new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

Kermit.de.frog

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The only thing this thread is good for is to see who I can tick off as nuts for future reference in other threads.

Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.

ShyMets

I can only imagine what this thread will be like if and when we get the first confirmed case in Ireland

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.

When are you linking that CIA source? Are you holding on to it as some kind of trump card in a few years time?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

1641 wrote: »

The chemical weapon theory is distracting people from the real cause. This is like the Black Death which was caused by an unusual alignment of the stars which occurred exactly again in December :

"We say that the distant and first cause of this pestilence was and is the configuration of the heavens. In 1345, at one hour after noon on 20 March, there was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius. This conjunction, along with other earlier conjunctions and eclipses, by causing a deadly corruption of the air around us, signifies mortality and famine, and also other things about which we will not speak here because they are not relevant. Aristotle testifies that this is the case in his book Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (1), in which he says that mortality of races and the depopulation of kingdoms occur at the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, for great events then arise, their nature depending on the trigon in which the conjunction occurs. And this is found in ancient philosophers, and Albertus Magnus in his book, Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (treatise 2, chapter 1) says that [I]the conjunction of Mars and Jupiter causes a great pestilence in the air[/I], especially when they come together in a hot, wet sign, as was the case in 1345. For Jupiter, being wet and hot, draws up evil vapours from the earth and Mars, because it is immoderately hot and dry, then ignites the vapours, and as a result there were lightning, sparks, noxious vapours and fires throughout the air. (2)


These effects were intensified because Mars -- a malevolent planet, breeding anger and wars -- was in the sign of Leo from 6 October 1347 until the end of May this year, along with the head of the dragon, and because all these things are hot they attracted many vapours, which is why the winter was not as cold as it should have been. (3) And Mars was also retrograde and therefore attracted many vapours from the earth and the sea which, when mixed with the air, corrupted its substances. (4) Mars was also looking upon Jupiter with a hostile aspect, that is to say quartile, and that caused an evil disposition or quality in the air, harmful and hateful to our nature. (5) This state of affairs generated strong winds (for according to Albertus in the first book of his Meteora, Jupiter has the property of raising powerful winds, particularly from the south) which gave rise to excess heat and moisture on the earth; although in fact it was the dampness which was most marked in our part of the world. And this is enough about the distant or universal cause for the moment."

And here I was, thinking I might have brought this thread to a weird place... :P

Instantly outdone... perhaps I've just opened the weird and wacky door! (oops my bad) :pac:

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

The onus is on the conspiracy theorist to prove his theory. So far, your proof is that there is a lab in Wuhan and an American politician said America still doesn't know the source.. but there's a lab in Wuhan wink wink.

How is it a conspiracy theory?

China's most advanced viral laboratory is across the river from the so called 'origin'.

It does not take much of a stretch to understand the potential source of this outbreak.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.

Why is it so important to you to be right? What does it matter if in a few years, it turns out it's from the lab?

No one here is saying it's definitely 100% not from the lab, the same way you are saying you are 150% sure it is. We're saying there's little reason to believe it's from the lab right now. We're not wrong.

tuxy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How is it a conspiracy theory?

Because it's very difficult to believe a member of boards has access to CIA intel that has not been make public yet.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it so important to you to be right? What does it matter if in a few years, it turns out it's from the lab?

It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

But each to their own.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How is it a conspiracy theory?

China's most advanced viral laboratory is across the river from the so called 'origin'.

It does not take much of a stretch to understand the potential source of this outbreak.

But it does require some stretch.. That's the point. To believe your theory, I have to have faith in something I have no proof of. Until that gap is filled, it's a conspiracy theory.

It's not across a river in the middle of nowhere. It's across a river in the middle of a massive city of 11 million people. Your leap of faith implies that anything that starts in a city with a BSL-3 or BSL-4 laboratory must come from that laboratory, but things that don't start in those cities come from nature, and we are swallowing what the CCP is feeding us for not sharing that logic with you.

Darc19

kaymin wrote: »

What is stupid?

From the NHS:
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

Norovirus and C. difficile, however, can survive for much longer. In one study, C. difficile was shown to survive for 5 months.

I'm not saying coronavurus can last that long but my point is certain viruses can survive for months

This thread is about coronavirus.

Coronavirus CANNOT survive on surfaces for any length of time. The WHO say a few hours at most.

The scaremongering about this is phenomenal and the number of people who believe the bullsh1t ott rubbish is embarrassing

Duke of Url

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

But each to their own.

The Americans released the virus on the Chinese people and used the lab in Wuhan as a cover up.

Yurt2

Darc19 wrote: »

This thread is about coronavirus.

Coronavirus CANNOT survive on surfaces for any length of time. The WHO say a few hours at most.

The scaremongering about this is phenomenal and the number of people who believe the bullsh1t ott rubbish is embarrassing

The other side is hysteria has actually probably done a lot to keep this contained. Left unchecked, there is very little doubt it would lead to a particularly deadly flu season. Thankfully, despite there being a senior Irish medic among the leadership among the WHO, he appears not to be from the "shur it's grand" school of Irish emergency response.

Blud

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

But each to their own.

You keep saying "across the river" which makes it feel like you're talking about a stones throw.

Theres 20 miles between the lab and the seafood market. At the very least, quit the Daily Mail style scare mongering, it massively detracts from the valid point of the existence of the lab.

And like others have said, please link your CIA source, or again you're massively discrediting yourself.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.
<snipped>
At the very least it is a significant probability.

Since you introduced probability... Here's a List of many of such labs worldwide.

"According to data collected in 2010 and 2011, the number of BSL 4 laboratories worldwide is 38 [5], mostly concentrated in the US (10) and Europe (14). The official number of BSL 3 facilities worldwide is unknown, since most laboratories where research on infectious diseases is carried out and many hospital laboratories operate at safety level 3. Their number, however, is of the order of several thousands: there were 1,362 in the US alone in 2008"

You're doing the same as the media. Looking to make a dramatic statement and promote a belief that won't be discounted... simply because the PRC won't comment either on boards, or publicly deny it being a bio-weapons lab.. and even if they did deny it, nobody would believe them.

"In terms of specific interventions implemented, our analysis is inspired by the experience of an accidental release of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in August 2003 from a laboratory in Singapore [14]: a total of 8 household contacts, 2 community contacts, 32 hospital contacts, and 42 work contacts were identified, of whom 25 were placed under home quarantine"

You have no evidence that it's a bio-weapons lab.
You have no evidence that the virus was even released from the lab.

You're pushing a conspiracy theory without any evidence to support it, and dismissing anyone who objects. Why not wait until after the crisis, and once you get some evidence (since there's bound to be an official international investigation), then promote your angle?

Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

Because you're pushing a nefarious angle by repeatedly promoting the bio weapon angle. If you were simply saying that it was released from a lab that was researching such viruses, then I wouldn't be so bothered. But you're not. You're pushing the bio-weapon angle.

I'm rather disgusted by the sheer amount of the rumors, fear-mongering, and crap thrown as facts (but lacking evidence) that the internet is spouting about this virus.

zell12

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/passenger-displaying-coronavirus-symptoms-taken-17674333?_ga=2.205402320.1592613411.1580633949-193808099.1580633948

NewMan1982

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

China is not telling the world the truth about what happened and the current situation.

The US knows this hence they are taking decisive action now to protect themselves.

No one trusts the official Chinese government position or their numbers.

Why do you keep repeating yourself?

SeaBreezes

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But it does require some stretch.. That's the point. To believe your theory, I have to have faith in something I have no proof of. Until that gap is filled, it's a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory 1- escapee virus from Wuhan virology lab.

US$1 million bail set for Harvard professor Charles Lieber, who was charged with hiding China ties He was paid $50,000 a month by the Wuhan University of Technology in China and living expenses up to $158,000. He was also awarded more than $1.5 million to establish a research lab at the Chinese university, prosecutors said.

Last month, a medical student from China was also charged in Boston with trying to smuggle vials of research specimens in a sock in his suitcase bound for China. Zaosong Zheng, who was in the U.S. on a visa sponsored by Harvard, is accused of stealing the materials from a lab at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/harvard-professor-charged-federally-with-lying-about-income/2068591/%3famp


More coincidence:

Dr. Peng Zhou (周鹏), Ph.D., a researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and Leader of the Bat Virus Infection and Immunization Group.

His primary field of study is researching how and why bats can be infected with some of the most nightmarish viruses in the world including Ebola, SARS and Coronavirus, and not get sick.

As part of his studies, Peng also researched mutant Coronavirus strains that overcame the natural immunity of some bats; these are "superbug" Coronavirus strains, which are not resistant to any natural immune pathway, and now appear to be out in the wild


Conspiracy No 2 - Batsoup

None of that means anything.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

None of that means anything.

That's what you always say to anything that contradicts your batsoup story.

Kermit.de.frog

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Why do you keep repeating yourself?

Because it needs repeating.

Akrasia

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Could they have possibly released it on purpose?

You never really know how effective a BW could be, unless you test it in real world conditions... They might not be too bothered by a few 1,000 dead in order to get these weapons ready for a future global war scenario. They do tend to see the average person on the street, as being somewhat expendable over the needs of the collective national interests.

Horrible thought... but I would suggest not completely improbable!

I have to admit to being shocked that someone with your username also happens to be a conspiracy theorist... who would ever have thought it???

This virus is an inevitable consequence of mixing live animal markets with large densely populated urban environments

Blud

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's what you always say to anything that contradicts your batsoup story.

Whereas your approach is just to ignore any inconvenient posts?

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Because it needs repeating.

As does the request for you to show your source about the CIA.

Or simply admit you made it up or the "source" is extremely unreliable....

Kermit.de.frog

Akrasia wrote: »

I have to admit to being shocked that someone with your username also happens to be a conspiracy theorist... who would ever have thought it???

This virus is an inevitable consequence of mixing live animal markets with large densely populated urban environments

Or a release from a lab that happens to be the foremost viral experimentation (or bio weapon) facility in China and located in the exact same place as the source of the outbreak.

People going a long way to defend the Communist regime here...interesting.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Because it needs repeating.

Why?

No. Seriously. Why does it need repeating? (considering the lack of evidence)

NewMan1982

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quarantined.

It's not because of bat soup - it's because it's a weapon. Its a weaponised virus.

That is why cities are being quarantined.

China attacked itself (by accident presumably)

For the first time ever on boards I need to block a user.

Rvsmmnps

This is squabbling. I come here for updates and opinions.

Kermit.de.frog

Blud wrote: »

Whereas your approach is just to ignore any inconvenient posts?

Yes. Google exists, use it.:P

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People going a long way to defend the Communist regime here...interesting.

Lol good job refuting that conspiracy theorist label

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's what you always say to anything that contradicts your batsoup story.

No I don't. I haven't discounted the lab theory. I even said it was plausible.

If you want to try and take what I replied to and explain to me how the sum of those parts equals escaped virus, go ahead.. I haven't seen you using those "points" he made.

Kermit.de.frog

NewMan1982 wrote: »

For the first time ever on boards I need to block a user.

You have 191 posts.

I'm devastated.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People going a long way to defend the Communist regime here...interesting.

I haven't seen many posts here that were actually defending the government... care to refer to the post numbers for me to see?

SeaBreezes

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure it's plausible. But natural sources, like all other viruses over eons, is more plausible. As far as we know, there is nothing unique about this virus that suggests it's lab-made. And it isn't some hyper-virus either. There's still only been one death outside China.

Paper indicating this virus has HIV properties..

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf

Taken together, our findings suggest unconventional evolution of 2019-nCoV that warrants further investigation. Our work highlights novel evolutionary aspects of the 2019-nCoV and has implications on the pathogenesis and diagnosis of this virus.

We should get back on track though as your man said. This is squabbling. And whether or not you want to admit it, the lab stuff belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Duke of Url

The IMTU are investigating a link between the Coronavirus in China and the Bush Fires in Australia :eek:

Ficheall

I want to know what the story is with the two French patients who have been in a "serious" condition for over a week..

I'm going to be teaching around 500 different students in the coming week without a proper mask as I can't find one. And the students won't be able to find one either. Many of these students have been in China in the last two weeks, I've been hanging out with people living there, as have many other teachers. Everyone has been travelling around for the lunar new year as well. The latest confirmed case this morning in a tourist who travelled through Wuhan on the 15th January.

Many schools and universities are voluntarily closing, but not mine. Balls.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

We should get back on track though as your man said. This is squabbling. And whether or not you want to admit it, the lab stuff belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

I'll get back on track on the destruction of China and the squabbling if you agree that the lab "theory" is not for the conspiracy forum.

It is a genuine possibility that can not be ignored.

VinLieger

Ficheall wrote: »

I want to know what the story is with the two French patients who have been in a "serious" condition for over a week..

Serious comes before critical so not much there id say tbh.

More questions need to be asked of china's numbers its getting to the stage where the numbers of currently infected, dead and recovered are not adding up

Oranage2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm going to be teaching around 500 different students in the coming week without a proper mask as I can't find one. And the students won't be able to find one either. Many of these students have been in China in the last two weeks, I've been hanging out with people living there, as have many other teachers. Everyone has been travelling around for the lunar new year as well. The latest confirmed case this morning in a tourist who travelled through Wuhan on the 15th January.

Many schools and universities are voluntarily closing, but not mine. Balls.

Ask them can you take a month off?

SeaBreezes

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm going to be teaching around 500 different students in the coming week without a proper mask as I can't find one. And the students won't be able to find one either. Many of these students have been in China in the last two weeks, I've been hanging out with people living there, as have many other teachers. Everyone has been travelling around for the lunar new year as well. The latest confirmed case this morning in a tourist who travelled through Wuhan on the 15th January.

Many schools and universities are voluntarily closing, but not mine. Balls.

Can you give it online? Save a large number of carbon points too?

Use webex or zoom?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to be teaching around 500 different students in the coming week without a proper mask as I can't find one. And the students won't be able to find one either. Many of these students have been in China in the last two weeks, I've been hanging out with people living there, as have many other teachers. Everyone has been travelling around for the lunar new year as well. The latest confirmed case this morning in a tourist who travelled through Wuhan on the 15th January.

Many schools and universities are voluntarily closing, but not mine. Balls.

Where are you?

Check your contract and look at your health clauses (the government law regarding foreigners is also worth a read). Your school probably has to provide a safe working environment, so you could quite easily push the lack of preventative measures as a breach of the contract.

My university (Xi'an) is closed until March. The Chinese government has recommended most businesses to stay closed until after Feb 9th pending further developments. You can use those kind of details to negotiate your teaching requirements.

SeaBreezes

VinLieger wrote: »

Serious comes before critical so not much there id say tbh.

More questions need to be asked of china's numbers its getting to the stage where the numbers of currently infected, dead and recovered are not adding up

That's what I keep wondering. Are the others still fighting it? Is there a period of time before your fully recovered? Are they only counting people hospitalised?

Oranage2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where are you?

Check your contract and look at your health clauses (the government law regarding foreigners is also worth a read). Your school probably has to provide a safe working environment, so you could quite easily push the lack of preventative measures as a breach of the contract.

My university (Xi'an) is closed until March. The Chinese government has recommended most businesses to stay closed until after Feb 9th pending further developments. You can use those kind of details to negotiate your teaching requirements.

I'm sure he's in vietnam

This is it

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Quarantined.

It's not because of bat soup - it's because it's a weapon. Its a weaponised virus.

That is why cities are being quarantined.

China attacked itself (by accident presumably)

Even if what you're saying is true, you need to calm down. You're going on like a raving lunatic, it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

scamalert

if people would only use rational thinking not consipracy ****e on the internet, given total numbers this virus doesnt even match flu, as 300 death toll as bad as it may sound, in likes of china is a grain of sand. given that it has incubaction period and modern medicine, its spread is slow - which means very well treatable.


we had zika few years back which carried and still does massive genetic disorder for female pregnant women and kids, far worse consequences for life. ebola was something that could been agro virus given location and how uneducated people were at the time.


but in a country with well over billion people 300 deaths and few outside, we have almost same numbers of people that die from regular flu each year here, so this hype that it will have snowball effect when most countries already have contingencies in place to monitor its spread and contain it, shows more of hysteria that media pushes as theres nothing else to report.

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

Ask them can you take a month off?

Maybe. Wouldn't even care if it was unpaid.

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Can you give it online? Save a large number of carbon points too?

Use webex or zoom?

I could use my own software for that. I have a small LMS company.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where are you?

Check your contract and look at your health clauses (the government law regarding foreigners is also worth a read). Your school probably has to provide a safe working environment, so you could quite easily push the lack of preventative measures as a breach of the contract.

My university (Xi'an) is closed until March. The Chinese government has recommended most businesses to stay closed until after Feb 9th pending further developments. You can use those kind of details to negotiate your teaching requirements.

Hanoi, so not really panicked. Just have a feeling the numbers are going to go up here. I'll have a look at the contract but I doubt I'd find anything worthwhile in it.

Oranage2

I don't really understand the argument that the common flu kills more. It's like saying guns kill less than the common flu so we shouldn't care about guns.

PhantomHat

SeaBreezes wrote: »

That's what I keep wondering. Are the others still fighting it? Is there a period of time before your fully recovered? Are they only counting people hospitalised?

Possibly up to 14 days pre symptom incubation period which may be infectious. About 14 days symptom period.

NewMan1982

Conspiracy theorist are such hard work. There is literally nothing you can show them or tell them that can change their minds no matter how many fact based articles dispute their claims.

They use anonymous unsubstantiated articles from random websites to back their stories.

Any of the ones I know in real life weren’t that smart.

Can the conspiracy theorists start a new thread please and leave this one for the facts.