new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We are either doomed or not. What do you think?

Far too early to tell.

China to me has played both sides of the coin, let them at it as long as they don't denigrate the regime, and the regime can make millions or trillions or whatever as a result.

As if anyone had a choice. China will do what it wants regardless of what anyone says.

Clever. Hope this Corona thing is not that bad. But sure who knows. Would you trust the Chinese Government to tell the world about the reality of this?

Nope... but then I'd feel the same way about Russia or the US.

They really have to curtail bat soup and the feet of some animals etc. Anyway I speak from experience in Beijing a few years ago. Went with the flow but was starving. It all looked awful to my (cosseted in Ireland) palate, but there was bread of some sort. Grand.

Never seen bat soup anywhere in China. I've eaten many odd dishes but then I've seen just as weird stuff in India, and Russia. Beijing has two main streets dedicated to "Famine food" which is hardly popular. Still, plenty of choices like Chicken feet, although that's mostly just gristle, and very little meat. The eating of brain is yuckier. Although I've encountered similar foods (brain, feet, etc) in various forms in Europe too. You should have had the grasshoppers in Beijing.. Yum.

Dante7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope... but then I'd feel the same way about Russia or the US.

That's bullshīt. The CDC in the US would be all over this and reporting honestly.

ChikiChiki

NIMAN wrote: »

They are building a hospital made up of portacabins in a field.

I don't think Irish people would settle for hospitals like that.

Funny enough there would be a lot of people on trolleys happy with Portocabins in a field right now.

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

The usual hyperbole from people with little idea of what it's like to live or teach in Mainland China. I've taught there for over a decade, in both private and public schools/universities.

I've spoken about Taiwan, Tibet, etc in classes without losing my job, or receiving any warnings. I have been called up to speak to their "morality department" whose role is to protect the minds of the students, but that was for discussing contraceptives & sex in a class. Right now, it's not a good idea to be "open" simply because of the desire to return China to being a more moral and traditional society.

It entirely depends on the type of institution, and how political they are. Any foreigner living in China knows that they should moderate their speech, and to avoid political subjects.. It's just easier, because few Chinese people will accept your opinion or knowledge on the subject, which will be seen as a result of western propaganda. It's generally a requirement for any foreigner wanting to stay here long-term to be aware of the social and political changes that happen. It's the foreigners who come for a "gap" year with a chip on their shoulder, putting down China, who tend to receive any condemnation or criticism.. and it's usually deserved. I've noticed that foreigners who talk politics in China tend to be rather ignorant of Chinese history, or have a very shallow understanding of the culture... Just throwing around western logic or morality on a very different situation.

As for making videos/Youtube, the government has issues with anything made official. You can say a lot of things here, but recording anything negative is a "no no". It's common knowledge.

Hmmm, so I have little knowledge?

ygolometsipe

theguzman wrote: »

PC ALERT, it always a fake when it is the unpalatable truth....

That's garbage nonsense. Prove to me that that specif video is 100% authentic.
How does political correctness have anything to do with the validity of a video?


Forget your anecdotal experience. Videos on the internet are 100% not to be trusted because they can be extremely convincingly faked.

kevcos

ygolometsipe wrote: »

That's garbage nonsense. Prove to me that that specif video is 100% authentic.
How does political correctness have anything to do with the validity of a video?


Forget your anecdotal experience. Videos on the internet are 100% not to be trusted because they can be extremely convincingly faked.

Post needs more superlatives

wakka12

Another huge increase in the number of cases today, now closer to 2,000 infections worldwide than the 1,000 or so yesterday, with 54 fatalities and nearly 200 in serious/critical conditions
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/01/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Has also been a case in a new country, in Canada
https://www.cp24.com/news/presumptive-positive-coronavirus-case-detected-in-toronto-1.4783476

ygolometsipe

kevcos wrote: »

Post needs more superlatives

At all times, your extremely demanding in the worst possible way. It's highly infuriating trying to suit your simplistically low needs and yet meet the ridiculously high standards of posts only boards.ie requires.

Happy?

creditcarder

wakka12 wrote: »

Another huge increase in the number of cases today, now closer to 2,000 infections worldwide than the 1,000 or so yesterday, with 54 fatalities and nearly 200 in serious/critical conditions
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/01/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Has also been a case in a new country, in Canada
https://www.cp24.com/news/presumptive-positive-coronavirus-case-detected-in-toronto-1.4783476

Aren't most of them in China? Hmmm, one in ten in critical/serious conditions is actually worrisome, but I guess that depends on what critical condition is.



Yeah, I'm going to wait on my trip to south east asia tbh. Not for fear of dying, but getting a flue would suck.

careless sherpa

thecretinhop wrote: »

Watch "Do Chinese people really EAT DOGS?" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/3I7oe3MKNF0

Didn't know it was common to kidnap family dogs and then torture and kill then for food. Barbaric. The image from that greyhound doc on rte of a fella throwng a dog into a boiling vat of oil and holding the lid down is one of the worst I have seen.

wakka12

creditcarder wrote: »

Aren't most of them in China? Hmmm, one in ten in critical/serious conditions is actually worrisome, but I guess that depends on what critical condition is.



Yeah, I'm going to wait on my trip to south east asia tbh. Not for fear of dying, but getting a flue would suck.

Almost entirely in China so far, yeah.
https://thewuhanvirus.com/
The cases are growing remarkably quickly though it has over 2,000 now in China, with nearly 2700 more suspected.
Given that most fatalities are over 55 years old I'd say the hospital admissions are skewed, and many healthy young people are simply not going to hospital to be checked up and just pushing through the illness at home. I think this will just turn out to be very similar to the seasonal flu, but always better to be safe than sorry.

megatron989

All the talk of it being like seasonal flu and the numbers not being so bad just doesn't equal the chinese response we are seeing. That's what worries me and a lot of you by the sounds of it.
You don't quarantine tens of millions over a normal oul flu outbreak. Reeks of some kind of (wispers) cover up...

wakka12

BUt 'quarantine' doesnt mean the city is actually locked down or people cant leave their home or whatever we traditionally associate with the word, it just means public transport and flights stopped running. Not much else to it. I think there were similar reactions from world governments to swine flu which turned out to be like seasonal flu

Graces7

Witchie wrote: »

Was meant to be out tonight but stayed home. Am thinking of going out tomorrow night but am still a bit worried. I am still sneezing and coughing from the flu I am just getting over so probably not a good idea to go out or people will think I am infected and run away.

Stay home for all reasons.. Rest, heal; flu takes it out of you. And yes, you will scare folk! They will run away as if you have leprosy!

BLIZZARD7

wakka12 wrote: »

BUt 'quarantine' doesnt mean the city is actually locked down or people cant leave their home or whatever we traditionally associate with the word, it just means public transport and flights stopped running. Not much else to it. I think there were similar reactions from world governments to swine flu which turned out to be like seasonal flu

In Wuhan people are told to stay inside unless absolutely necessary to leave, private car use is banned aswell as public transport. The roads in and out of the city are literally blocked off with soil and concrete blocks. The place is a complete ghost town, Not sure what else you would do to 'quarantine' the city.

The global economy will take a serious hit if this keeps spreading/they expand the quarantine zone to the likes of Shanghai/Beijing. Personally I'd agree with the view of what is really going on if they are reacting this extremely? Definitely wouldn't trust the Chinese to be telling the full truth, they have form with these things.

1,985 confirmed cases, including 10 in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan
- 56 deaths
- 49 cured
- 2,684 suspected cases
R0 around 2.5?

There's not much a country can do. 1.4bn people, 40% of whom are living rurally doing the same stuff they've always done. Diseases and the like just stem from these weird food practices unfortunately. Add in lunar new year travel and it's worse.

I don't think random Chinese people deserve to die because some people eat these weird dishes on special occasions.

McGiver

[Deleted User] wrote: »

1,985 confirmed cases, including 10 in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan
- 56 deaths
- 49 cured
- 2,684 suspected cases
R0 around 2.5?

There's not much a country can do. 1.4bn people, 40% of whom are living rurally doing the same stuff they've always done. Diseases and the like just stem from these weird food practices unfortunately. Add in lunar new year travel and it's worse.

I don't think random Chinese people deserve to die because some people eat these weird dishes on special occasions.

What weird dishes? Virtually all influenza virus outbreaks and mutations originate in China and in poultry and/or pigs. The same goes to sars and this coronavirus it seems.
It's not originating from the snakes or monkeys brains...

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

What weird dishes? Virtually all influenza virus outbreaks and mutations originate in China and in poultry and/or pigs. The same goes to sars and this coronavirus it seems.
It's not originating from the snakes or monkeys brains...

Thought I read bats or mice or something on here so was responding to that. Ebola was bats I think but not as food.

Even with pigs, there are weird dishes. I eat a fermented pork thing here in Vietnam, and that always seems a bit dodge. Raw blood is another delicacy I've tried that would seem more likely to allow some disease be transferred.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti%E1%BA%BFt_canh

McGiver

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thought I read bats or mice or something on here so was responding to that. Ebola was bats I think but not as food.

Even with pigs, there are weird dishes. I eat a fermented pork thing here in Vietnam, and that always seems a bit dodge. Raw blood is another delicacy I've tried that would seem more likely to allow some disease be transferred.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti%E1%BA%BFt_canh

AFAIK bats are posited to be implicated as intermediary hosts. With the all these Chinese origin pandemic (various influenza viruses HxNx, Sars etc) it's always down to pork and poultry. But yeah even with that there might be some let's say less than hygienic practices.

Now, HIV, Ebola and other nasty African stuff that's the real weird stuff. Read on hypotheses on how HIV got transmitted/transposed too humans...

LaFuton

FIRST! HAHA
its the end of the world as we know it
can't say we weren't prepared
im buying loads of tuna cans etc
see ye in the mountains x

pc7

UK foreign office advising their people to leave the region, is that not bad advice and will spread it? Getting a bit nervy if it keeps spreading, 1.4 billion on lockdown! That’s unfathomable.

thecretinhop

Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It | Zero Hedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it

volchitsa

Well if China weaponised it, they did a sh1te job, since it's mostly their own people and their own economy being damaged by it.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

AFAIK bats are posited to be implicated as intermediary hosts. With the all these Chinese origin pandemic (various influenza viruses HxNx, Sars etc) it's always down to pork and poultry. But yeah even with that there might be some let's say less than hygienic practices.

Now, HIV, Ebola and other nasty African stuff that's the real weird stuff. Read on hypotheses on how HIV got transmitted/transposed too humans...

I stand corrected...

The coronavirus cases have been linked to the South China Seafood Wholesale Market, in Wuhan.

But while some sea-going mammals can carry coronaviruses (such as the Beluga whale), the market also has live wild animals, including chickens, bats, rabbits, snakes, which are more likely to be the source.

Researchers say the new virus is closely related to one found in Chinese horseshoe bats.

theguzman

theguzman wrote: »

PC ALERT, it always a fake when it is the unpalatable truth. Its a well known fact that the Chinese will eat practically anything,

No, It's a ignorant generalisation. People in Guandong have a reputation for eating anything. You won't find such practices across the whole country. You're talking about a huge country with a massive population, and over 50 different ethnic cultures. Some are more traditional than others.

these are the same barbarians that have Elephants and Rhinos plus a whole host of critically endangered wildlife on the verge of extinction because they think that they are aphrodisiacs.

Which can be thrown at many peoples/cultures in Africa and Asia.

Dog and Cat are routinely consumed and they have an entire dog meat festival in Yulin, China dedicated to eating dogs.

Any links to prove that cat and dog are routinely eaten across all of China? I've encountered it but rarely (mostly southern China), and it faces a lot of criticism within mainland China.

If people had a bit of respect for animals and understand that some are for eating and just let others alone as nature intended.

Fair enough, although I suspect that nature intended us to eat anything except ourselves.

nevermind.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Any links to prove that cat and dog are routinely eaten across all of China? I've encountered it but rarely (mostly southern China), and it faces a lot of criticism within mainland China.

This guy says they eat dogs in every part of China. He's lived there for years and his videos show him travelling to many parts.

https://youtu.be/3I7oe3MKNF0?t=59

He also says that what you're saying above "oh, they only do that in --- part of China" is a common response, and untrue.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy says they eat dogs in every part of China. He's lived there for years and his videos show him travelling to many parts.

https://youtu.be/3I7oe3MKNF0?t=59

He also says that what you're saying above "oh, they only do that in --- part of China" is a common response, and untrue.

Fair enough. (it's worth watching the whole video though)

4068ac1elhodqr

pc7 wrote: »

UK foreign office advising their people to leave the region, is that not bad advice and will spread it? Getting a bit nervy if it keeps spreading, 1.4 billion on lockdown! That’s unfathomable.

Not just the uk, every foreign state is at it, from Japan to India to US and other Europeans.
On one hand there is a sense of duty, however with reports that it can spread even before any even symtoms show, repatriation could be the wrong decision in the longer term.



A full Chinese state lockdown (which kinda seems to be occuring anyway) is the best hope at this stage as the int'l numbers are still low. But that would have to include zero flights out the country until a vax becomes available.

The Rape of Lucretia

Impossible to judge the seriousness of this outbreak. The press, even The Good Old Guardian, putting no perspective on the magnitude. When you are in the headlines business, I guess whatever the biggest story you've got - or decide to make - becomes a BIG story.

Remember the Aussie bush fires, the news leading position, and rolling updates? Presumably that's all solved now. Winter flue - how many catch that and die every year. Is it clearly of lesser impact?

4068ac1elhodqr

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Remember the Aussie bush fires, the news leading position, and rolling updates? Presumably that's all solved now.

There was never much of a chance of those bush fires reaching the packed cities of Mumbai, NY or Lagos, nevermind Alice Springs.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Winter flue - how many catch that and die every year. Is it clearly of lesser impact?

Regular winter flu has a regular vaccine. This is a Novel (new) virus, likely derived from bats/snakes, may be subject to 2nd wave mutation, and (although still early) might indicate a fatality rate of 2%, (x20), compared to the regular 0.1%.

Yurt2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any links to prove that cat and dog are routinely eaten across all of China? I've encountered it but rarely (mostly southern China), and it faces a lot of criticism within mainland China.

You don't need a link. Open your 百度地图 app and plug in 狗肉 and a city name. Every city in China you can think of (including those north of the Yangtze) will turn up results of dog meat restaurants. It's not as prevalent among the young or wealthy, but the practice of consumption of dog meat is nationwide.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

You don't need a link. Open your 百度地图 app and plug in 狗肉 and a city name. Every city in China you can think of (including those north of the Yangtze) will turn up results of dog meat restaurants. It's not as prevalent among the young or wealthy, but the practice of consumption of dog meat is nationwide.

No, I get that. I know of a few restaurants who do serve it. It's just that it seemed to be a rarity in terms of people eating it. Still, as the other poster provided, the YouTube vid does explain the conditions.

1641

So the Chinese health ministry are now saying that the incubation period for the virus is anything up to 14 days and that people are infectious during this period. They closed the Seafood Market (where wild animals were also sold) on the 1st January so the outbreak must have started before then. How many people (including carriers) will have travelled far from Wuhan long before the shutdown this week? Apparently the station for the high speed intercity trains is only a short walk from the market. The chances of any sort of containment are minimal.

Also, reports today that the outbreak in Wuhan is much worse than is being officially reported. The existing hospitals are only capable of admitting a fraction of patients presenting and that many more are being cared for (by necessity) at home, with plenty of deaths from complications. So official incidence and mortality rates seem unreliable and inaccurate.

tom1ie

NIMAN wrote: »

They are building a hospital made up of portacabins in a field.

I don't think Irish people would settle for hospitals like that.

Why not! Wouldn’t bother me!

a seafood market, 800km from the coast? No feckin wonder!

1641

1641 wrote:

The chances of any sort of containment are minimal.

Honestly, I can't really see how they would limit the spread effectively beyond shutting down rail/road links. Even without it being the Spring Festival.

I'd consider containment to be a pipe-dream. Just as I'm wondering at the lack of effort internationally to contain it in airports.

wakka12

Big push from Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kong residents to completely shut their borders to China

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1504836-20200125.htm
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/01/26/national/japan-ldp-full-scale-border-control-measures-wuhan-china-virus/#.Xi2LeRP7Qb2
https://www.hk01.com/%E5%8D%B3%E6%99%82%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B/426676/%E6%AD%A6%E6%BC%A2%E8%82%BA%E7%82%8E-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E5%85%A8%E9%9D%A2%E7%A6%81%E6%AD%A2%E6%B9%96%E5%8C%97%E7%9C%81%E4%BA%BA%E5%A3%AB%E5%85%A5%E5%A2%83-%E6%9A%AB%E7%B7%A9%E9%99%B8%E7%B1%8D%E4%BA%BA%E5%A3%AB%E8%B5%B4%E5%8F%B0%E7%94%B3%E8%AB%8B

First suspected case in Vienna
https://en24.news/2020/01/deadly-corona-virus-first-suspicion-in-vienna-vienna.html

The virus is transmittable before symptoms show, making containment very difficult.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51254523

1641

1641 wrote: »

So the Chinese health ministry are now saying that the incubation period for the virus is anything up to 14 days and that people are infectious during this period. They closed the Seafood Market (where wild animals were also sold) on the 1st January so the outbreak must have started before then. How many people (including carriers) will have travelled far from Wuhan long before the shutdown this week? Apparently the station for the high speed intercity trains is only a short walk from the market. The chances of any sort of containment are minimal.

Also, reports today that the outbreak in Wuhan is much worse than is being officially reported. The existing hospitals are only capable of admitting a fraction of patients presenting and that many more are being cared for (by necessity) at home, with plenty of deaths from complications. So official incidence and mortality rates seem unreliable and inaccurate.

well 9 direct flights into Australia from Wuhan (many more from other Chinese cities since it was discovered in December. But if incubation is 5-14 days then its really only the flights since mid January that have been spreading stuff

“More than 40 direct China flights will arrive in Australia today,” Patrick said on Friday.

https://indaily.com.au/news/2020/01/24/china-flights-to-australia-questioned-amid-virus-epidemic-fears/


how many into Europe?

SauNewb

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20200125-new-coronavirus-appears-less-serious-than-sars-says-french-doctor


It seems to be spreading rapidly in Wuhan.
The 3 cases in France is still only 3. Good sign.

There is no way Ireland could deal with an outbreak.

The Rape of Lucretia

50,000 deaths from the 17/18 winter flu virus in the UK alone. I don't remember it getting particular attention or new interest. Nor the UK being locked down.
Maybe this week was just a slow news week, and nothing to see here.

wakka12

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

50,000 deaths from the 17/18 winter flu virus in the UK alone. I don't remember it getting particular attention or new interest. Nor the UK being locked down.
Maybe this week was just a slow news week, and nothing to see here.

Based on current stats, it is several magnitudes more dangerous than seasonal flu, killing 2-3% of patients and hospitalising 10% of those infected. Mortality rates of seasonal flu are nowhere near that level. Do you not think there is something in the fact that China is locking down cities while it didnt happen in the UK for seasonal flu? You don't quarantine megacities indefinitely on a whim

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

50,000 deaths from the 17/18 winter flu virus in the UK alone. I don't remember it getting particular attention or new interest. Nor the UK being locked down.
Maybe this week was just a slow news week, and nothing to see here.

This is different. It's a novel virus. Flu has an effective kill rate of 0.1%. If the Wuhan flu is around 2.5-5%. it could potentially kill many multiples of that especially if otherwise healthy people are dying. The main concerns are human to human transmission and latency until symptoms.

I'm not particularly worried at the moment but this has potential to be a huge medical issue.

Having beers with a lad working in Beijing. School back delayed, where he works anyways.

Graces7

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

50,000 deaths from the 17/18 winter flu virus in the UK alone. I don't remember it getting particular attention or new interest. Nor the UK being locked down.
Maybe this week was just a slow news week, and nothing to see here.

Which century are you referring to please? I just checked the 2017.18 stats and nothing like that number ../ The Guardian quotes 155 and that that was 3 times more than 2017

Wondering are you referring to the Spanish flu of 1917/18 ?

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy says they eat dogs in every part of China. He's lived there for years and his videos show him travelling to many parts.

https://youtu.be/3I7oe3MKNF0?t=59

He also says that what you're saying above "oh, they only do that in --- part of China" is a common response, and untrue.

Pretty knowledgeable guy about China. Dubious character, but he does have a lot of information.

bodhrandude

[HTML][/HTML]

Graces7 wrote: »

Which century are you referring to please? I just checked the 2017.18 stats and nothing like that number ../ The Guardian quotes 155 and that that was 3 times more than 2017

Wondering are you referring to the Spanish flu of 1917/18 ?

Yep Grace I think it is reference to the 1917/18 Spanish flu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

bilston

I was reading earlier that it's thought that swine flu infected about 12% of the world's population in 2009 and killed about 200,000 people.

If Coronavirus were to infect the same number of people you are talking 25 million deaths based on the current .totality rate.

Containment is essential...hence China closing off cities

The Rape of Lucretia

Graces7 wrote: »

Which century are you referring to please? I just checked the 2017.18 stats and nothing like that number ../ The Guardian quotes 155 and that that was 3 times more than 2017

Wondering are you referring to the Spanish flu of 1917/18 ?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-vaccine-deaths-nhs-ineffective-crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html%3famp

Nó. 2017.

GooglePlus

bilston wrote: »

I was reading earlier that it's thought that swine flu infected about 12% of the world's population in 2009 and killed about 200,000 people.

If Coronavirus were to infect the same number of people you are talking 25 million deaths based on the current .totality rate.

Containment is essential...hence China closing off cities

That was a flu, this isn't the same.

This will lose the run of itself fairly soon.