new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

wakka12

Scrabbles38 wrote: »

Very true... you need to look at what is happening outside of China... the mortally rate will be the same for this virus no matter what county it is in... so if it’s 2% , 4%, even 10% we should be seeing it out side of China ... which we are not ... which leads me to believe it’s lower than 2%...

Plus in the USA so far this flu season 19million people have cought it ...180000 have been hospitalised.... and 10000 have died... I know they are different virus... but people need to cram down and take a breath

That is not true, different strains can become more prevalent in different regions. SARS mortality differed enormously by country.

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

lol

The funny thing is is that Vietnam, while having a prostitution problem, is far more conservative than a lot of Asain countries.



Man, if you can't see why somebody would go to another country for a teaching job besides sex, you need to take a cold shower.

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Ok, sh:*

I sent out 300 on Wednesday, hopefully that will get through. I look like a prepper now with a big box on the dining table.

You can do a roundabout delivery. Send to a neighboring country by air, and then, the package can be delivered through a hard land border, or through some ports. Be aware though that you'll probably lose half the contents due to theft.

I sent some things to my girlfriend through Vietnam, and then using an internal Chinese courier.

creditcarder

cryptocurrency wrote: »

But I can name a few others countries where you could call them sexpats

You have stroke my curiousity

cryptocurrency

creditcarder wrote: »

The funny thing is is that Vietnam, while having a prostitution problem, is far more conservative than a lot of Asain countries.



Man, if you can't see why somebody would go to another country for a teaching job besides sex, you need to take a cold shower.

depends on age, financial circumstances etc..

Like the example I gave, at 48 and his career backgorund it made no sense.

People of 30 and certinaly 35 should be trying to establish themselves, have a family, do gorwn up stuff like make a home, investments,

creditcarder

creditcarder wrote: »

You know most of the foreign students out of Japan to western countries are women? :P And the higest concentration of female expats is in Ireland, Britian, France and PAris...fancy that

Languages... Women in Asian countries tend to be directed towards language majors... or accounting. Accounting is one of the easier ways to obtain a visa in many western countries after graduation. Finance tends to have far more females than males.

cryptocurrency

creditcarder wrote: »

You have stroke my curiousity

i would suspect Turkey, North and West African nations. Many find guys in their 20's even though the women are pushing 70.

odyssey06

Scrabbles38 wrote: »

Very true... you need to look at what is happening outside of China... the mortally rate will be the same for this virus no matter what county it is in... so if it’s 2% , 4%, even 10% we should be seeing it out side of China ... which we are not ... which leads me to believe it’s lower than 2%...
Plus in the USA so far this flu season 19million people have cought it ...180000 have been hospitalised.... and 10000 have died... I know they are different virus... but people need to cram down and take a breath

The percentage of deaths is a factor of the medical treatement available to treat those needing hospitalisation.
Double the numbers infected, throw in flu and medical capacity could hit a black swan event.
The real figure of concern is the number of people needing hospitalisation v the capacity.
In Wuhan it looks like it has been overwhelmed.

jam_mac_jam

Is the sexpat chat relevant to the topic i wonder...

wakka12

Yes, in severe cases(which could be 10-20% of patients) the virus stops patients from being able to breathe on their own. This can be overcome with a ventilator machine and the patient will usually recover, but if there are no machines due to hospital overcrowding, obviously youll have a high mortality rate, like in Wuhan. Also apparently the amount youre exposed to the virus impacts it's severity, which is why you have some young people like that doctor dying of it

Duke of Url

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is the sexpat chat relevant to the topic i wonder...

It seems to be for cryptocurrency.

wakka12

7 new cases Thailand, number 2 after japan now

cryptocurrency

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is the sexpat chat relevant to the topic i wonder...

I agree, but neither is the off topic rants about the CPC government when there is a humanitarian crisis. I pointed out the sexpat thing to counter our resident anti Chinese poster and it seems to have shut him up.

Martina1991

wakka12 wrote:

So its official, China is not being truthful about the number killed by the virus. Japan's foreign ministry claim a Japanese citizen is likely to have died of coronavirus in a Wuhan hospital but had his cause of death listed as 'viral pneumonia'

Contracting Coronavirus on its own isnt enough to cause death. The virus can lead to viral pneunonia which can cause death.

Viral pneumonia can be caused by other respiratory viruses, so it does make sense to me that viral pneumonia is documented as the cause of death when they cant be 100% sure it was due to coronavirus.

I don't know if that's intended to sound misleading but maybe China categorises their causes of death differently, by final diagnosis rather than causative agent.

cryptocurrency

Martina1991 wrote: »

Contracting Coronavirus on its own isnt enough to cause death. The virus can lead to viral pneunonia which can cause death.

Viral pneumonia can be caused by other respiratory viruses, so it does make sense to me that viral pneumonia is documented as the cause of death when they cant be 100% sure it was due to coronavirus.

I don't know if that's intended to sound misleading but maybe China categorises their causes of death differently, by final diagnosis rather than causative agent.

Stop talking sense, you need to join the circling wagons or you are not one of us

I agree with the above. I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus. The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone.

No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are deliberately misleading.

Only time will tell how many were almost certainly nCoV.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with the above. I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus. The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone.

No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are deliberately misleading.

Only time will tell how many were almost certainly nCoV.

Remember when it comes to test results Ireland is an angel

Sephiroth_dude

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

Why are you attacking me?

Why are people thanking your post?

The anti-China racism on Boards is disgusting.

China is a great nation and is superior to Ireland. I will debate anyone on that issue and I will win.

Ireland is a sh*thole country. Does anyone disagree?

I'm ashamed to be Irish, based on how the Irish act on Boards.

Mod

Do not post in this thread again, we've all had enough of your trolling.

tom1ie

So have we any idea of the mortality rate of this virus from the stats outside of China?
Is it affecting people with underlying health conditions only or otherwise healthy?

VinLieger

tom1ie wrote: »

So have we any idea of the mortality rate of this virus from the stats outside of China?
Is it affecting people with underlying health conditions only or otherwise healthy?

Still to few international cases to say anything with certainty

4068ac1elhodqr

Would be interesting to see what percentage of those deaths in China were from smokers?
Assume the Chinese like an aul smoke now and again?
update: A quick web stat suggests 52% of men liek the smokes, but hardly any females.



Medical folks suggest it will more of an impact on people with significant respiratory illness (and smokers).
If you currently smoke, may want to get a loan of one of those hypnosis tapes and alter your neural network.

clever user name

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

Would be interesting to see what percentage of those deaths in China were from smokers?
Assume the Chinese like an aul smoke now and again?
update: A quick web stat suggests 52% of men liek the smokes, but hardly any females.



Medical folks suggest it will more of an impact on people with significant respiratory illness (and smokers).
If you currently smoke, may want to get a loan of one of those hypnosis tapes and alter your neural network.

Chinese men do smoke quite a bit to be fair.

On a side note, I'm only allowed leave my apartment complex once every 48 hours now :rolleyes:

odyssey06

tom1ie wrote: »

So have we any idea of the mortality rate of this virus from the stats outside of China?
Is it affecting people with underlying health conditions only or otherwise healthy?

It can infect otherwise healthy people but I read something to the effect that smokers may be more susceptible. Medical staff are warned to protect their eyes when treating patients.

Some previously healthy people have died from the coronavirus and smokers may be at higher risk, Ireland's chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan has said.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/smokers-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus-as-30-patients-here-are-tested-for-illness-38937423.html

Breakdown here from the BBC for China:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51214864

Scrabbles38

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I don't think so. Hosptials in China are overloaded. A case outside can have more focus and attention I would presume.

Yeah maybe but if it’s as deadly as everyone says than we should see the deaths out side China at the same rate ... but we aren’t ... the new cases in Canada the people that had the virus had mild cold symptoms and got better.. yes the infected another person... but I say there are thousands of people in China who had mild symptoms and got better and never got tested so the mortality rate is likely a lot lower than most people think

Scrabbles38

wakka12 wrote: »

That is not true, different strains can become more prevalent in different regions. SARS mortality differed enormously by country.

SARS mortality rate is 10% that does not change from country to country

Ten of Swords

Mod

The off topic posts have been deleted. Lets get the thread back on topic please

4068ac1elhodqr

Scrabbles38 wrote: »

Yeah maybe but if it’s as deadly as everyone says than we should see the deaths out side China at the same rate ... but we aren’t ...

Less than 1% of all cases are outside of China (where it been running rampant, for longer), so still too early to assess from the few hundred cases, at this stage it's just a matter of time.



Also an American citizen (unknown race) just died in Wuhan today.

fritzelly

Infected hospital doctors etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxBALf1YyiI

Wibbs

Just watched the latest vid from Dr John who seems to be popular goto for info. Was linked in a post above from BuileBeag which seems to have disappeared??

The part about it being a novel virus and this is so different? Eh… every virus your body encounters for the first time is “novel” if it wasn’t you’d not get sick. OK you can have some cross immunity from viruses if you’ve had similar, but that’s a bit of a stretch.

As for the Black Death(or the “bubonic death” as he calls it) the plague of the 1300’s wasn’t the first time it hit Europe. It had rightly buggered up the Byzantine empire in the 6th century and has been found in remains going back to the Bronze Age. Never mind that if modern Europeans, people who are the descendants of those who survived the Black Death are exposed to the plague today few enough have any immunity. Smallpox in the new world is a grey area as there is some evidence the locals were aware of the disease before the Europeans showed up and buggered the place, though it seems to have become significantly more virulent. Syphilis was most certainly present in the pre columbian Americas and was and remains the main origin blamed for it ravaging Europe. Though there is some evidence of its presence in the old world(a few monks in Hull one example, a couple of skeletons in Herculaneum), it really kicked off after the European discovery of the Americas. These are pretty basic errors for someone qualified and speaking as an authority.

Comparing SARS/MERS to this virus re pregnancy is complete supposition and IMHO just a tad hysterical, or the need to fill a video. The latter had a death rate of 11%, the latter 35%. And that’s with all the data in. This current dose looks to be significantly lower in death rate. Especially considering the chances are very high that many more than are counted have been exposed to this dose. The current death rate of this coronavirus is based on those sick enough to present to doctors and it’s still way lower than those other two.

While he’s worth watching he’s throwing around just as much supposition as anywhere else(that isn’t some tinfoil hat moron of course). Don’t automatically assume just because he’s qualified and using medical jargon that his opinion has the weight some are giving him. It's pretty much all supposition at this stage of the game.

What we know, or have a fairly decent idea of at this stage is that:

It's easy to catch.
It can be contagious without showing many or any symptoms.
It survives outside the host longer than viruses like influenza.
Men appear to be more affected than women.
Viral load exposure may be an issue? I noticed that of the younger healthier folks dying, many of them appear to be frontline medical staff like Dr Li.
The elderly and those with pre-existing chronic health issues at most risk.
In the majority the illness appears to relatively minor.
It takes about three weeks to clear the body.
In those where it becomes more serious it seems to do so in the second week, affecting the lungs through inflammation.
In those people supplementary O2 is the main treatment(though outside of China some have also got antibiotics as a preventative against secondary opportunistic bacterial infection). O2 by mask the first step, if that fails then comes intubation. If that doesn't work organ failure and a pine box.
Though there has been talk of tests using antivirals this seems to be vague as to efficacy.
The Chinese state apparatus are not to be trusted going on previous and current experiences.
Handwashing and covering the face and eyes gives the most protection.
We've a long way to go before the world gets a handle on this thing.

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with the above. I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus. The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone.
No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are deliberately misleading.
Only time will tell how many were almost certainly nCoV.

One of the significant issues with diagnosis is that there appears to be a serious shortage of test kits - leading to people not being diagnosed correctly.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-china-shortage-test-kits-lottery-2020-1

The other reported issue is where authorities reportedly told doctors not to declare Coronavirus on death certificates. The Doctor who died Dr Li was forced to apologise for 'spreading rumours' when it was later shown that he was one of the first to correctly dentify the dangers of the outbreak. Again it is unlikely reports on such deaths can be verified.

Boggles

Scrabbles38 wrote: »

SARS mortality rate is 10% that does not change from country to country

That's not true.

Canada had a 17% mortality rate, The USA had 0%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome

fritzelly

Look at the infected numbers around where they had the big dinner

4068ac1elhodqr

A bio-med engineer says a salt coated mask might be better than N95's
https://www.insider.com/mask-coated-in-salt-neutralizes-viruses-like-coronavirus-2020-2

Regular table salt is the key as it's crystalline and its hard, sharp corners can pierce viruses, rendering them unviable, within minuites.
Inactive with 5mins, destroyed with 30mins.

I always keep sea salt, vinegar and garlic at the door to keep the dark entities away (political vote canvasers, and tarmac-service providers), works very well.

VinLieger

Boggles wrote: »

That's not true.

Canada had a 17% mortality rate, The USA had 0%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome

Canada had 251 cases the US had 27 so not comparable when one had ten times the infections, also what were the demograohics of either group? Theres no point in trying to break these down by region as theres far too many variables.

odyssey06

gozunda wrote: »

The other reported issue is where authorities reportedly told doctors not to declare Coronavirus on death certificates. The Doctor who died Dr Li was forced to apologise for 'spreading rumours' when it was later shown that he was one of the first to correctly dentify the dangers of the outbreak. Again it is unlikely reports on such deaths can be verified.

Similar reports have come from people within Wuhan whose relations died of 'pneumonia' but doctors verbally told them the pneumonia was due to a novel type of virus e.g. see Wall Street journal article earlier in thread.

In the middle of a novel respiratory virus outbreak, while you may not be 100% sure that the pneumonia was caused by coronavirus, if you are seeing a massive surge in such cases and such deaths, you should be disclosing the deaths due to confirmed coronavirus and suspected coronavirus trigger of secondary condition.

Anything else is concealment at this stage.

gozunda

Three suspected cases UH Limerick still awaiting confirmation

https://www.newstalk.com/news/three-people-isolation-limerick-hospital-awaiting-test-results-coronavirus-964037

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

One of the significant issues with diagnosis is that there appears to be a serious shortage of test kits - leading to people not being diagnosed correctly.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-china-shortage-test-kits-lottery-2020-1

Right, that's why I said "The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone."

gozunda wrote: »

The other reported issue is where authorities reportedly told doctors not to declare Coronavirus on death certificates. The Doctor who died Dr Li was forced to apologise for 'spreading rumours' when it was later shown that he was one of the first to correctly dentify the dangers of the outbreak. Again it is unlikely reports on such deaths can be verified.

I'm not sure why you quoted me. As in I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me but I'm not disputing any of the above. As I said

I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus unless they tested positive.

Ok I think I should have added 'all' in this sentence.

No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are ALL deliberately misleading.


Hope thats clearer.

cameramonkey

gozunda wrote: »

Three suspected cases UH Limerick still awaiting confirmation

https://www.newstalk.com/news/three-people-isolation-limerick-hospital-awaiting-test-results-coronavirus-964037

Three suspected cases UH Limerick still awaiting all clear.

wellwhynot

gozunda wrote: »

Three suspected cases UH Limerick still awaiting confirmation

https://www.newstalk.com/news/three-people-isolation-limerick-hospital-awaiting-test-results-coronavirus-964037

Are these separate to the Kerry family?

s7ryf3925pivug

Three cases awaiting test results.

I guess I'm more of a "the glass is at 50% of its capacity" type of guy.

thecretinhop

White House Asks Scientists To Investigate Whether 2019-nCoV Was Bio-Engineered | Zero Hedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-whether-2019-ncov-was-bio-engineered

ThePopehimself

gozunda wrote: »

Three suspected cases UH Limerick still awaiting confirmation

Does anybody here know what the testing timeline is?

These cases have been in Isolation at UHL since yesterday afternoon - my understanding was that testing takes between 6 to 8 hours with the new Test Kits.

However, this news broke over 24 hours ago; can anyone shed light on what the delay might be? Much appreciated.

ThePopehimself

wellwhynot wrote: »

Are these separate to the Kerry family?

Yes.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right, that's why I said "The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone."I'm not sure why you quoted me. As in I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me but I'm not disputing any of the above. As I said I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus unless they tested positive. Ok I think I should have added 'all' in this sentence. No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are ALL deliberately misleading.Hope thats clearer.

A doctor can make a determination of death even without using 'test kits" based on patient, symptoms, medical diagnosis etc. However there are reports which suggest that Doctors were being told not to report the death as Coronavirus. Not the doctors being misleading in such cases - deliberately or otherwise imo.

Someone posted this previously

drunkmonkey

Do you think there's any truth to the underreporting by China?

Tencent briefly lists 154,023 infections and 24,589 deaths from Wuhan coronavirus
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594

tara73

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

I always keep sea salt, vinegar and garlic at the door to keep the dark entities away (political vote canvasers, and tarmac-service providers), works very well.

you are very funny. It's a tough thing this virus, and I'm shocked what's going on in China and it is pure horror for the people. really feel for them..but humour keeps you going and I like this humour...same with the '4 horsemen coach' in the uk..I can actually imagine it wasn't picked by accident, the british have a wicked humour too...:D

s7ryf3925pivug

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you think there's any truth to the underreporting by China?

Tencent briefly lists 154,023 infections and 24,589 deaths from Wuhan coronavirus
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594

The doctor who went public about the virus was arrested for rumour. So yes I think there is underreporting.

That doctor died of the virus. There is a lot of anger about it in China. I think they must suspect that his death was deliberate, to prevent him exposing failures on the part of the state when the virus emerged.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

A doctor can make a determination of death even without using 'test kits" based on patient, symptoms and treatment However there are reports which suggest that Doctors were being told not to report the death as Coronavirus. Not the doctors being misleading in such cases - deliberately or otherwise imo.

Someone posted this previously

Fair enough. I thought cause of death had to be recorded as what actually caused the death unless proven otherwise. I'm busy and can't think of a decent example but something along the lines of recording a death as suffocation rather than anaphylaxis, if for some reason it was not tested for before or after the death. Obviously I'm wrong in that regard. Apologies.

Anyway, as I said I'm not disputing that in some cases they are being deliberately untruthful or fudging the numbers.

VinLieger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right, that's why I said "The patient would need to have tested positive and we know they don't have the capacity to test everyone."




I'm not sure why you quoted me. As in I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me but I'm not disputing any of the above. As I said

I don't think a doctor can infer cause of death on official documents, even if they're quite sure the pneumonia stemmed from coronavirus unless they tested positive.

Ok I think I should have added 'all' in this sentence.

No doubt the cause of death in many cases are misleading but that doesn't mean they are ALL deliberately misleading.


Hope thats clearer.

No this is not whats happening, China do not record deaths in the way the rest of the world does, they list only one cause.

An example is say a patient had coronavirus which caused pneumonia and then organ failure, its likely only organ failure or pneumonia would be listed as cause of death.

Every other country in the world would have the cause be organ failure or pneumonia and then list everything else wrong that in some way contributed to the death.

Its for this reason china has an impossibly low seasonal flu mortality rate because they dont record flu as the cause of death.

VinLieger

thecretinhop wrote: »

White House Asks Scientists To Investigate Whether 2019-nCoV Was Bio-Engineered | Zero Hedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-whether-2019-ncov-was-bio-engineered

Take anything posted by zerohedge with a grain of salt, its an alt right blog run anonymously who doxxed a chinese doctor a few weeks back because they thought he engineered and released the coronavirus as a weapon, fyi he didnt, he was actually one of the original whistleblowers