No right wing alternative= No alternative

Huntergonzo

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

It's more nuanced this is a nice primer

www.politicalcompass.org

Interesting test, apparently I'm a right leaning libertarian, now there's some beautiful labels :-)

Clarence Boddiker

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

In what way are you far right ?

I'm very much against mass immigration and enforced diversity, don't consider myself far right of course but these days being anti immigration gets you labeled a full blown Nazi.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well as a matter of interest what do you consider yourself if anything?

I agree there are loads of differing views and that they probably represent the majority (rather than the minority if noisy extremists), that's my point.

Depends on the issue. My stances on some subjects would be considered left and some right - probably the same as most peopel on here, which is why I brought up the subject of your use of the lables you claimed to hate. That said, none of my viewpoints would be considered religious or kale-eating.

Your point seems to have shifted since I initially replied, but that might just be
you misleading with your use of the lables "left" and "right".

Huntergonzo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Depends on the issue. My stances on some subjects would be considered left and some right - probably the same as most peopel on here, which is why I brought up the subject of your use of the lables you claimed to hate. That said, none of my viewpoints would be considered religious or kale-eating.

Your point seems to have shifted since I initially replied, but that might just be
you misleading with your use of the lables "left" and "right".

I'll be honest with you I get the feeling you may be on either the far left or right given the great offence you seem to have taken to a particular comment I made.

Now I could be wrong of course and if I am so be it but I find it strange how you've gotten such a bee in your bonnet over this.

Ps, I never claimed to 'hate' labels, I said "I'm not a big fan of political labels". Now I have no issue you debating my points (although I'd prefer if you were a bit more open about your own views by giving examples), but please don't make things up to support your arguments.

Lonesomerhodes

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

You seem confused, half the things you outline above aren't "right" or "left" issues and several of them are actually left wing ideas!

There is nothing inherently right or left about "supporting" the EU. The EU is basically a customs and trading union. The most right wing government in Europe is Hungary and their leader has stated repeatedly that they have no intention to leave or to attempt to leave the EU.

"Refuse to question the money doctors get from pharmaceutical firms". This is a left wing issue. The idea that government should regulate payments made to doctors by corporations is 100% a "leftie" idea. As I say, you seem confused.

Abortion is not a left/right issue. Tons of people on the libertarian branch of the right fervently support a woman's right to choose while numerous people WITHIN the Church would categorize themselves as "left" in regard to social justice, supporting the welfare state, immigration rights, etc. etc. Again. this isn't a right/left issue.

Asking for referendums on issues isn't right/left either. Not sure why you are all for this since if there were referendums on the two main things you seem to care about: abortion and EU membership the populace would not be voting the way you want them to. We just had a referendum on abortion by the way - how did that work out?

I could go on. The point is that right wing parties don't exist because there is no demand for them. Ireland is a CENTRIST nation, most people vote on the principle of individual parties policies in regards to healthcare, job creation, tax policy etc. Things are far from perfect here, but our approach to politics is MASSIVELY superior to that of the US where I live, where people increasingly vote on left/right IDEOLOGY and ignore the individual policies of the parties. This has given rise to an idiotic political discourse and a system of government that is consistently failing the population. I think most Irish people are smart enough not to want that here - hence the reason that ideology based parties largely don't exist here thank God.

Yes some of the points I had are left wing too shock horror. I'm not saying I'm far right just we have no right alternative.

No conservative Nationalist party that questions immigration or direct provision for example.

Also the idea someone can be openly political left and pro life is absurd. Never met one and know people who were in a Socialist party who were pro life who basically got hounded out of the party due to their pro life beliefs and very sternly asked to leave the party.
So much for tolerance and diversity eh!.

Name one, just one openly socialist/left TD who is pro life for example?.

You assume I'm confused perhaps I am but certainly not as much as you!.

You mention living in America then type 'Most Irish people are smart enough not to want that here'

Here? Where?. Where you live in America?. This is Ireland we're talking about!.

Personally take an Irish Trump over Varadkar any day.

You seem to jump between referencing America and Ireland in your post which makes your good self seem as confused as Scooby Doo.

Gloomtastic!

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes some of the points I had are left wing too shock horror. I'm not saying I'm far right just we have no right alternative.

No conservative Nationalist party that questions immigration or direct provision for example.

Also the idea someone can be openly political left and pro life is absurd. Never met one and know people who were in a Socialist party who were pro life who basically got hounded out of the party due to their pro life beliefs and very sternly asked to leave the party.
So much for tolerance and diversity eh!.

Name one, just one openly socialist/left TD who is pro life for example?.

You assume I'm confused perhaps I am but certainly not as much as you!.

You mention living in America then type 'Most Irish people are smart enough not to want that here'

Here? Where?. Where you live in America?. This is Ireland we're talking about!.

Personally take an Irish Trump over Varadkar any day.

You seem to jump between referencing America and Ireland in your post which makes your good self seem as confused as Scooby Doo.

Peadar Tóibín?

is_that_so

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I'm very much against mass immigration and enforced diversity, don't consider myself far right of course but these days being anti immigration gets you labeled a full blown Nazi.

How are you on EU membership? That's where the vast bulk of the mass immigration comes from, legally.
Labels are how people who can't string together a reasoned thought deal with ideas they disagree with but can't counter. That said, people don't help themselves by not developing more nuanced stances.

Lonesomerhodes

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Peadar Tóibín?

Aontú aren't really left.

Sorta middle of the road, indeed anyone proper left call them far right!.

is_that_so

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Aontú aren't really left.

Sorta middle of the road, indeed anyone proper left call them far right!.

Proper left calls anyone who splits from them hard right or worse still, sellouts!

Lonesomerhodes

is_that_so wrote: »

Proper left calls anyone who splits from them hard right or worse still, sellouts!

True,

Knew people in a certain party that concerns itself with socialist issues and people instead of profit (well on paper) that got hounded out of the party as they were pro life and had pro life views.
The hostility they received was second to none, had no choice but to leave the party.

Ironically the left moan and whinge about fascism when they couldn't be any more fascist themselves.

Their beliefs are basically agree with us on absolutely everything otherwise you are a Neanderthal Nazi.

Ironically the people they refer to as Nazi are open to debate!.

For example the lady who organised the rally for free speech is a barrister and would mince any of them in a debate was open to debate and encouraged debate. What did hard lefties do?.

Harass and threaten her life online!.
She released a video stating she has had countless death threats for shock horror believing free speech is important!.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Ireland is a CENTRIST nation, most people vote on the principle of individual parties policies in regards to healthcare, job creation, tax policy etc.

Ireland is a centre-left nation with a significant minority on the far left and practically no right-wing presence.

Some people vote on the basis of policies; others vote for the party they and their family have always traditionally voted for, and still others vote for parish-pump politics. They know Joe Bloggs TD is a great lad who helped them get the planning permission through and got a medical card for the mother. So they'll vote for Joe, and when Joe retires they'll vote for his son or daughter, regardless of what the party's politics might be.

If you were to stop individual voters on the street two weeks before the election and ask them what Fianna Fail's policies are on healthcare, job creation, and tax policy, most of them wouldn't have the foggiest notion.

Huntergonzo

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Aontú aren't really left.

Sorta middle of the road, indeed anyone proper left call them far right!.

Socially Aontú are conservative, they split from Sinn Fein over their hardline views on abortion. So in that sense they would be closer to the traditional right not left.

But I don't know what their views are economically I have to admit so I'm not sure how they market themselves.

Lonesomerhodes

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Socially Aontú are conservative, they split from Sinn Fein over their hardline views on abortion. So in that sense they would be closer to the traditional right not left.

But I don't know what their views are economically I have to admit so I'm not sure how they market themselves.

Yep. Aontu wouldn't even call themselves socialist/left.

Well someone else rattling on about you can be left/socialist and pro life.

I'm asking them to give just one example of a openly socialist TD who is openly pro life.

(In Ireland now not America or some other such place!)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I'll be honest with you I get the feeling you may be on either the far left or right given the great offence you seem to have taken to a particular comment I made.

Now I could be wrong of course and if I am so be it but I find it strange how you've gotten such a bee in your bonnet over this.

Ps, I never claimed to 'hate' labels, I said "I'm not a big fan of political labels". Now I have no issue you debating my points (although I'd prefer if you were a bit more open about your own views by giving examples), but please don't make things up to support your arguments.

NO offense, taken I just find it ignorant when poeple assume that they can predict every stance based on your political leaning and then to use derogatory terms to dismiss them.

I also get the impression that you think there are waaaaay more far left/right wing (your distinction) people than there really are.

10000maniacs

carq wrote: »

I dont think a true right wing party would have a chance in ireland.

But i believe there would be a big appetite for a true centre party , centre/right here, similar to conservatives in uk.

Yes, if only to hold FG/FF in check with their leftie anti capitalist nanny state policies.
I mean minimum pricing for alcohol. For gods sake. They are thinking only of their vintner buddies when they legislate for this. Nothing to do with health issues. Sure it was even in the FG manifesto in 2010.
Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

ghost of ireland past

The Minimum Alcohol Pricing fiasco demonstrates just how willing the government are to force through unpopular policies that no-one wants.

Fine Gael are hated by many people. I don't understand why Irish people are willing to put up with Minimum Alcohol Pricing when no-one seemingly wants it. Leo is laughing at the Irish.


Why is the government so out of control?
Because we let them, of course.

Geuze

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Also the idea someone can be openly political left and pro life is absurd. Never met one and know people who were in a Socialist party who were pro life who basically got hounded out of the party due to their pro life beliefs and very sternly asked to leave the party.
So much for tolerance and diversity eh!.

Name one, just one openly socialist/left TD who is pro life for example?.

I suppose Peader Toibin?

Huntergonzo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

NO offense, taken I just find it ignorant when poeple assume that they can predict every stance based on your political leaning and then to use derogatory terms to dismiss them.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree because it looks to me like you have taken offense, but sure look, people aren't always going to agree, that's life.

Again I'm not getting much from you regarding your own beliefs, just nitpicking things I've said and putting words in my mouth to support your argument. Now that could be considered ignorant.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I also get the impression that you think there are waaaaay more far left/right wing (your distinction) people than there really are.

I genuinely have no idea how many there are, I would imagine they are in the minority but I couldn't put a figure on it.

Idbatterim

Good post permbear. On here I’d be seen as right wing , in the states when I chat to people , many would see me as left wing. As there is no right wing in Ireland, people actually have no concept of what it actually is ...

Lonesomerhodes

Geuze wrote: »

I suppose Peader Toibin?

Keep up he's been mentioned and also mentioned that he's not really left so to speak even left a left party due to his views!.

I'm talking lefty party members

Socialist Party
Sinn Fein
People Before Profit
Rise
Solidarity
Labour
Anti Austerity Alliance
Socialist Workers party
Workers Party
Communist party


Still waiting on the poster who said you can be left and pro life to offer one example of a politician this way in Ireland!.

Huntergonzo

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yep. Aontu wouldn't even call themselves socialist/left.

Well someone else rattling on about you can be left/socialist and pro life.

I'm asking them to give just one example of a openly socialist TD who is openly pro life.

(In Ireland now not America or some other such place!)

I can't give you any Irish examples, but I haven't read the manifestos, so there may or may not be a socialist who's anti-choice. I'm not sure what America has to do with this election?

Is abortion that big of an issue for you? I mean again I'm pro-life myself, that's why it was very important to me to get rid of the 8th amendment.

There's a strong possibility that neither myself nor my 3 siblings would have been born if the tyranny of the 8th amendment was in place in the 70s when unfortunately my mother needed a life saving abortion.

peter kern

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Good point, nothing will change.

We need a decent right party in government who will redirect the billions and billions spent on direct provision back to homeless Irish and hospitals.

Otherwise expect the housing crisis to get 10 times worse!

on top off my head I am struggleing to think off a politician that despises homeless people more than victor orban.

Lonesomerhodes

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I can't give you any Irish examples, but I haven't read the manifestos, so there may or may not be a socialist who's anti-choice. I'm not sure what America has to do with this election?

Is abortion that big of an issue for you? I mean again I'm pro-life myself, that's why it was very important to me to get rid of the 8th amendment.

There's a strong possibility that neither myself nor my 3 siblings would have been born if the tyranny of the 8th amendment was in place in the 70s when unfortunately my mother needed a life saving abortion.

Is abortion that big of an issue for you? I mean again I'm pro-life myself, that's why it was very important to me to get rid of the 8th amendment.

Can't make sense of that at all to be honest.


My point to you is you said left or socialist people can be pro life and I'm making the point give me an example of a politician who is, you can't.

Not one socialist or left person will question direct provision or have pro life views, if they did be out of the party in a heartbeat!.

Thus it goes, generally speaking pro life people are conservative or right wing as such.

Sonic_exyouth

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Is abortion that big of an issue for you? I mean again I'm pro-life myself, that's why it was very important to me to get rid of the 8th amendment.

Can't make sense of that at all to be honest.


My point to you is you said left or socialist people can be pro life and I'm making the point give me an example of a politician who is, you can't.

Not one socialist or left person will question direct provision or have pro life views, if they did be out of the party in a heartbeat!.

Thus it goes, generally speaking pro life people are conservative or right wing as such.

Peader Toibin and Aontu are left-leaning, and pro life - it's literally in their opening press conference.

They are more social democrats than socialist, but, still.

Lonesomerhodes

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Peader Toibin and Aontu are left-leaning, and pro life - it's literally in their opening press conference.

They are more social democrats than socialist, but, still.

Well we agree to disagree so.

I don't see them as left, they admit to being conservative and social democrats. Two things alien to the left.

peter kern

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

I'd agree with this.

Hostility to immigration is a vote winner in my view, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. The media are not representative.

Irish people are known to be unwilling to say what they really think, and that's been true for decades if not centuries. Politicians take advantage of that but they would never admit it.

but then if it is like that you would have to bring 80 Million Irish people home . or do you expect other countries to be pro immigrant and kep the irish ? regardless what the number is there is more irish abroad than foreigners in ireland and i guess most irish are aware of this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well we'll have to agree to disagree because it looks to me like you have taken offense, but sure look, people aren't always going to agree, that's life.

Again I'm not getting much from you regarding your own beliefs, just nitpicking things I've said and putting words in my mouth to support your argument. Now that could be considered ignorant.



I genuinely have no idea how many there are, I would imagine they are in the minority but I couldn't put a figure on it.

You haven't asked me about any.

Sonic_exyouth

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Aontú aren't really left.

Sorta middle of the road, indeed anyone proper left call them far right!.

Only people who use the right to abortion as a measuring stick of left-ness.

They are big government social democrats in every other way.
Ecomonic wealth sharing, massive state increase in house building, Pro-Union (seek to make it a constitutional right), increase minimum wage and abolish low hours contracts, pro-smaller farmers and the paradox of pro-green deal .. this is social democrat policy plank

ArmaniJeanss

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Still waiting on the poster who said you can be left and pro life to offer one example of a politician this way in Ireland!.

Peadar Tobin.

Mad_maxx

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes some of the points I had are left wing too shock horror. I'm not saying I'm far right just we have no right alternative.

No conservative Nationalist party that questions immigration or direct provision for example.

Also the idea someone can be openly political left and pro life is absurd. Never met one and know people who were in a Socialist party who were pro life who basically got hounded out of the party due to their pro life beliefs and very sternly asked to leave the party.
So much for tolerance and diversity eh!.

Name one, just one openly socialist/left TD who is pro life for example?.

You assume I'm confused perhaps I am but certainly not as much as you!.

You mention living in America then type 'Most Irish people are smart enough not to want that here'

Here? Where?. Where you live in America?. This is Ireland we're talking about!.

Personally take an Irish Trump over Varadkar any day.

You seem to jump between referencing America and Ireland in your post which makes your good self seem as confused as Scooby Doo.

My mother is a devout pro life Catholic

Economically she is hard left as she grew up poor and believes everyone should have the same, she lives in peadar toibins constituency and is going to vote aointu, she has the politics of classic Catholicism

Right wing socially

Left wing economically

They are out there and traditionally voted FF