CCTV Request - Garda superintendents letter

listermint

ED E wrote: »

Gard told a friend that a motorist received points for an offence he reported. Later found out that the Gard did nothing just wanted him to stop following up.

Gardai with crap attidues and work ethics are not uncommon.

A guard can't issue points based of the hearsay from another person though... Why would your friend or you believe they can.

GM228

Azizur Rahman wrote: »

Last paragraph above pulled for one of the links you posted, surely any Garda to not be disciplined for not carrying out an investigation would find it tough to show they had a good and sufficient cause to not do so?

Good and sufficient cause would equate to a legally sufficient cause which is what discretion is.

People miss the point being made that the code and disciplinary actions are taken under the Garda Síochána Act 2005 and that nothing in the Act can trump the common law power of discretion, that is a fact and provided for under the Act itself, discretion is supreme to any requirement to act and any disciplinary action for failure to act, only common law or an Act of the Oireachtas can change that position, not a code or even ministerial regulation.

BaronVon

GM228 wrote: »

Good and sufficient cause would equate to a legally sufficient cause which is what discretion is.

People miss the point being made that the code and disciplinary actions are taken under the Garda Síochána Act 2005 and that nothing in the Act can trump the common law power of discretion, that is a fact and provided for under the Act itself, discretion is supreme to any requirement to act and any disciplinary action for failure to act, only common law or an Act of the Oireachtas can change that position, not a code or even ministerial regulation.

Would you consider it necessary that Gardaí have this ultimate discretion? As you pointed out earlier, putting a duty of care on the police would overburden the police force, and grind it to a halt.

Or is it something that should be looked at with a view to changing?

ghost of ireland past

Discretion appears to be little more than dereliction of duty by another name, in many cases. I have written to the Garda Press Office pointing that out and I've received no reply.

I don't accept that the Garda as an institution can refuse to investigate serious crimes, like murder for example.

If 50 people are murdered at once and the killers run off in 50 different directions then I accept that a single policeman cannot run after them all, and the single policeman must use judgement or discretion to make a choice as to what to do.

But the organisation cannot simply refuse to investigate serious crime while doing nothing else. I accept there are many examples in Ireland and the UK of the police refusing or failing to do their job in relation to extremely serious matters. I'm not impressed.


The police seem intent upon alienating the public with their carry on.

Someone asked what crimes was I talking about in relation to Martin Callinan and Dave Taylor.
I'm talking about their corruption, and the destruction of Maurice McCabe's life.

Martin is despicable, as is Dave. Again, I have written to the Garda Press Office on this issue too and they have ignored me. It's no wonder that I refuse to follow cannabis laws, and the press office knows that if you're wondering, as I've told them, using my real name and address.

The police have betrayed the public, as have politicians. It's not good enough.

Always Tired

FionnK86 wrote: »

Thanks for your opinion.

I intend to proceed with inquiry, with belief that justice system works and crime doesn’t pay.

I pay taxes, I deserve to reclaim that through use of public services, especially when I’m €1000 out of pocket.

We all wish things in Ireland worked a certain way.

They don't. You're wasting your timede.

You should have said that some guys in the carpark offered to sell you some drugs, they'd have the place staked out 24/7 then.

GM228

BaronVon wrote: »

Would you consider it necessary that Gardaí have this ultimate discretion? As you pointed out earlier, putting a duty of care on the police would overburden the police force, and grind it to a halt.

Or is it something that should be looked at with a view to changing?

Discretion is necessary without a doubt, that is accepted by scholars, governments and Courts (including the ECtHR) the world over, however the question to ask is to how far the scope of such should extend.

KWAG2019

GM228 wrote: »

Discretion is necessary without a doubt, that is accepted by scholars, governments and Courts (including the ECtHR) the world over, however the question to ask is to how far the scope of such should extend.

The scope is one area. The bases upon which it is executed another. Discretion is one tool for managing caseload and costs and public cost is the great elephant in the room. The bases and scope of discretion are very straightforward to deal with by a properly implemented data management system. The current cost for designing and implementing that would be about 200 million. Sorry 500 million. Sorry 1.5 billion. Sorry 1.8 billion. I am making up the numbers because that’s how it’s done.

KWAG2019

GM228 wrote: »

Probably taken out of context, they essentially said the public may feel that, not that it has happened, and it's based on personal theft statistics in four forces only so does not necessarily represent the UK as a whole.

The comment is following a fall in potential charge and the exact comment from the CBA was "If charging rates fall to close to or even zero, then the public fast feels offences are in effect being decriminalised".

I can't find the original statement on line. The Sky link to Telegraph did mention personal theft and four areas as well as other statistics from other areas where a decline was noted. In regard to the quote you use the rate has fallen close to zero which effectively means decriminalised as there will be a vanishingly small rate of criminal convictions for same. That is a different level of the rather arch "public fast feels" of the quote. The CBA is of course trying to exploit the stats to restore the legal aid scheme in UK and restore fee levels which is its transactional raison d'etre and seeking to play the public opinion card. The response to this effective decriminalization will be interesting to watch in the UK as we rapidly follow the same path.

Lmklad

This turned interesting. Please correct me if I’m wrong GM228. Gardai have the common law discretion to not investigate or prosecute most of not all crimes reported?

If this is so then why should any Garda do any work ever?

Samuel T. Cogley

Lmklad wrote: »

If this is so then why should any Garda do any work ever?

Because the vast majority are dedicated and committed to doing a good job. Furthermore legal or not they would be disciplined.