

The chan chan man wrote: »

Without a doubt. There’s a manufacturer of biochemical warfare viruses just outside Wuhan. This is their equivalent of a leak at the Ringsend plant!

Does anyone seriously believe they’re shutting down their country and building a purpose built hospital in 6 days because of a flu?! This is going to be catastrophic if it reaches Ireland. Our health system cannot cope as is.

Could they have possibly released it on purpose?

You never really know how effective a BW could be, unless you test it in real world conditions... They might not be too bothered by a few 1,000 dead in order to get these weapons ready for a future global war scenario. They do tend to see the average person on the street, as being somewhat expendable over the needs of the collective national interests.

Horrible thought... but I would suggest not completely improbable!

Canis Lupus

The only thing this thread is good for is to see who I can tick off as nuts for future reference in other threads.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Could they have possibly released it on purpose?

You never really know how effective a BW could be, unless you test it in real world conditions... They might not be too bothered by a few 1,000 dead in order to get these weapons ready for a future global war scenario. They do tend to see the average person on the street, as being somewhat expendable over the needs of the collective national interests.

Horrible thought... but I would suggest not completely improbable!

Historically, when live tests on the Chinese population were carried out, it was by the Japanese in Manchuria.

I don't see much reason for China to test this out on their own population. If it's a live test, it makes more sense for it to be another country.

Yurt2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And never recover? This will permanently kill China's economy and tourism?

I don't understand how a virus which will be gone in a year or two will continue to affect China in decades to come.

We'll never know the full story, but analysts have observed the Chinese government has bailed many toxic regional banks and SOEs to keep them alive over the past couple of years. They've also been public they will provide financial support to enterprises during this lockdown period. The capacity of the Chinese government and monetary authorities to keep absorbing these punches is limited. How limited, we do not know.

I've also been to more than one Chinese mega mall (think Dundrum x4) where I'm one of a dozen shoppers wandering around. Granted this in tier 2 cities, but I can't understand how they keep the lights on. It's mystifying. There has to be a day of reckoning.

1641

The chemical weapon theory is distracting people from the real cause. This is like the Black Death which was caused by an unusual alignment of the stars which occurred exactly again in December :

"We say that the distant and first cause of this pestilence was and is the configuration of the heavens. In 1345, at one hour after noon on 20 March, there was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius. This conjunction, along with other earlier conjunctions and eclipses, by causing a deadly corruption of the air around us, signifies mortality and famine, and also other things about which we will not speak here because they are not relevant. Aristotle testifies that this is the case in his book Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (1), in which he says that mortality of races and the depopulation of kingdoms occur at the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, for great events then arise, their nature depending on the trigon in which the conjunction occurs. And this is found in ancient philosophers, and Albertus Magnus in his book, Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (treatise 2, chapter 1) says that [I]the conjunction of Mars and Jupiter causes a great pestilence in the air[/I], especially when they come together in a hot, wet sign, as was the case in 1345. For Jupiter, being wet and hot, draws up evil vapours from the earth and Mars, because it is immoderately hot and dry, then ignites the vapours, and as a result there were lightning, sparks, noxious vapours and fires throughout the air. (2)


These effects were intensified because Mars -- a malevolent planet, breeding anger and wars -- was in the sign of Leo from 6 October 1347 until the end of May this year, along with the head of the dragon, and because all these things are hot they attracted many vapours, which is why the winter was not as cold as it should have been. (3) And Mars was also retrograde and therefore attracted many vapours from the earth and the sea which, when mixed with the air, corrupted its substances. (4) Mars was also looking upon Jupiter with a hostile aspect, that is to say quartile, and that caused an evil disposition or quality in the air, harmful and hateful to our nature. (5) This state of affairs generated strong winds (for according to Albertus in the first book of his Meteora, Jupiter has the property of raising powerful winds, particularly from the south) which gave rise to excess heat and moisture on the earth; although in fact it was the dampness which was most marked in our part of the world. And this is enough about the distant or universal cause for the moment."

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

Historically, when live tests on the Chinese population were carried out, it was by the Japanese in Manchuria.

I don't see much reason for China to test this out on their own population. If it's a live test, it makes more sense for it to be another country.

If they really wanted to test something like that you would think North Korea would be the perfect candidate.